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Post by hal on Dec 9, 2021 6:58:38 GMT -4
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 9, 2021 8:23:50 GMT -4
I don't see a benefit to moving a team to Quebec. It won't grow the league revenue just add another piece to the same pie. Houston is a huge untapped market. The issue I have with Phoenix is, you don't know if it's a viable NHL market or not because of all the dysfunction on and off the ice. Las Vegas showed up and had immediate success and the fans supported it, Phoenix has been struggling on the ice almost from day 1 plus the 8 ownership changes have not helped as well. |
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Post by hal on Dec 9, 2021 8:33:49 GMT -4
I don't see a benefit to moving a team to Quebec. It won't grow the league revenue just add another piece to the same pie. Houston is a huge untapped market. The issue I have with Phoenix is, you don't know if it's a viable NHL market or not because of all the dysfunction on and off the ice. Las Vegas showed up and had immediate success and the fans supported it, Phoenix has been struggling on the ice almost from day 1 plus the 8 ownership changes have not helped as well. All good Points .......that tell you that The Coyotes have had more then enough chances . I would love to see the Nordiques back in the NHL but hey a success in Houston would be good too .....but the Coyotes don't deserve the Benefit of the Doubt Again . |
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Post by bois on Dec 9, 2021 9:22:36 GMT -4
gonna make a good 30 in 30 someday
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Post by jimmy on Dec 9, 2021 9:54:13 GMT -4
gonna make a good 30 in 30 someday While Bettman has been publicly supportive, and no doubt reluctant to write off the Phoenix market as a mistake, he also runs a tight ship, and I would be willing to bet he was not pleased at the most recent news coming out about unpaid bills and threatened eviction. Would not be one bit surprised if the Coyotes quick attempt to save face, blaming human error and promising to pay in full ASAP, wasn't a result of Bettman tearing a strip off ownership and threatening them in some way to make it good or else. I am sure behind closed doors he is running out of patience with the repeated off-ice drama from that franchise. |
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Post by scotiahockey on Dec 9, 2021 11:31:39 GMT -4
I don't see a benefit to moving a team to Quebec. It won't grow the league revenue just add another piece to the same pie. Houston is a huge untapped market. The issue I have with Phoenix is, you don't know if it's a viable NHL market or not because of all the dysfunction on and off the ice. Las Vegas showed up and had immediate success and the fans supported it, Phoenix has been struggling on the ice almost from day 1 plus the 8 ownership changes have not helped as well. It’s hard to say if they’re an NHL viable market like you said because they’re such a shit show on the ice, that part is undeniable. I’m in the same camp as you, with regards to moving a team to Quebec, it doesn’t make any sense, it really doesn’t add anything to the league/help grow the game. While the Coyotes have been a shit show, one thing that’s unequivocally true is that having a team there has grown the game. We’ve been blessed with one of the premier NHLers and goal scorers, there’s been multiple high round picks in the NHL draft, a lot more kids that were drafted or gone onto play in the WHL/NCAA and an NCAA team in a market where you’d never expect them. It’s taken 20-25 years but we’re finally starting to reap the benefit of going into an unknown market by churning out NHLers/CHLers/NCAA guys who probably otherwise don’t play hockey. I think that’s a huge success and one the league can be proud of. That was sort of the whole goal of having a team in some of these markets that don’t become viable. Maybe the on-ice product hasn’t always been the greatest but you’ve gotten some of these top athletes, who would have played other sports hooked on hockey. They’ve added so much to the game that I think I would call the move to Arizona a success, despite the lack of on-ice success from the NHL team. The impact they’ve had on hockey goes deeper then the NHL. That’s why I don’t think putting a team in Quebec makes sense, they have a team already. The kids there play hockey already, they’re not going to grow the market or add to the game. Houston might be a great combination of untapped potential NHL talent and a viable enough market to be a success on the ice/to the leagues bottom line. If you’re moving teams, for me, you either need to be a market that has untapped revenue at the NHL level, like Winnipeg who had no team close and would be a success from a fan engagement perspective or a market where you can tap into a pool of talent who otherwise wouldn’t have been interested in the sport, ideally you find some combination of the two. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 9, 2021 11:35:54 GMT -4
Thank Gary for Auston Matthews for me. Fuck the finances...wasn't my money.  It's just unfortunate the same measures were not taken when Canada was in a tough time in the 90's. 5 years of some juggling in Winnipeg and Quebec might have saved both. It's been 25 years of it in Arizona. People are right to hold Gary's feet to the fire for it. But there's a weird obsession over it as if moving them fixes all the wrongs in the league. |
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Post by MikeC on Dec 9, 2021 15:05:15 GMT -4
Not every team has to be in a market only to "grow the game". Otherwise why have any teams in traditional hockey markets? You want teams in markets where they will be the most successful.
