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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 16:03:12 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 7, 2021 16:03:12 GMT -4
THIS ... agree wholeheartedly. What people don't realize is that what happened yesterday was a large group of American people working in the mindset that they were defending democracy. Trump riled them up and they all believe that the election was rigged/stolen, and so they acted as many Americans would do, in the name of democracy. Of course they were acting with bad information, but that is why they attacked the Capitol, to try to save democracy. Trump speaks for almost half of the nation, but I can't say that half of the nation believes that the election was rigged/Stolen. I'm not sure how you get passed this as a nation when close to half of the people believe that democracy was perverted in this election. I know that the courts ruled on all of the lawsuits filed, but everything was done too quickly. They could not get access to all of the documents that were needed to do a complete investigation ... everything gets locked up. So to me, a full and thorough investigation was not completed. I don't support the idea that the election was stolen, but as an outsider I think they need to do a full investigation to try to bring back some semblance of peace to the US. Some sort of "Mueller Type Investigation". If they don't and just move forward with the attitude that "Biden won ... get over it" then they'll remain greatly divided. For the sake of the country, it must be investigated completely. I know even that won't be good enough for many of the extremists, but it will be for those Republican voters that are not extremists which is a large portion. I think this gets worse before it gets better. The part you're missing is, Trump was saying there would be fraud even BEFORE the election, the GOP had access to all polling stations and counting locations. 3 of the states he is accusing of fraud are under a GOP Attorney General running the show like in Georgia. The whole point of voter fraud is not for somebody to say, I think I won but I lost so there was fraud, like a trial in a court room, you need actual evidence, not just a bruised ego. Trump has schemed his way through life, often failing upwards due to daddy's money and perceived fame, this is just another example. They have gone to court 61 one times as of last count and lost 60 times, the one time they won was a procedural motion, Trump's own nominated judges laugh him out of court. It's the same as me trying to sue for the 6/49 prize even if I have all wrong numbers. I'm not defending Trump ... I watched what he did yesterday in his speech to the crowd that ultimately broke into the Capitol. Those people believed the BS he said, and acted on it in the name of defending democracy. Of course they were wrong in what they believed but that's on Trump. It is the American way to defend democracy to the death and that's what those people thought they were doing. If you can't understand that I can't help you.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 16:12:02 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 7, 2021 16:12:02 GMT -4
THIS ... agree wholeheartedly. What people don't realize is that what happened yesterday was a large group of American people working in the mindset that they were defending democracy. Trump riled them up and they all believe that the election was rigged/stolen, and so they acted as many Americans would do, in the name of democracy. Of course they were acting with bad information, but that is why they attacked the Capitol, to try to save democracy. Trump speaks for almost half of the nation, but I can't say that half of the nation believes that the election was rigged/Stolen. I'm not sure how you get passed this as a nation when close to half of the people believe that democracy was perverted in this election. I know that the courts ruled on all of the lawsuits filed, but everything was done too quickly. They could not get access to all of the documents that were needed to do a complete investigation ... everything gets locked up. So to me, a full and thorough investigation was not completed. I don't support the idea that the election was stolen, but as an outsider I think they need to do a full investigation to try to bring back some semblance of peace to the US. Some sort of "Mueller Type Investigation". If they don't and just move forward with the attitude that "Biden won ... get over it" then they'll remain greatly divided. For the sake of the country, it must be investigated completely. I know even that won't be good enough for many of the extremists, but it will be for those Republican voters that are not extremists which is a large portion. I think this gets worse before it gets better. You're missing that the only way an investigation pleases yesterdays terrorists is if they do it themselvesx and get the right outcome they want. Any other way is flawed and not going to please them because they're illogical morons. An investigation does nothing to quiet his base. Because it would have to be done by a neutral 3rd party which doesn't exist in the world of Trump. You're with him or not and with him means giving him results he asks for. Deserves or not is irrelevant to him. I definitely agree it gets worse. Because we need to find a way to move on while not giving any credibility to the nonsense and just keep telling that insane base that they can't expect credibility by shitting on mailed in ballots he angled to have ineligible by using covid as his way to eliminate votes. But his plan isn't working as he wants because other elected officials told him the election was fine and there was nothing out of the