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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 10:46:24 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 10:46:24 GMT -4
So you're already willing to trust Pence a bit. After he promoted and encouraged this shit for 4 years. It took only ONE day of not waving Trump's flag and you're arguing why Pence may do the right thing. No wonder people are so cynical of all this. If you're as anti Trump as you have been....how do you literally flip on someone like Pence like this and give him any benefit of the doubt after yesterday and just separate Pence as if he hasn't been as involved as anyone the last 4 years. The fact you think he's going to see any penalty for income tax fraud is laughable to me. The treason charges are what he should be trying to avoid now. People clinging to NY state arresting him on 1/21 are delusional in my opinion but I certainly hope i'm wrong. I don't think they will arrest him, but I think you will see them come after him. I think he will be dead by the time jail time arrives, but he will take the family down with him. If only to expose all the crimes and corruption, Biden's AG needs to appoint somebody to investigate and possibly prosecute, start with Russia and Ukraine and go to sedition. In terms of Pence, the minute he would take over he wouldn't need to be Trump's lap dog, doubt he would suddenly turn on him, but don't see a pardon either. I'm not even sure it would be lawful, any good AG could say he was complicit anyways. Same as they will likely do for Flynn, Manfort and co I think anyone actually thinking he's ever going on trial or near a jail cell are just too caught up in it all. And I hope i'm very wrong on that. And please stop trying to tell us why Pence wouldn't flip flop again right back to blowing Donnie with his own power if the moment ever came. They're in this together. He doesn't get to jump off the titanic as it rests into the Ocean. He's a captain on that ship and you have to stop trying to assume he'd do anything good if given the chance. Pence is still an extreme right wing gay denying conversation therapy loving absolute wing nut. You have no clue if he'd be loyal to Trump if given the chance. It just blows me away that after 4 years you'd bother to argue that he wouldn't. It's like you missed this entire thread that you've dominated and who have been complicit in all this for 4 years.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 10:49:21 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 7, 2021 10:49:21 GMT -4
They are sad and pathetic. Most of their election strategy is not to campaign on things the majority wants, they just try and stop minorities from voting. That's their whole strategy. Having a clown who possesses ZERO conservative beliefs or morals at the helm just exposes them for the greedy opportunists they are. they helped Trump win to get their judges and tax cuts, that was the tradeoff, now trump is turning on them for not going along with his made up "election fraud" story line. Their strategy is to convince people with fear and lies. They didn't try and stop Cubans from voting in Florida. Because they used attack ads to convince them Biden and the dems are socialists. He'd gladly throw out white people votes depending on what states they're in. I agree with that, but the suppression of black and brown votes is a more national strategy going on for 10-15 years. The fear mongering has been in large part since Trump got involved. He will say anything no matter how absurd and the media runs with it. He will do it to smear, like with Cruz's father and wife, or even to distract like with the bleach comments.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 10:52:01 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 10:52:01 GMT -4
All the GOP politicians will separate themselves now. Anyone who lets them do so is just letting them off easy. If Pence gets to wash his hands of this with 2 weeks left and gains any support...it's no wonder how this has been able to go on for 4 years. And why it will inevitably happen during every election cycle for the rest of our lives. Most of the GOP will have the Trump shit stain on them. Unless Trump is wildly popular in 2, 4 and 6 years, guys like Cruz, Rubio, Graham, Pence etc will wear the last 4 years in whatever race they enter. The Dems will not let them forget it. I think in about 6 months we will see a fraying of the GOP, it will be quite a tap dance for whoever wants to take over for 2024 and those that run on purple states in 2022. Trump's shadow will still be very present, but I think he will try and pivot to a new project to distract from his November drubbing. Try and rebuild his image. The Dems wont let them forget it? Ugh...just stop with that shit. Trump just got 74 million votes while wearing his own shit stains. Stop pretending like the Democratic party is any sort of moral compass that can sink the GOP. Or did you already forget the news cycles from the last few years? You're 1 "creepy Joe" minor scandal from the GOP "not letting the Dems forget it". It's a 2 horse race where they both don't let each other forget anything. Which is why so much radical shit has become normalized. Plots to kidnap state leaders are glanced over in our news cycle now. Nothing is going back to normal politically down there any time soon.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 10:52:31 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 10:52:31 GMT -4
Their strategy is to convince people with fear and lies. They didn't try and stop Cubans from voting in Florida. Because they used attack ads to convince them Biden and the dems are socialists. He'd gladly throw out white people votes depending on what states they're in. I agree with that, but the suppression of black and brown votes is a more national strategy going on for 10-15 years. The fear mongering has been in large part since Trump got involved. He will say anything no matter how absurd and the media runs with it. He will do it to smear, like with Cruz's father and wife, or even to distract like with the bleach comments. 10-15 years? Cringe worthy statement. Try 250 years.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 11:18:15 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 7, 2021 11:18:15 GMT -4
