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Trump
Nov 26, 2020 10:31:51 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 26, 2020 10:31:51 GMT -4
"The tribal nature of politics is exactly why Trump got 70M+ votes, he is a horrible candidate with even more horrible policies, but they vote for him anyways just to spite the other side." ---- According to the exit polls from CNN evaluating who voted. Trumps 'share' if the vote went up with all the demographics except white males. It went up with all black voters, all hispanic, Male and female over 2016. Can make the argument he had a chance if he could have held his white males (it went down with that group). He still lost so I think him being a horrible candidate is why. The exit poll also said that only 1 in 5 voters said they are personally worse off than in 2016. So usually in elections they dont vote out the incumbent in that situation. Brass tax is some racists did worse and didnt like Trump or his policy so it contributed to his loss. Some who should be most repulsed by Trump - black women for example still voted for him and some did not vote him when Hillary ran. Some vote for spite but this time all indications are he lost the election. Republicans would have won in those conditions in any other year. Again it's not as cut and clear why people vote but it's more complicated than people suggest here. Always is. Trump lost the election. Some are happy about that. Some are fine with it. Some wanted him to lose but are concerned still it may be a bad thing for the economy, etc. Some are very upset he lost. Some want revenge. And some want the past administration charged with crimes. Democracy. You can have an opinion on this. all you're saying is assuming that you have informed voters. A major issue in US politics is disinformation, Faux news basically makes billions on pretending reality is not really reality. Rupert Murdock has turned news into reality TV and created a monster, now the MAGA crowd thinks they are not radical enough and turning to OAN and Newsmax. The Qanon fantasy world is right up the same alley. Never before in US(or any other country) politics has there been so much fake news pumped through social media, mostly Facebook, who like Murdock love the profits and have no issue spreading lies and false propaganda. Look no further than patients in South Dakota dying and telling the doctors and nurses that they CAN'T be dying from Covid because it's fake!!! All this shows me is that a large portion of population is not engaged and easily swayed by good PR or their social media. They dont need facts to come to conclusions. They follow whichever train speaks what they want to believe. Even in Canada. My niece is a nurse in Regina. The stories I hear and stories of just ignorance. Its rampant out there. The people in line at Costco arent any different than the people in South Dakota. Stupid is everywhere. It's not a US only problem. People are as misinformed and unlikely to follow authority in Canada too. I used to think 50% of people were ignorant or dumb. I now think its above 70%. We are mostly led in our convictions by those around us. The people who study (their life dedication) and know the most about what they do. Are ignored and debated by people who couldnt spell words like epidemiology if their life depended on it.
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Trump
Nov 26, 2020 11:04:34 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 26, 2020 11:04:34 GMT -4
all you're saying is assuming that you have informed voters. A major issue in US politics is disinformation, Faux news basically makes billions on pretending reality is not really reality. Rupert Murdock has turned news into reality TV and created a monster, now the MAGA crowd thinks they are not radical enough and turning to OAN and Newsmax. The Qanon fantasy world is right up the same alley. Never before in US(or any other country) politics has there been so much fake news pumped through social media, mostly Facebook, who like Murdock love the profits and have no issue spreading lies and false propaganda. Look no further than patients in South Dakota dying and telling the doctors and nurses that they CAN'T be dying from Covid because it's fake!!! All this shows me is that a large portion of population is not engaged and easily swayed by good PR or their social media. They dont need facts to come to conclusions. They follow whichever train speaks what they want to believe. Even in Canada. My niece is a nurse in Regina. The stories I hear and stories of just ignorance. Its rampant out there. The people in line at Costco arent any different than the people in South Dakota. Stupid is everywhere. It's not a US only problem. People are as misinformed and unlikely to follow authority in Canada too. I used to think 50% of people were ignorant or dumb. I now think its above 70%. We are mostly led in our convictions by those around us. The people who study (their life dedication) and know the most about what they do. Are ignored and debated by people who couldnt spell words like epidemiology if their life depended on it. I think the problem is not people NOT being informed, it's major sources of information("news" outlets, social media) INTENTIONALLY spreading false information. There have always been and will always be uniformed people, but right now the problems go a lot deeper than that in the MAGA crowd in the US and a small portion of similar folks in Canada. It's similar to anti vaxers, it's not taht they are uninformed, it's that they got their info from bad sources.