norm as his own legal team proved by losing 50+ cases in the month after the election and their only victory being to get a little closer to vote counters in certain states. If a Republican voter still needs an investigation to prove anything then results really aren't proving anything because there's 4 years of recent history that is clear and there to see and ingest to form your opinion. What does another Mueller report do when the existing one was ignored by the right? We now want more reports to prove that he's wrong on things he can't prove himself? Sounds to me like the left has to stop being so accepting of being shit on and stand up for themselves. More investigations won't do anything. But action on Jan 21 surely will. I predict it's more talk and little action. Pretty sure I said that an investigation won't please everybody, but it will please some of them, and it will at least show that they tried to deal with it instead of sweeping it under the rug. If they sweep it under the rug and don't have a full investigation then it will fester and blow up. They have to try to mend the rift or the rift will grow. Biden says he will speak for all americans, well 74 million of them think they were cheated and they need to be calmed down before civil war breaks out. Yesterday wasn't an abberation.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 16:14:05 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 16:14:05 GMT -4
The part you're missing is, Trump was saying there would be fraud even BEFORE the election, the GOP had access to all polling stations and counting locations. 3 of the states he is accusing of fraud are under a GOP Attorney General running the show like in Georgia. The whole point of voter fraud is not for somebody to say, I think I won but I lost so there was fraud, like a trial in a court room, you need actual evidence, not just a bruised ego. Trump has schemed his way through life, often failing upwards due to daddy's money and perceived fame, this is just another example. They have gone to court 61 one times as of last count and lost 60 times, the one time they won was a procedural motion, Trump's own nominated judges laugh him out of court. It's the same as me trying to sue for the 6/49 prize even if I have all wrong numbers. I'm not defending Trump ... I watched what he did yesterday in his speech to the crowd that ultimately broke into the Capitol. Those people believed the BS he said, and acted on it in the name of defending democracy. Of course they were wrong in what they believed but that's on Trump. It is the American way to defend democracy to the death and that's what those people thought they were doing. If you can't understand that I can't help you. Yeah they're brain washed and following his orders. Just like he gathered them (tweeted on Tuesday about all the people invading DC...) and gave them their marching orders he could have as easily stopped them and saved face after 4 years of craziness with 1 line on twitter, facebook(now banned), instagram(now banned), live tv, radio, or the white house official website and said: I concede that Joe Biden fairly won the electoral college and will be President on Jan 21.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 16:22:04 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 16:22:04 GMT -4
You're missing that the only way an investigation pleases yesterdays terrorists is if they do it themselvesx and get the right outcome they want. Any other way is flawed and not going to please them because they're illogical morons. An investigation does nothing to quiet his base. Because it would have to be done by a neutral 3rd party which doesn't exist in the world of Trump. You're with him or not and with him means giving him results he asks for. Deserves or not is irrelevant to him. I definitely agree it gets worse. Because we need to find a way to move on while not giving any credibility to the nonsense and just keep telling that insane base that they can't expect credibility by shitting on mailed in ballots he angled to have ineligible by using covid as his way to eliminate votes. But his plan isn't working as he wants because other elected officials told him the election was fine and there was nothing out of the norm as his own legal team proved by losing 50+ cases in the month after the election and their only victory being to get a little closer to vote counters in certain states. If a Republican voter still needs an investigation to prove anything then results really aren't proving anything because there's 4 years of recent history that is clear and there to see and ingest to form your opinion. What does another Mueller report do when the existing one was ignored by the right? We now want more reports to prove that he's wrong on things he can't prove himself? Sounds to me like the left has to stop being so accepting of being shit on and stand up for themselves. More investigations won't do anything. But action on Jan 21 surely will. I predict it's more talk and little action. Pretty sure I said that an investigation won't please everybody, but it will please some of them, and it will at least show that they tried to deal with it instead of sweeping it under the rug. If they sweep it under the rug and don't have a full investigation then it will fester and blow up. They have to try to mend the rift or the rift will grow. Biden says he will speak for all americans, well 74 million of them think they were cheated and they need to be calmed down before civil war breaks out. Yesterday wasn't an abberation. I agree I just dont see how those 74 million support any investigation that he doesnt endorse the results of. There's no mending any rift with those 74 mil, or the majority of them, without the type of political