I agree with that, but the suppression of black and brown votes is a more national strategy going on for 10-15 years. The fear mongering has been in large part since Trump got involved. He will say anything no matter how absurd and the media runs with it. He will do it to smear, like with Cruz's father and wife, or even to distract like with the bleach comments. 10-15 years? Cringe worthy statement. Try 250 years. I as refering to gerrymandering, you can stop your grandstading at any point.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 11:30:23 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Jan 7, 2021 11:30:23 GMT -4
Something I saw on another forum that articulated far better than I could. We as people will have to continue to find ways to prevent misinformation and conspiracy theories from spreading and this should be a wake up call. You might have someone in your family right now or a friend who's dabbling in this stuff. We've seen people on this very forum who are already half way in.
"The woman Trump supporter who was shot dead inside the US Capital yesterday was an Air Force veteran named Ashli Babbit. She was a wife and mother who left her family in California to fly to Washington DC to be a part of a coup attempt. Her husband and child are now left behind, their wife and mother dead because she fell victim to far right propaganda.
This is the final price of a diet of false information. This is the final price of propaganda. The last tweet Babbit sent before leaving her family was this, "Nothing will stop us. They can try, but the storm is here and it is descending upon DC…. dark to light."
Their child will grow up and eventually find out that the end of their mother’s life was a public spectacle. The conclusion of 4 years of nearly half the country being consistently fead false information. Babbit was the first person through that window and she was the last. She got further than any American misguided terrorist has ever gotten. Just feet from hiding lawmakers her propaganda smashed into reality, and she is now dead.
She died wrapped in a Trump flag, bleeding profusely from her gun shot wound to the neck. Surrounded by panicked Trump supporters who were too afraid to treat her gunshot wound. Some of which who just immediately assumed she was dead. Had she been properly treated she may have survived, but that’s the price you pay when propaganda meets reality."
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 11:38:25 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 11:38:25 GMT -4
10-15 years? Cringe worthy statement. Try 250 years. I as refering to gerrymandering, you can stop your grandstading at any point. Grandstanding? You said suppressing of black and brown votes has been happening as a national strategy for 10-15 years. Seriously read some history books if you believe that to be true. A black man was President for 8 of those 15 years. Do you really still want to make that date range your hill to die on and say i'm grandstanding? Suppressing minority votes in America has happened as long as America has been a country. To even try and pretend it's something we've only seen for 10-15 years is quite the statement to make to call me grandstanding for mocking it as laughable.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 11:42:36 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 7, 2021 11:42:36 GMT -4
I as refering to gerrymandering, you can stop your grandstading at any point. Grandstanding? You said suppressing of black and brown votes has been happening as a national strategy for 10-15 years. Seriously read some history books if you believe that to be true. A black man was President for 8 of those 15 years. Do you really still want to make that date range your hill to die on and say i'm grandstanding? Suppressing minority votes in America has happened as long as America has been a country. To even try and pretend it's something we've only seen for 10-15 years is quite the statement to make to call me grandstanding for mocking it as laughable. I was talking about the rebublican party and their campaign strategies, not US laws, try and keep up.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 11:47:06 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 11:47:06 GMT -4
Grandstanding? You said suppressing of black and brown votes has been happening as a national strategy for 10-15 years. Seriously read some history books if you believe that to be true. A black man was President for 8 of those 15 years. Do you really still want to make that date range your hill to die on and say i'm grandstanding? Suppressing minority votes in America has happened as long as America has been a country. To even try and pretend it's something we've only seen for 10-15 years is quite the statement to make to call me grandstanding for mocking it as laughable. I was talking about the rebublican party and their campaign strategies, not US laws, try and keep up. Your statement was clear black and white. Either call yourself on a stupid statement...or say you forget some 0's and meant way more then 10-15 years. You can try to talk around it by changing the meaning you thought you were saying but it was a direct statement with a clear meaning. The fact you're trying to defend it....meaning you think the GOP only started to suppress minority votes under Bush (or a dem president in Obama)....is fucking mind blowing.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 12:11:28 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 7, 2021 12:11:28 GMT -4