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Trump
Nov 26, 2020 13:22:02 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 26, 2020 13:22:02 GMT -4
All this shows me is that a large portion of population is not engaged and easily swayed by good PR or their social media. They dont need facts to come to conclusions. They follow whichever train speaks what they want to believe. Even in Canada. My niece is a nurse in Regina. The stories I hear and stories of just ignorance. Its rampant out there. The people in line at Costco arent any different than the people in South Dakota. Stupid is everywhere. It's not a US only problem. People are as misinformed and unlikely to follow authority in Canada too. I used to think 50% of people were ignorant or dumb. I now think its above 70%. We are mostly led in our convictions by those around us. The people who study (their life dedication) and know the most about what they do. Are ignored and debated by people who couldnt spell words like epidemiology if their life depended on it. I think the problem is not people NOT being informed, it's major sources of information("news" outlets, social media) INTENTIONALLY spreading false information. There have always been and will always be uniformed people, but right now the problems go a lot deeper than that in the MAGA crowd in the US and a small portion of similar folks in Canada. It's similar to anti vaxers, it's not taht they are uninformed, it's that they got their info from bad sources. People will believe what is convenient for them to believe. I hear the same things in the local area as I see on news regarding Covid and significant part of population not taking it serious. It's not a small portion here. Except here they equally disdain for all ends on political spectrum. People generally dont trust their leaders, authority figures or the system in place that is supposed to govern them. Those days are long gone. Also people like to criticize them (leaders, people in positions of authority, etc) but never offer themselves (or their smartest kin folk) up to run for the positions. They wont because they dont want to be one of them, and if they put any thought into it will probably realize their lack of qualification. The media is not as influential as it used to be. News media is dying off. The internet and blogs of every stripe are taking their audience, their space and even their best people. The ones left dont have the ability to get relevant truth out beyond the noise. Its influence has eroded to a point where much of its credibility is gone. People get "their news" and "their opinions" on their own now from a sprinkling of sources. Most people get only a tiny piece of the real picture. And sometimes it's so far from reality you cant debate them.
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Trump
Nov 26, 2020 14:25:24 GMT -4
Post by Citris on Nov 26, 2020 14:25:24 GMT -4
Have you perhaps considered that a lot of what you are saying is perception due to strong messaging? There is no question that the right side of politics benefits from a well oiled messaging machine. People vote against their own self interests all the time. A lot of what you are providing is talking points from rallies, not specifics policies. In regards to H1N1 for example, Trump was bad but Biden/Obama failed. Perhaps you can provide specifics on this comparison? Trump knew how bad covid was, intentionally hid it from the public, infected nearly the entire wwhitehouse holding a superspreader event, spread covid around the US with maskless rallies, condemned experts in the field leading to death threats, threatened governors to open their states against his own administrations guidelines, made masks a completely partisan issue. Had governors bidding against each other to acquire PPE. How do you "both sides" this? Immigration Policy - Trumps immigration policy is led by a white supremacist in Stephen Miller. Over 600 kids have been separated from their parents and cannot locate them, many are under 5 years old. He's also trying to go through the courts to get rid of millions of Americans who were born in the country, work full time jobs and pay taxes, some of which have been in the country over 20 years. He built a useless wall with tax payer money, lied that Mexico would pay for it. Do you support this policy? Health Care - one one hand, Biden was involved in passing the ACA, granting 20 million Americans access to health care, on the other hand, Trump wants to go through the courts to get rid of the ACA and take health care away from those same people. Do you have someone in your life that has a pre existing condition, could you imagine for aa second how they would have felt finding out they could now get health care, and then years later imagine how they would feel losing their health care in 2021 if the ACA is overturned? Environment - one believes climate change is an urgent issue and is actually assigned a major position for the first time at the whitehouse to deal with the climate, the other thinks climate change is a hoax. What do you think Trump has done specifically to help combat climate change? in 2020, it should be obvious why emissions would be down. In 2019, most site the emissions drop due to the reduced demand for coal. Trump supports coal and ran heavily on that messaging in 2016. Taxes - Ok there was some tax cuts that helped mostly wealthy people. Do you also approve of the way he abuses tax payer dollars? Such as violating the hatch act holding rallies at the Whitehouse, playing more golf than any other president in history, using tax payer dollars to directly benefit his own golf club. Attempting to use the DOJ to defend him in court on personal cases. holding rallies at various cities in the US leaving them to foot the 6 or 7 figure bill themselves (some are suing his campaign for this). Beyond all these policies, Trump is threatening the democracy one of the most powerful countries in the world. He wants to throw out the election results and overturn the will of the voters. He has made a complete mockery of the US on the world stage by calling their elections rigged and fraudulent despite his lawyers embarrassing themselves everyday in court, unable to provide any credible evidence of this. When you say he is better for Homeland Security have you considered the damage he has done in just the past few weeks? At what point for you do morals step in for Trump to lose your support? Very well said. The perception that there are rational reasons to vote republican is all based on rhetoric and posturing, not actual policy. One of the biggest weaknesses of the Democratic party is their messaging - honestly I'd love to see them be more vicious and drag conservatives for their choices instead of meekly trying to appeal to the base of white racists who will never vote for them anyway. Like I don't think I've heard a democrat mention yet that Trumps "tax cuts" will end up being a tax increase for everyone but the wealthy over the next few years. That's one of the few things Conservatives point to - they want to pay less taxes, well they were betrayed by their own party and the Democrats have done a terrible job with that messaging.
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Trump
Nov 26, 2020 15:22:13 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 26, 2020 15:22:13 GMT -4
I think the problem is not people NOT being informed, it's major sources of information("news" outlets, social media) INTENTIONALLY spreading false information. There have always been and will always be uniformed people, but right now the problems go a lot deeper than that in the MAGA crowd in the US and a small portion of similar folks in Canada. It's similar to anti vaxers, it's not taht they are uninformed, it's that they got their info from bad sources. People will believe what is convenient for them to believe. I hear the same things in the local area as I see on news regarding Covid and significant part of population not taking it serious. It's not a small portion here. Except here they equally disdain for all ends on political spectrum. People generally dont trust their leaders, authority figures or the system in place that is supposed to govern them. Those days are long gone. Also people like to criticize them (leaders, people in positions of authority, etc) but never offer themselves (or their smartest kin folk) up to run for the positions. They wont because they dont want to be one of them, and if they put any thought into it will probably realize their lack of qualification. The media is not as influential as it used to be. News media is dying off. The internet and blogs of every stripe are taking their audience, their space and even their best people. The ones left dont have the ability to get relevant truth out beyond the noise. Its influence has eroded to a point where much of its credibility is gone. People get "their news" and "their opinions" on their own now from a sprinkling of sources. Most people get only a tiny piece of the real picture. And sometimes it's so far from reality you cant debate them. You can't compare Canada and the US, here, only a small minority don't listen to leaders(regardless of political affiliation), in the US due to the factors I named it's very tribal. I think in times like these, we need more mainstream media and less opinion blogs that are heavily slated towards a person's beliefs. That's what gave us Trump, a bunch of white men willing to burn the US to the ground if they don't get what they want...white privilege in a nutshell. They don't want black and brown folks or women as equals and they see themselves as victims and will follow anybody that blows hot air up their a$$es.
