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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 10:08:06 GMT -4
With the trading period coming up I figured I would start the thread even if it a couple weeks or so away so we can discuss what we feel should happen SELL, what trades Cam ends up making, what else is going on the Q during the period.
IMO this is a perfect opportunity with the assets the Mooseheads have, with the Memorial Cup being held in Quebec City and with no clearcut favorite to win the league at least so far for Cam to fasttrack the rebuild. Yes, the Mooseheads will be a very poor team in the second half if there is an all-out sell but with the Mooseheads losing so many key players which do have trade value and not being a viable contender this year it only makes sense to sell. If the Mooseheads don't sell and end up standing pat then don't expect a contending team until at least 2017 or 2018.
Discuss.
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Post by Gman on Nov 26, 2014 10:14:42 GMT -4
You'd be surprised at the number of people who think the Mooseheads have a competitive team this year. It's quite astonishing, and it makes me wonder if they know anything about junior hockey at all, but they are out there- trust me. This recent hot streak is only adding to the belief unfortunately, but a smart GM would not let a couple of wins against better opponents sway their decisions. Cam has never been a seller, so I don't expect him to hit any home runs, but he needs to place appropriate value on his players and work towards getting that value. I'd be happy with a very future loaded trade where we don't see the return until next year. Not sure if Rimouski would part with Simon Bourque, but after their meltdown Saturday night, it was obvious they need an upgrade on goaltending, and a Fucale now for Bourque next year would be a good start.
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Post by mooseinfo on Nov 26, 2014 10:27:19 GMT -4
You'd be surprised at the number of people who think the Mooseheads have a competitive team this year. It's quite astonishing, and it makes me wonder if they know anything about junior hockey at all, but they are out there- trust me. This recent hot streak is only adding to the belief unfortunately, but a smart GM would not let a couple of wins against better opponents sway their decisions. Cam has never been a seller, so I don't expect him to hit any home runs, but he needs to place appropriate value on his players and work towards getting that value. I'd be happy with a very future loaded trade where we don't see the return until next year. Not sure if Rimouski would part with Simon Bourque, but after their meltdown Saturday night, it was obvious they need an upgrade on goaltending, and a Fucale now for Bourque next year would be a good start. Both those wins had a lot to do with bad goaltending by the other teams. Moose played well but at least the Moncton game may have gone the other way if the pulled backup did not start. Like you say GM has to look past recent improvement at the bigger picture. Perhaps trades are already on paper.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 10:30:31 GMT -4
You'd be surprised at the number of people who think the Mooseheads have a competitive team this year. It's quite astonishing, and it makes me wonder if they know anything about junior hockey at all, but they are out there- trust me. This recent hot streak is only adding to the belief unfortunately, but a smart GM would not let a couple of wins against better opponents sway their decisions. Cam has never been a seller, so I don't expect him to hit any home runs, but he needs to place appropriate value on his players and work towards getting that value. I'd be happy with a very future loaded trade where we don't see the return until next year. Not sure if Rimouski would part with Simon Bourque, but after their meltdown Saturday night, it was obvious they need an upgrade on goaltending, and a Fucale now for Bourque next year would be a good start. That 8-2 win over Rimouski comes down to goaltending. Halifax got it from Fucale; Riki had a 9-3 SOG edge with some pretty good scoring opportunities in the first until Ehlers got a goal Desrosiers should have stopped. Fucale has always been a better goaltender than Desrosiers- only reason Desrosiers was on the Quebec Canada Games team over Fucale 4 years ago was politics.
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Post by Jacques Strap on Nov 26, 2014 11:16:37 GMT -4
So these are the guys that are possibly on the block.
Fucale Gadoury Murphy Hardie Ehlers?
Ehlers would be a bit of a stretch. Can't see the Mooseheads trading both Hardie and Murphy, maybe only if the get a filler on D coming back. Gadoury would be a great chip if GM's see the big picture on him and not just his play this year. If we traded the majority of these guys, I don't see how we don't finish in the bottom three. I am really hoping for a SELL for a quicker turnaround. It seems like every team, maybe except for Bathurst, knows when to Sell. Not sure why the Moosheads have a hard time figuring it out.