I was talking about the rebublican party and their campaign strategies, not US laws, try and keep up. Your statement was clear black and white. Either call yourself on a stupid statement...or say you forget some 0's and meant way more then 10-15 years. You can try to talk around it by changing the meaning you thought you were saying but it was a direct statement with a clear meaning. The fact you're trying to defend it....meaning you think the GOP only started to suppress minority votes under Bush (or a dem president in Obama)....is fucking mind blowing. Your entire line of comments make no sense. First of all black people have not been eligible to vote on elections for 250 years, they have only been able to for 150 years. So no political party would have spent the last 250 years trying to stop them from voting on election day as part of their presidetial/senate/congrssional campaigns.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 13:57:48 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 7, 2021 13:57:48 GMT -4
Most of the GOP will have the Trump shit stain on them. Unless Trump is wildly popular in 2, 4 and 6 years, guys like Cruz, Rubio, Graham, Pence etc will wear the last 4 years in whatever race they enter. The Dems will not let them forget it. I think in about 6 months we will see a fraying of the GOP, it will be quite a tap dance for whoever wants to take over for 2024 and those that run on purple states in 2022. Trump's shadow will still be very present, but I think he will try and pivot to a new project to distract from his November drubbing. Try and rebuild his image. The Dems wont let them forget it? Ugh...just stop with that shit. Trump just got 74 million votes while wearing his own shit stains. Stop pretending like the Democratic party is any sort of moral compass that can sink the GOP. Or did you already forget the news cycles from the last few years? You're 1 "creepy Joe" minor scandal from the GOP "not letting the Dems forget it". It's a 2 horse race where they both don't let each other forget anything. Which is why so much radical shit has become normalized. Plots to kidnap state leaders are glanced over in our news cycle now. Nothing is going back to normal politically down there any time soon. THIS ... agree wholeheartedly. What people don't realize is that what happened yesterday was a large group of American people working in the mindset that they were defending democracy. Trump riled them up and they all believe that the election was rigged/stolen, and so they acted as many Americans would do, in the name of democracy. Of course they were acting with bad information, but that is why they attacked the Capitol, to try to save democracy. Trump speaks for almost half of the nation, but I can't say that half of the nation believes that the election was rigged/Stolen. I'm not sure how you get passed this as a nation when close to half of the people believe that democracy was perverted in this election. I know that the courts ruled on all of the lawsuits filed, but everything was done too quickly. They could not get access to all of the documents that were needed to do a complete investigation ... everything gets locked up. So to me, a full and thorough investigation was not completed. I don't support the idea that the election was stolen, but as an outsider I think they need to do a full investigation to try to bring back some semblance of peace to the US. Some sort of "Mueller Type Investigation". If they don't and just move forward with the attitude that "Biden won ... get over it" then they'll remain greatly divided. For the sake of the country, it must be investigated completely. I know even that won't be good enough for many of the extremists, but it will be for those Republican voters that are not extremists which is a large portion. I think this gets worse before it gets better.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 14:32:49 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 7, 2021 14:32:49 GMT -4
The Dems wont let them forget it? Ugh...just stop with that shit. Trump just got 74 million votes while wearing his own shit stains. Stop pretending like the Democratic party is any sort of moral compass that can sink the GOP. Or did you already forget the news cycles from the last few years? You're 1 "creepy Joe" minor scandal from the GOP "not letting the Dems forget it". It's a 2 horse race where they both don't let each other forget anything. Which is why so much radical shit has become normalized. Plots to kidnap state leaders are glanced over in our news cycle now. Nothing is going back to normal politically down there any time soon. THIS ... agree wholeheartedly. What people don't realize is that what happened yesterday was a large group of American people working in the mindset that they were defending democracy. Trump riled them up and they all believe that the election was rigged/stolen, and so they acted as many Americans would do, in the name of democracy. Of course they were acting with bad information, but that is why they attacked the Capitol, to try to save democracy. Trump speaks for almost half of the nation, but I can't say that half of the nation believes that the election was rigged/Stolen. I'm not sure how you get passed this as a nation when close to half of the people believe that democracy was perverted in this election. I know that the courts ruled on all of the lawsuits filed, but everything was done too quickly. They could not get access to all of the documents that were needed to do a complete investigation ... everything gets locked up. So to me, a full and thorough investigation was not completed. I don't support the idea that the election was stolen, but as an outsider I think they need to do a full investigation to try to bring back some semblance of peace to the US. Some sort of "Mueller Type Investigation". If they don't and just move forward with the attitude that "Biden won ... get over it" then they'll remain greatly divided. For the sake of the country, it must be investigated completely. I know even that won't be good enough for many of the extremists, but it will be for those Republican voters that are not extremists which is a large portion. I think this gets worse before it gets better. The part you're missing is, Trump was saying there would be fraud even BEFORE the election, the GOP had access to all polling stations and counting locations. 