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Trump
Nov 26, 2020 15:42:42 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Nov 26, 2020 15:42:42 GMT -4
Have you perhaps considered that a lot of what you are saying is perception due to strong messaging? There is no question that the right side of politics benefits from a well oiled messaging machine. People vote against their own self interests all the time. A lot of what you are providing is talking points from rallies, not specifics policies. In regards to H1N1 for example, Trump was bad but Biden/Obama failed. Perhaps you can provide specifics on this comparison? Trump knew how bad covid was, intentionally hid it from the public, infected nearly the entire wwhitehouse holding a superspreader event, spread covid around the US with maskless rallies, condemned experts in the field leading to death threats, threatened governors to open their states against his own administrations guidelines, made masks a completely partisan issue. Had governors bidding against each other to acquire PPE. How do you "both sides" this? Immigration Policy - Trumps immigration policy is led by a white supremacist in Stephen Miller. Over 600 kids have been separated from their parents and cannot locate them, many are under 5 years old. He's also trying to go through the courts to get rid of millions of Americans who were born in the country, work full time jobs and pay taxes, some of which have been in the country over 20 years. He built a useless wall with tax payer money, lied that Mexico would pay for it. Do you support this policy? Health Care - one one hand, Biden was involved in passing the ACA, granting 20 million Americans access to health care, on the other hand, Trump wants to go through the courts to get rid of the ACA and take health care away from those same people. Do you have someone in your life that has a pre existing condition, could you imagine for aa second how they would have felt finding out they could now get health care, and then years later imagine how they would feel losing their health care in 2021 if the ACA is overturned? Environment - one believes climate change is an urgent issue and is actually assigned a major position for the first time at the whitehouse to deal with the climate, the other thinks climate change is a hoax. What do you think Trump has done specifically to help combat climate change? in 2020, it should be obvious why emissions would be down. In 2019, most site the emissions drop due to the reduced demand for coal. Trump supports coal and ran heavily on that messaging in 2016. Taxes - Ok there was some tax cuts that helped mostly wealthy people. Do you also approve of the way he abuses tax payer dollars? Such as violating the hatch act holding rallies at the Whitehouse, playing more golf than any other president in history, using tax payer dollars to directly benefit his own golf club. Attempting to use the DOJ to defend him in court on personal cases. holding rallies at various cities in the US leaving them to foot the 6 or 7 figure bill themselves (some are suing his campaign for this). Beyond all these policies, Trump is threatening the democracy one of the most powerful countries in the world. He wants to throw out the election results and overturn the will of the voters. He has made a complete mockery of the US on the world stage by calling their elections rigged and fraudulent despite his lawyers embarrassing themselves everyday in court, unable to provide any credible evidence of this. When you say he is better for Homeland Security have you considered the damage he has done in just the past few weeks? At what point for you do morals step in for Trump to lose your support? Very well said. The perception that there are rational reasons to vote republican is all based on rhetoric and posturing, not actual policy. One of the biggest weaknesses of the Democratic party is their messaging - honestly I'd love to see them be more vicious and drag conservatives for their choices instead of meekly trying to appeal to the base of white racists who will never vote for them anyway. Like I don't think I've heard a democrat mention yet that Trumps "tax cuts" will end up being a tax increase for everyone but the wealthy over the next few years. That's one of the few things Conservatives point to - they want to pay less taxes, well they were betrayed by their own party and the Democrats have done a terrible job with that messaging. In a lot of cases you only have a few changes to get that messaging right, after that changing minds is difficult. You need the message to be straight forward, once you get into the details you lose some people. I blame a lot of this on the education system. Kids are going to start needing specific classes around critical thinking, and media literacy. Understanding "news" vs "opinion". Take defund the police for instance. Its an example of a case where the messaging is very simple, repeated often, but it does not have the overwhelming support it should because its too easy for people on social media, and conservative ads to say "have fun with no police if someone kidnaps you". When you break down each individual policy of defund the police they all sound incredibly reasonable, and some of them would actually be terrific for officers, taking them out or giving them more support in situations where they don't have expertise. Some of these ideas have already begun being used individually in police departments, but its going to take a long time to try and explain to someone who heard "defund the police", got hit with the messaging machine and would be willing to change their mind. The messaging on "lockdowns" vs using a term like "risk mitigation" is another one. We haven't experienced anything remotely close to a lockdown, even in March/April it wasn't a lockdown. But the idea of being anti-lockdown has stuck with some people for close to a year now.
