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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 27, 2022 12:26:31 GMT -4
Couldnt agree more. A guy like Soto becomes available and people hesitate to throw in top prospects as if they're all future all stars when the history of the sport is generally prospects rarely reaching their ceiling and add in injury factor in pitching and its mostly a crap shoot when it comes to farm systems. The issue with a guy like Soto is, as good as he is, he is a corner OF, which limits how much he can impact a game. Whoever trades for him will have to throw around 400M his way over 10 years and still have to give up 3 of their 5 best prospects. Perospect in baseball are similar to hockey, yes they don't all work out, but guys that are top 5 on a team like LA(or another with a strong farm system) have a more than 60% chance at being MLB regulars. Those guys you get to keep for 6 years at a lower rate, very cheap for those not Arb eligible(700k-1M). You can't win in MLB with a bunch of guys making 20-40M alone, you run out of money very quick. Winning teams like LA and NY have deep pockets but also a strong farm system supplying cheap talent to fill out the second half of the core. www.spotrac.com/mlb/new-york-yankees/payroll/NY for example has cheaper guys like Cortes Loaisga Luetege King Holmes Taillon Montgomery Torres IKF Carpenter Higashioka Trevino, those are all good or great contributors at under 10M/year...some are from the farm system, others reclamation projects that they helped make productive players out of. The Angels are the poster child for being top heavy with big stars and not being a good team. They are at the other extreme. There are times to take swings at a rental or at a younger guy with term, but it's not the no brainer you guys are making it seem. Even for very deep pocketed teams, big salaries and prospects are not in infinite supply. You get him for 3 playoff runs. Use him for 2 and trade him and get some assets back. Overpay now...take 2 shots at winning...get something back later. If I'm a Toronto I want to win while my guys are not all getting paid and can afford to take the risk. If i'm Boston...it probably makes less sense without the long term commitment. For a Toronto giving up the prospects is a no brainer. They ripped Anthopolous in 2015 for moving Hoffman, Norris, and Boyd 3 weeks after he signed Vladdy as a 16yr old free agent. Nobody is saying prospects have no value...but for teams in position to try and win they're a no brainer to give up for elite talent for today because of the volatility in their development. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 27, 2022 12:47:55 GMT -4
The issue with a guy like Soto is, as good as he is, he is a corner OF, which limits how much he can impact a game. Whoever trades for him will have to throw around 400M his way over 10 years and still have to give up 3 of their 5 best prospects. Perospect in baseball are similar to hockey, yes they don't all work out, but guys that are top 5 on a team like LA(or another with a strong farm system) have a more than 60% chance at being MLB regulars. Those guys you get to keep for 6 years at a lower rate, very cheap for those not Arb eligible(700k-1M). You can't win in MLB with a bunch of guys making 20-40M alone, you run out of money very quick. Winning teams like LA and NY have deep pockets but also a strong farm system supplying cheap talent to fill out the second half of the core. www.spotrac.com/mlb/new-york-yankees/payroll/NY for example has cheaper guys like Cortes Loaisga Luetege King Holmes Taillon Montgomery Torres IKF Carpenter Higashioka Trevino, those are all good or great contributors at under 10M/year...some are from the farm system, others reclamation projects that they helped make productive players out of. The Angels are the poster child for being top heavy with big stars and not being a good team. They are at the other extreme. There are times to take swings at a rental or at a younger guy with term, but it's not the no brainer you guys are making it seem. Even for very deep pocketed teams, big salaries and prospects are not in infinite supply. You get him for 3 playoff runs. Use him for 2 and trade him and get some assets back. Overpay now...take 2 shots at winning...get something back later. If I'm a Toronto I want to win while my guys are not all getting paid and can afford to take the risk. If i'm Boston...it probably makes less sense without the long term commitment. For a Toronto giving up the prospects is a no brainer. They ripped Anthopolous in 2015 for moving Hoffman, Norris, and Boyd 3 weeks after he signed Vladdy as a 16yr old free agent. Nobody is saying prospects have no value...but for teams in position to try and win they're a no brainer to give up for elite talent for today because of the volatility in their development. For your Toronto example, even if you get Soto for 3 years, you give up 3 top 5 prospects and you still need 3 pretty high end pitchers as the pitching depth is nowhere near championship level. Toronto would be better off going all in by adding 3 good pitchers and a depth bat... For a team with stronger pitching that needs a major bat, I can see your Soto logic making sense though. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 27, 2022 13:03:13 GMT -4
You get him for 3 playoff runs. Use him for 2 and trade him and get some assets back. Overpay now...take 2 shots at winning...get something back later. If I'm a Toronto I want to win while my guys are not all getting paid and can afford to take the risk. If i'm Boston...it probably makes less sense without the long term commitment. For a Toronto giving up the prospects is a no brainer. They ripped Anthopolous in 2015 for moving Hoffman, Norris, and Boyd 3 weeks after he signed Vladdy as a 16yr old free agent. Nobody is saying prospects have no value...but for teams in position to try and win they're a no brainer to give up for elite talent for today because of the volatility in their development. For your Toronto example, even if you get Soto for 3 years, you give up 3 top 5 prospects and you still need 3 pretty high end pitchers as the pitching depth is nowhere near championship level. Toronto would be better off going all in by adding 3 good pitchers and a depth bat... For a team with stronger pitching that needs a major bat, I can see your Soto logic making sense though. They need a couple of bullpen arms and a #3/4 starter. Stripling is perfect as as playoff reliever/starter where you need him. Manoah, Gausmann, Berrios a great 3 to enter a series with. Bullpen arms and depth bats are usual adds for a contender. When you have a Moreno with Kirk and Janssen you can afford to make a splash and trade from a position of strength to fill some of those holes. The types of assets Toronto can trade are not what you acquire depth with though...thats why making a splash makes sense if it can fill a hole or upgrade somewhere else. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 27, 2022 13:15:09 GMT -4
For your Toronto example, even if you get Soto for 3 years, you give up 3 top 5 prospects and you still need 3 pretty high end pitchers as the pitching depth is nowhere near championship level. Toronto would be better off going all in by adding 3 good pitchers and a depth bat... For a team with stronger pitching that needs a major bat, I can see your Soto logic making sense though. They need a couple of bullpen arms and a #3/4 starter. Stripling is perfect as as playoff reliever/starter where you need him. Manoah, Gausmann, Berrios a great 3 to enter a series with. Bullpen arms and depth bats are usual adds for a contender. When you have a Moreno with Kirk and Janssen you can afford to make a splash and trade from a position of strength to fill some of those holes. The types of assets Toronto can trade are not what you acquire depth with though...thats why making a splash makes sense if it can fill a hole or upgrade somewhere else. If you want to beat NY and Houston you will need a high end RP and a top starter. Berrios has been struggling and has been up and down. Manoah is at approaching his career high in innings with basically 3 months of ball left if you want to go all the way, you have to assume they will skip him a few times so he doesn't blow out. Going from 130 innings to 220 in a year is a recipe for a shoulder or elbow injury. In terms of the pen, in order to play with the big dogs, they need a high end RP, not a 6th inning guy. A high end guy who can close or be a high leverage guy vs the middle of a strong lineup. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 27, 2022 13:27:14 GMT -4