change that is seemingly impossible in their 1 vs 2, red vs blue, gop vs dem, me vs you system. Some of those 74 million will want to march again as the US under a democratic President, House, and Senate all try and push the systematic changes for the people that did vote for them. You can't just see a divide and hear the irrational nature of 1 side and rationally think they're going to come onboard or accept anything that the other side offers as an olive branch. Just look at how they dished out covid relief compared to other developed nations. They're a top heavy "reward the billionaires" government that's potentially on the verge of going against that mantra that those 74 mil think are the ONLY way to proceed and if not you're a communist/socialist terrorist against their financial system. Those thinking they were cheated aren't changing their minds with fair investigations following the fair elections. I'd love to agree that the gap can be bridged...but this has just escalated over my life time and I don't see the escalation changing...just the divide getting bigger because compromise has been replaced by domination thanks to the style that got Trump elected. Also cant ignore the damage Mitch McConnell has done during his career to help that financial gap widen between the rich and poor while hand tieing things Obama wanted to do after things like school shooting that their country turns into right wing conspiracies because that's how absolutely vile and miserable some on that right really are. And those folks are never coming back to reason.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 16:23:27 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 7, 2021 16:23:27 GMT -4
THIS ... agree wholeheartedly. What people don't realize is that what happened yesterday was a large group of American people working in the mindset that they were defending democracy. Trump riled them up and they all believe that the election was rigged/stolen, and so they acted as many Americans would do, in the name of democracy. Of course they were acting with bad information, but that is why they attacked the Capitol, to try to save democracy. Trump speaks for almost half of the nation, but I can't say that half of the nation believes that the election was rigged/Stolen. I'm not sure how you get passed this as a nation when close to half of the people believe that democracy was perverted in this election. I know that the courts ruled on all of the lawsuits filed, but everything was done too quickly. They could not get access to all of the documents that were needed to do a complete investigation ... everything gets locked up. So to me, a full and thorough investigation was not completed. I don't support the idea that the election was stolen, but as an outsider I think they need to do a full investigation to try to bring back some semblance of peace to the US. Some sort of "Mueller Type Investigation". If they don't and just move forward with the attitude that "Biden won ... get over it" then they'll remain greatly divided. For the sake of the country, it must be investigated completely. I know even that won't be good enough for many of the extremists, but it will be for those Republican voters that are not extremists which is a large portion. I think this gets worse before it gets better. You're missing that the only way an investigation pleases yesterdays terrorists is if they do it themselvesx and get the right outcome they want. Any other way is flawed and not going to please them because they're illogical morons. An investigation does nothing to quiet his base. Because it would have to be done by a neutral 3rd party which doesn't exist in the world of Trump. You're with him or not and with him means giving him results he asks for. Deserves or not is irrelevant to him. I definitely agree it gets worse. Because we need to find a way to move on while not giving any credibility to the nonsense and just keep telling that insane base that they can't expect credibility by shitting on mailed in ballots he angled to have ineligible by using covid as his way to eliminate votes. But his plan isn't working as he wants because other elected officials told him the election was fine and there was nothing out of the norm as his own legal team proved by losing 50+ cases in the month after the election and their only victory being to get a little closer to vote counters in certain states. If a Republican voter still needs an investigation to prove anything then results really aren't proving anything because there's 4 years of recent history that is clear and there to see and ingest to form your opinion. What does another Mueller report do when the existing one was ignored by the right? We now want more reports to prove that he's wrong on things he can't prove himself? Sounds to me like the left has to stop being so accepting of being shit on and stand up for themselves. More investigations won't do anything. But action on Jan 21 surely will. I predict it's more talk and little action. There some that will always be MAGA and Qanon nuts, but there is a portion of the GOP base that are not radicals. Those are the people you want to establish law and order for. Those folks will take prosecutions and trials seriously. Weather they like it or not GOP voters are the minority and as the US population grows, non college educated whites a smaller minority. they will have two choices, act like grown ups to have their voices heard or get angry and support clowns like Trump who may no longer have the EC votes to win.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 16:29:33 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 7, 2021 16:29:33 GMT -4