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Post by Gman on Nov 26, 2014 11:32:18 GMT -4
So these are the guys that are possibly on the block. Fucale Gadoury Murphy Hardie Ehlers? Ehlers would be a bit of a stretch. Can't see the Mooseheads trading both Hardie and Murphy, maybe only if the get a filler on D coming back. Gadoury would be a great chip if GM's see the big picture on him and not just his play this year. If we traded the majority of these guys, I don't see how we don't finish in the bottom three. I am really hoping for a SELL for a quicker turnaround. It seems like every team, maybe except for Bathurst, knows when to Sell. Not sure why the Moosheads have a hard time figuring it out. Gotta have players other teams want. Russell has not had that luxury during a down year. When he took over as GM, the first few years were stripped bare from the 2008 Marchand debacle, as well as no good returning vets. He literally had nothing of value to trade for 3 years. In year 4, the upswing started with Mackinnon, Drouin, etc, so he certainly wasn't going to sell then- plus his best players were 16. The next 2 years they were contenders. This is really the first year where the team should sell, and has 19-20's that other teams would want.
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Post by bois on Nov 26, 2014 11:38:31 GMT -4
So these are the guys that are possibly on the block. Fucale Gadoury Murphy Hardie Ehlers? Ehlers would be a bit of a stretch. Can't see the Mooseheads trading both Hardie and Murphy, maybe only if the get a filler on D coming back. Gadoury would be a great chip if GM's see the big picture on him and not just his play this year. If we traded the majority of these guys, I don't see how we don't finish in the bottom three. I am really hoping for a SELL for a quicker turnaround. It seems like every team, maybe except for Bathurst, knows when to Sell. Not sure why the Moosheads have a hard time figuring it out. Gotta have players other teams want. Russell has not had that luxury during a down year. When he took over as GM, the first few years were stripped bare from the 2008 Marchand debacle, as well as no good returning vets. He literally had nothing of value to trade for 3 years. In year 4, the upswing started with Mackinnon, Drouin, etc, so he certainly wasn't going to sell then- plus his best players were 16. The next 2 years they were contenders. This is really the first year where the team should sell, and has 19-20's that other teams would want. you really don't have many 19's that other teams would want.... and with 20's it's a weird market to try and move them...... Euros also harder to move than in years past
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:52:00 GMT -4
So these are the guys that are possibly on the block. Fucale Gadoury Murphy Hardie Ehlers? Ehlers would be a bit of a stretch. Can't see the Mooseheads trading both Hardie and Murphy, maybe only if the get a filler on D coming back. Gadoury would be a great chip if GM's see the big picture on him and not just his play this year. If we traded the majority of these guys, I don't see how we don't finish in the bottom three. I am really hoping for a SELL for a quicker turnaround. It seems like every team, maybe except for Bathurst, knows when to Sell. Not sure why the Moosheads have a hard time figuring it out. Cam does know though- keep in mind it was he who traded Gabriel O'Connor to RN for the 1st rounder who became Brent Andrews. He also traded guys such as Alexander Brunet, MCT for picks and also managed assets by trading Jamie Bishop and Alex Lemieux for 3 round picks rather than doing the Patenaude and keeping them for depth and running out of time to get value for them. The reason why the Mooseheads were able to trade up to get Drouin and then trade for Mackinnon a month later in 2011 was because Cam did trade away guys for picks in the down years of 2009 and 2010. He just didn't have all that many assets to trade away as compared to now and we all know what Patenaude did to the franchise so it just seems like the Mooseheads never sell.
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Post by Citris on Nov 26, 2014 12:25:27 GMT -4
Cam does know though- keep in mind it was he who traded Gabriel O'Connor to RN for the 1st rounder who became Brent Andrews. He also traded guys such as Alexander Brunet, MCT for picks and also managed assets by trading Jamie Bishop and Alex Lemieux for 3 round picks rather than doing the Patenaude and keeping them for depth and running out of time to get value for them. The reason why the Mooseheads were able to trade up to get Drouin and then trade for Mackinnon a month later in 2011 was because Cam did trade away guys for picks in the down years of 2009 and 2010. He just didn't have all that many assets to trade away as compared to now and we all know what Patenaude did to the franchise so it just seems like the Mooseheads never sell. Which is why earlier I bought up guys like Leblanc and Vuic. Those guys could fetch 3rd round picks each pretty easily I'd say. While it hurts us now, 2 extra 3rds to work with in the next draft is pretty huge for 2 guys who won't be back next season. That or younger players. I'm not saying we should actively be looking for that deal, but if somebody picks up the phone and makes a call on one of them, I don't think Cam wouldn't be willing to work something out.