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Trump
Nov 27, 2020 12:24:55 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 27, 2020 12:24:55 GMT -4
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Trump
Nov 27, 2020 14:48:47 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 27, 2020 14:48:47 GMT -4
The Democrats seem to be in a better position, their support with women is growing and they have the majority of black, brown and Asian population. That's why they are shrinking in Georgia, Texas and Arizona.
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Trump
Nov 27, 2020 19:30:58 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Nov 27, 2020 19:30:58 GMT -4
The Democrats seem to be in a better position, their support with women is growing and they have the majority of black, brown and Asian population. That's why they are shrinking in Georgia, Texas and Arizona. Urban areas are growing in those states (GA,TX) filling in so the smaller cities envelope the communities around them, and also in case of Texas hispanic population growth also heaviest in the cities. Things that arent happening as much like that in northern states like Minnesota, Missouri, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, or even Maine. Arizona population is mostly in 2 cities (Phoenix-Scottsdale & Tucson). The AZ population is growing fast now - fastest growth in the US New Mexico is another state like Nevada and Colorado that has 80%-90% of population in a few cities. The rest is uninhabitable really.
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Trump
Dec 7, 2020 22:08:35 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Dec 7, 2020 22:08:35 GMT -4
Rudy is the latest member of the Trump inner circle to get Covid.... hope he gets better and this gets him off TV peddling BS about the election being stolen. Rudy was a great mayor of NY , anyone who has been to Manhattan and especially Times Square and has seen how beautiful that place is owes it to Rudy because it was a complete shithole in the 80s and early 90s before he was elected. He is wasting his legacy going on TV every day spouting election fraud.
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Trump
Dec 8, 2020 8:39:33 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 8, 2020 8:39:33 GMT -4
Rudy is the latest member of the Trump inner circle to get Covid.... hope he gets better and this gets him off TV peddling BS about the election being stolen. Rudy was a great mayor of NY , anyone who has been to Manhattan and especially Times Square and has seen how beautiful that place is owes it to Rudy because it was a complete shithole in the 80s and early 90s before he was elected. He is wasting his legacy going on TV every day spouting election fraud. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will flush whatever reputation they have down the toilet for Trump and his MAGAts.
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Trump
Dec 14, 2020 9:11:48 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 14, 2020 9:11:48 GMT -4
So after calling Covid a Democratoc hoax, then calling for herd immunity...the White House staff is apparently jumping to the front of the line for vaccines??
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Trump
Jan 4, 2021 6:25:12 GMT -4
Post by hal on Jan 4, 2021 6:25:12 GMT -4
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Trump
Jan 4, 2021 8:56:05 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 4, 2021 8:56:05 GMT -4
Trump makes Nixon look like a jaywalker who got a ticket. He's done worse than Nixon on AT LEAST 4 or 5 occasions in full public view and the GOP has not batted an eye. They voted against his impeachment for extorting the president of Ukraine in the same way.
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Trump
Jan 4, 2021 11:45:59 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 4, 2021 11:45:59 GMT -4
This is the quote that everybody is going on about ... "So look, all I want to do is this: I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state,". That quote is the truth (not the "won the state" part) ... he wants to find that many votes. He thinks they were thrown out or shredded or whatever form of fraud may have (or may not have) occurred. Nowhere did he threaten or bully anybody into making up cast ballots that would change the outcome. He is simply stating what he is looking for, which is no surprise to anybody because that is what he needs to overturn the result. He is desperate, I agree, because losing is the biggest blow to his ego that he has ever seen. If you take the quote out of context then you can easily misconstrue what he said. And that's what the media loves to do. I am not a Trump supporter ... will be happy to see him gone. But I am a hater of what the media has become.
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