Success has many metrics, but in pro sports franchise value is a good one.
If Quebec were to get a team, I'm sure they would be more successful financially than Arizona, which is dead last in franchise value. My guess is Quebec would be on par with Winnipeg, which is still in the bottom third of the league, but still nearly 50% better than Arizona.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 9, 2021 17:18:11 GMT -4
Thank Gary for Auston Matthews for me. Fuck the finances...wasn't my money. It's just unfortunate the same measures were not taken when Canada was in a tough time in the 90's. 5 years of some juggling in Winnipeg and Quebec might have saved both. It's been 25 years of it in Arizona. People are right to hold Gary's feet to the fire for it. But there's a weird obsession over it as if moving them fixes all the wrongs in the league. The main issue in Quebec and Winnipeg was the Canadian dollar was at like 65 cents US, plus you had no cap so teams like NY Detroit Colorado and others were signing all the big name FA. |
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Post by hal on Dec 10, 2021 21:52:43 GMT -4
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Post by hal on May 16, 2023 8:18:33 GMT -4
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on May 16, 2023 9:00:32 GMT -4
Referendum (referenda) is the worst way to manage public policy let alone development. You will end up with a split 50/50, 55/45, 51/49 or 60/40 still significant dissent on every issue. No matter what it is.
You will always have a nay side to every issue.
Especially anything with land (development) or taxes. Those who purport we should have referendum for everything devalue the whole point of elected representatives. They are supposed to tell you what they want to do and we vote on that mandate.
If every decision went to referendum you wouldnt have stadiuns, bridges, wider highways, bike lanes, subways, most developments, and anything which raised any levy you can always find 50% opposed because it doesnt benefit them directly. Most of society will never understand the big picture enough to really be able to vote yes. Its easier to say no. And kick problems down the road.
Sadly Arizona past political types were too scared to stand by decisions and came up with this wash my hands style of governance which in law makes it required.
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Post by hal on May 17, 2023 9:37:22 GMT -4
The New Arena Project was Voted Down ............The Weasel is about to come up with a New Plan .......Plan K , The first 10 all failed but Try Try Again Gary .....What a Joke .
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 17, 2023 9:45:48 GMT -4
The New Arena Project was Voted Down ............The Weasel is about to come up with a New Plan .......Plan K , The first 10 all failed but Try Try Again Gary .....What a Joke . The sad part is, if you put a team like LV there with that arena and owner, the team would be doing great. Phoenix is a huge market with lots of transplanted northerners who would support hockey, but they have mostly had shitty teams, uncertain area situations and shitty owners...that wouldn't thrive anywhere. |
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Post by hal on May 17, 2023 10:06:48 GMT -4
Sportsnet just reported that there has been 7 Bankruptcies filed since they moved there and almost as many Arena Plans Voted Down . Kansas City , Houston and Salt Lake City are considered the Front Runners if The Weasel is finally convinced that Enough is Enough . Geography is that what is Hurting Quebec's Chances ?
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