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Post by Gman on Nov 26, 2014 13:22:38 GMT -4
Gotta have players other teams want. Russell has not had that luxury during a down year. When he took over as GM, the first few years were stripped bare from the 2008 Marchand debacle, as well as no good returning vets. He literally had nothing of value to trade for 3 years. In year 4, the upswing started with Mackinnon, Drouin, etc, so he certainly wasn't going to sell then- plus his best players were 16. The next 2 years they were contenders. This is really the first year where the team should sell, and has 19-20's that other teams would want. you really don't have many 19's that other teams would want.... and with 20's it's a weird market to try and move them No, not many- where did I say we had "many"? If we are strictly talking about players who could bring in a good return, there's probably only Fucale and Murphy, but that is more than they had through the lean years. The point I'm trying to make is that ideally when a team's competitive years run their course, it's great to have a few assets to sell off to speed up the rebuild. Halifax has never had that, but now they do. Gadoury could, and should be worth a really good asset as well, but it depends on who is buying.
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Post by Critical Eye on Nov 26, 2014 13:23:22 GMT -4
So these are the guys that are possibly on the block. Fucale Gadoury Murphy Hardie Ehlers? In past discussion people have said both Gadoury and Ehlers have no trade 'agreements'. Does anyone know if this is true?
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch on Nov 26, 2014 13:28:26 GMT -4
Cam does know though- keep in mind it was he who traded Gabriel O'Connor to RN for the 1st rounder who became Brent Andrews. He also traded guys such as Alexander Brunet, MCT for picks and also managed assets by trading Jamie Bishop and Alex Lemieux for 3 round picks rather than doing the Patenaude and keeping them for depth and running out of time to get value for them. The reason why the Mooseheads were able to trade up to get Drouin and then trade for Mackinnon a month later in 2011 was because Cam did trade away guys for picks in the down years of 2009 and 2010. He just didn't have all that many assets to trade away as compared to now and we all know what Patenaude did to the franchise so it just seems like the Mooseheads never sell. Which is why earlier I bought up guys like Leblanc and Vuic. Those guys could fetch 3rd round picks each pretty easily I'd say. While it hurts us now, 2 extra 3rds to work with in the next draft is pretty huge for 2 guys who won't be back next season. That or younger players. I'm not saying we should actively be looking for that deal, but if somebody picks up the phone and makes a call on one of them, I don't think Cam wouldn't be willing to work something out. I don't think anyone would pay a third for Vuic. He's not that good a fighter and with the legal thing hanging over him teams will look elsewell unless he's dirt cheap but he's not worth a third. Leblanc would be a fourth liner on a contender, would a contender spend a third on a fourth liner?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 26, 2014 13:34:09 GMT -4
With the trading period coming up I figured I would start the thread even if it a couple weeks or so away so we can discuss what we feel should happen SELL, what trades Cam ends up making, what else is going on the Q during the period. IMO this is a perfect opportunity with the assets the Mooseheads have, with the Memorial Cup being held in Quebec City and with no clearcut favorite to win the league at least so far for Cam to fasttrack the rebuild. Yes, the Mooseheads will be a very poor team in the second half if there is an all-out sell but with the Mooseheads losing so many key players which do have trade value and not being a viable contender this year it only makes sense to sell. If the Mooseheads don't sell and end up standing pat then don't expect a contending team until at least 2017 or 2018. Discuss. Rimouski seems like the clear cut favorite. They have a great record despite missing 2 of their best guys for most games(17 combined games after 27).
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 26, 2014 13:35:45 GMT -4
You'd be surprised at the number of people who think the Mooseheads have a competitive team this year. It's quite astonishing, and it makes me wonder if they know anything about junior hockey at all, but they are out there- trust me. This recent hot streak is only adding to the belief unfortunately, but a smart GM would not let a couple of wins against better opponents sway their decisions. Cam has never been a seller, so I don't expect him to hit any home runs, but he needs to place appropriate value on his players and work towards getting that value. I'd be happy with a very future loaded trade where we don't see the return until next year. Not sure if Rimouski would part with Simon Bourque, but after their meltdown Saturday night, it was obvious they need an upgrade on goaltending, and a Fucale now for Bourque next year would be a good start. Rimouski has Desrosiers, I doubt they are too concerned about goaltending. Their GAA will improve with Morin and Gauthier back. They could probably use another top 4 D and a 2 way 3rd liner.
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Post by Citris on Nov 26, 2014 13:38:06 GMT -4
I don't think anyone would pay a third for Vuic. He's not that good a fighter and with the legal thing hanging over him teams will look elsewell unless he's dirt cheap but he's not worth a third. Leblanc would be a fourth liner on a contender, would a contender spend a third on a fourth liner? Maybe I'm overvaluing them a tad, looking at some of the other trades that have happened this season, it seems unlikely that we'll land a 3rd unless prices are inflated significantly. Regardless, extra picks don't hurt for sure.
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