3 of the states he is accusing of fraud are under a GOP Attorney General running the show like in Georgia. The whole point of voter fraud is not for somebody to say, I think I won but I lost so there was fraud, like a trial in a court room, you need actual evidence, not just a bruised ego. Trump has schemed his way through life, often failing upwards due to daddy's money and perceived fame, this is just another example. They have gone to court 61 one times as of last count and lost 60 times, the one time they won was a procedural motion, Trump's own nominated judges laugh him out of court. It's the same as me trying to sue for the 6/49 prize even if I have all wrong numbers.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 14:45:28 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Jan 7, 2021 14:45:28 GMT -4
The Dems wont let them forget it? Ugh...just stop with that shit. Trump just got 74 million votes while wearing his own shit stains. Stop pretending like the Democratic party is any sort of moral compass that can sink the GOP. Or did you already forget the news cycles from the last few years? You're 1 "creepy Joe" minor scandal from the GOP "not letting the Dems forget it". It's a 2 horse race where they both don't let each other forget anything. Which is why so much radical shit has become normalized. Plots to kidnap state leaders are glanced over in our news cycle now. Nothing is going back to normal politically down there any time soon. THIS ... agree wholeheartedly. What people don't realize is that what happened yesterday was a large group of American people working in the mindset that they were defending democracy. Trump riled them up and they all believe that the election was rigged/stolen, and so they acted as many Americans would do, in the name of democracy. Of course they were acting with bad information, but that is why they attacked the Capitol, to try to save democracy. Trump speaks for almost half of the nation, but I can't say that half of the nation believes that the election was rigged/Stolen. I'm not sure how you get passed this as a nation when close to half of the people believe that democracy was perverted in this election. I know that the courts ruled on all of the lawsuits filed, but everything was done too quickly. They could not get access to all of the documents that were needed to do a complete investigation ... everything gets locked up. So to me, a full and thorough investigation was not completed. I don't support the idea that the election was stolen, but as an outsider I think they need to do a full investigation to try to bring back some semblance of peace to the US. Some sort of "Mueller Type Investigation". If they don't and just move forward with the attitude that "Biden won ... get over it" then they'll remain greatly divided. For the sake of the country, it must be investigated completely. I know even that won't be good enough for many of the extremists, but it will be for those Republican voters that are not extremists which is a large portion. I think this gets worse before it gets better. Can you clarify what you mean by they couldn't get access to the documents? I'm not familiar with this. I mean they can feel free to investigate it but at what point are they going to spend all this time based on misinformation ? There is a large support in the US for Qanon based on no information, should they investigate that too? Hundreds and hundreds of Trump appointed officials, republican elected officials, Trump appointed judges, cyber security guys like Chris Krebs have all stated that they cannot find a single case of evidence that would lead to any belief there is voter fraud. Georgia completed 3 recounts including a count by hand, and many other states have done the same. Vote by mail has been used in the US for over 100 years and is extremely secure despite what the President says. His own Justice department and loyalist Bill Barr said his department could not find any credible instances of voter fraud. If statements from these high level officials have still left people thinking this was a fraudulent election, I don't believe any investigation will change their minds. Inevitably it will conclude they found a few more cases of fraud here and there but nothing to indicate widespread and Trump supporters will conclude the deep state was part of the investigation and millions of dollars will be wasted. I agree with you on the mindset of the mob yesterday, but I also think we are underestimating how many across america have this same mindset and support their actions even if they aren't willing to do so themselves.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 15:49:36 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 15:49:36 GMT -4
Your statement was clear black and white. Either call yourself on a stupid statement...or say you forget some 0's and meant way more then 10-15 years. You can try to talk around it by changing the meaning you thought you were saying but it was a direct statement with a clear meaning. The fact you're trying to defend it....meaning you think the GOP only started to suppress minority votes under Bush (or a dem president in Obama)....is fucking mind blowing. Your entire line of comments make no sense. First of all black people have not been eligible to vote on elections for 250 years, they have only been able to for 150 years. So no political party would have spent the last 250 years trying to stop them from voting on election day as part of their presidetial/senate/congrssional campaigns. I will happily correct 250 years to 150 for the sake of making sense. Care to add a 0 to 10-15 years? Or want to keep deflecting/ignoring?