They need a couple of bullpen arms and a #3/4 starter. Stripling is perfect as as playoff reliever/starter where you need him. Manoah, Gausmann, Berrios a great 3 to enter a series with. Bullpen arms and depth bats are usual adds for a contender. When you have a Moreno with Kirk and Janssen you can afford to make a splash and trade from a position of strength to fill some of those holes. The types of assets Toronto can trade are not what you acquire depth with though...thats why making a splash makes sense if it can fill a hole or upgrade somewhere else. If you want to beat NY and Houston you will need a high end RP and a top starter. Berrios has been struggling and has been up and down. Manoah is at approaching his career high in innings with basically 3 months of ball left if you want to go all the way, you have to assume they will skip him a few times so he doesn't blow out. Going from 130 innings to 220 in a year is a recipe for a shoulder or elbow injury. In terms of the pen, in order to play with the big dogs, they need a high end RP, not a 6th inning guy. A high end guy who can close or be a high leverage guy vs the middle of a strong lineup. They have a high end guy to close. Its the high leverage 7th/8th inning guy they need and that usually can be found on the trade market this time of year and not cost a top 3-5 prospect. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 27, 2022 13:37:33 GMT -4
If you want to beat NY and Houston you will need a high end RP and a top starter. Berrios has been struggling and has been up and down. Manoah is at approaching his career high in innings with basically 3 months of ball left if you want to go all the way, you have to assume they will skip him a few times so he doesn't blow out. Going from 130 innings to 220 in a year is a recipe for a shoulder or elbow injury. In terms of the pen, in order to play with the big dogs, they need a high end RP, not a 6th inning guy. A high end guy who can close or be a high leverage guy vs the middle of a strong lineup. They have a high end guy to close. Its the high leverage 7th/8th inning guy they need and that usually can be found on the trade market this time of year and not cost a top 3-5 prospect. Same difference, most top teams have at least 2 dominant guys with one closing and the other facing the middle of the lineup late...Minter/Jansen Chpaman/Holmes/Loaizga Montero/Pressley |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 4, 2022 8:48:12 GMT -4
Quite a confusing trade deadline for the RS. Chaim doesn't seem to have a plan, they moved their starting catcher but kept Eovaldi JDM Wacha etc. i prefer a clear plan and execution.
The Hosmer trade alone is great, they basically got him for nothing and SD is paying almost his whole salary, he'll either be a cheap 1B option if Casas isn't ready or a good trade asset.
I know they still have a shot at a playoff spot and these moves globally may look good later, but right now it sounds confusing and baffling.
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Post by bois on Aug 4, 2022 10:14:34 GMT -4
it's idiotic
i strongly dislike this Chaim guy
give me back big market baseball
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 4, 2022 11:30:37 GMT -4
it's idiotic i strongly dislike this Chaim guy give me back big market baseball They are a big spender, so that's not the issue. |
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Post by Mika on Aug 5, 2022 8:34:57 GMT -4
I don't understand releasing JBJ, there must've been a team out there that would've traded for him. Defensively he's a great outfielder. I get his bat has been rather cold the last couple years, a change of scenery easily could fix that though.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 8, 2022 8:00:14 GMT -4
I don't understand releasing JBJ, there must've been a team out there that would've traded for him. Defensively he's a great outfielder. I get his bat has been rather cold the last couple years, a change of scenery easily could fix that though. He didn't hit in Milwaukee either. I think somebody will pick him up once the release is done and they only have to pay him league minimum. He was making around 10M +-, so nobody wanted to be on the hook for 4M over 2 months. |
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Post by bois on Aug 9, 2022 11:30:21 GMT -4
Sale breaks his wrist biking
what a great investment... gave us like 20 innings the past two years
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Post by Mika on Aug 15, 2022 9:56:55 GMT -4
Lose 3 of 4 to the Royals then go 2-1 vs the Yankees. God this has got to be the most bipolar team in the league this year.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 15, 2022 10:08:42 GMT -4
Lose 3 of 4 to the Royals then go 2-1 vs the Yankees. God this has got to be the most bipolar team in the league this year. KC is playing better than NY the last 6-7 weeks. main issue for the RS right now is their 5 highest paid hitters are either out(Hernandez and StorY0 or not playing up to potential(Devers Hernandez and Bogaerts). |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 17, 2022 13:28:23 GMT -4
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