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 15:58:13 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 15:58:13 GMT -4
The Dems wont let them forget it? Ugh...just stop with that shit. Trump just got 74 million votes while wearing his own shit stains. Stop pretending like the Democratic party is any sort of moral compass that can sink the GOP. Or did you already forget the news cycles from the last few years? You're 1 "creepy Joe" minor scandal from the GOP "not letting the Dems forget it". It's a 2 horse race where they both don't let each other forget anything. Which is why so much radical shit has become normalized. Plots to kidnap state leaders are glanced over in our news cycle now. Nothing is going back to normal politically down there any time soon. THIS ... agree wholeheartedly. What people don't realize is that what happened yesterday was a large group of American people working in the mindset that they were defending democracy. Trump riled them up and they all believe that the election was rigged/stolen, and so they acted as many Americans would do, in the name of democracy. Of course they were acting with bad information, but that is why they attacked the Capitol, to try to save democracy. Trump speaks for almost half of the nation, but I can't say that half of the nation believes that the election was rigged/Stolen. I'm not sure how you get passed this as a nation when close to half of the people believe that democracy was perverted in this election. I know that the courts ruled on all of the lawsuits filed, but everything was done too quickly. They could not get access to all of the documents that were needed to do a complete investigation ... everything gets locked up. So to me, a full and thorough investigation was not completed. I don't support the idea that the election was stolen, but as an outsider I think they need to do a full investigation to try to bring back some semblance of peace to the US. Some sort of "Mueller Type Investigation". If they don't and just move forward with the attitude that "Biden won ... get over it" then they'll remain greatly divided. For the sake of the country, it must be investigated completely. I know even that won't be good enough for many of the extremists, but it will be for those Republican voters that are not extremists which is a large portion. I think this gets worse before it gets better. You're missing that the only way an investigation pleases yesterdays terrorists is if they do it themselvesx and get the right outcome they want. Any other way is flawed and not going to please them because they're illogical morons. An investigation does nothing to quiet his base. Because it would have to be done by a neutral 3rd party which doesn't exist in the world of Trump. You're with him or not and with him means giving him results he asks for. Deserves or not is irrelevant to him. I definitely agree it gets worse. Because we need to find a way to move on while not giving any credibility to the nonsense and just keep telling that insane base that they can't expect credibility by shitting on mailed in ballots he angled to have ineligible by using covid as his way to eliminate votes. But his plan isn't working as he wants because other elected officials told him the election was fine and there was nothing out of the norm as his own legal team proved by losing 50+ cases in the month after the election and their only victory being to get a little closer to vote counters in certain states. If a Republican voter still needs an investigation to prove anything then results really aren't proving anything because there's 4 years of recent history that is clear and there to see and ingest to form your opinion. What does another Mueller report do when the existing one was ignored by the right? We now want more reports to prove that he's wrong on things he can't prove himself? Sounds to me like the left has to stop being so accepting of being shit on and stand up for themselves. More investigations won't do anything. But action on Jan 21 surely will. I predict it's more talk and little action.
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