You're missing that the only way an investigation pleases yesterdays terrorists is if they do it themselvesx and get the right outcome they want. Any other way is flawed and not going to please them because they're illogical morons. An investigation does nothing to quiet his base. Because it would have to be done by a neutral 3rd party which doesn't exist in the world of Trump. You're with him or not and with him means giving him results he asks for. Deserves or not is irrelevant to him. I definitely agree it gets worse. Because we need to find a way to move on while not giving any credibility to the nonsense and just keep telling that insane base that they can't expect credibility by shitting on mailed in ballots he angled to have ineligible by using covid as his way to eliminate votes. But his plan isn't working as he wants because other elected officials told him the election was fine and there was nothing out of the norm as his own legal team proved by losing 50+ cases in the month after the election and their only victory being to get a little closer to vote counters in certain states. If a Republican voter still needs an investigation to prove anything then results really aren't proving anything because there's 4 years of recent history that is clear and there to see and ingest to form your opinion. What does another Mueller report do when the existing one was ignored by the right? We now want more reports to prove that he's wrong on things he can't prove himself? Sounds to me like the left has to stop being so accepting of being shit on and stand up for themselves. More investigations won't do anything. But action on Jan 21 surely will. I predict it's more talk and little action. There some that will always be MAGA and Qanon nuts, but there is a portion of the GOP base that are not radicals. Those are the people you want to establish law and order for. Those folks will take prosecutions and trials seriously. Weather they like it or not GOP voters are the minority and as the US population grows, non college educated whites a smaller minority. they will have two choices, act like grown ups to have their voices heard or get angry and support clowns like Trump who may no longer have the EC votes to win. The dem's can flip rational GOP voters with good policy and taking out the trash of the last 4 years. My concern is that policy will be fought tooth and nail by the extremists and that has to make them want to fight harder now that they have the power to do so. Obama never had a fair shot to do what he wanted. Biden might get to make real change like hasn't been seen in a long time. And not just change that makes the 1% richer. They need real social policy advancements down there and need to get back to taking care of each other and that stuff comes via the socialist policies that the nuts are willing to die over it seems. Fact is that those 74 million voters are driven by key factors that the Dem's aren't going to agree on like abortion, gun control, and the economy and how it functions.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 16:39:54 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 7, 2021 16:39:54 GMT -4
There some that will always be MAGA and Qanon nuts, but there is a portion of the GOP base that are not radicals. Those are the people you want to establish law and order for. Those folks will take prosecutions and trials seriously. Weather they like it or not GOP voters are the minority and as the US population grows, non college educated whites a smaller minority. they will have two choices, act like grown ups to have their voices heard or get angry and support clowns like Trump who may no longer have the EC votes to win. The dem's can flip rational GOP voters with good policy and taking out the trash of the last 4 years. My concern is that policy will be fought tooth and nail by the extremists and that has to make them want to fight harder now that they have the power to do so. Obama never had a fair shot to do what he wanted. Biden might get to make real change like hasn't been seen in a long time. And not just change that makes the 1% richer. They need real social policy advancements down there and need to get back to taking care of each other and that stuff comes via the socialist policies that the nuts are willing to die over it seems. Fact is that those 74 million voters are driven by key factors that the Dem's aren't going to agree on like abortion, gun control, and the economy and how it functions. If the Dems are smart the next 2 years with all 3 levels they increase taxes on the rich to avoid bankrupting their country and they make DC and Puerto Rico as states. They would be more populated than some existing states.
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Trump
Jan 7, 2021 23:21:11 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Jan 7, 2021 23:21:11 GMT -4
Rudy talking about trial by combat yesterday.... I am like wait... WHAT??? Was he watching GOT during his Covid rest?
His family needs to have an intervention already...
luckily it is only 13 days left. .
This man has access to the nuke codes, and facing double digit serious investigations as soon as he's out of office. He has nothing to lose and runs entirely on personal grievances. 13 days is a long time. Resignations are starting to come in fast and the 25th amendment needs to happen immediately. If these baffoons can get this close to the elected officials with relative ease how vulnerable is the US to attack from a foreign enemy right now? Also for anyone thinking we in Canada aren't going to see Trumpism arrive here, there was a rally outside Calgary city hall in support of this insurrection. Every country is vulnerable to Populism, especially with the radicalization you see on social media via disinformation. Go into any facebook news chasers page and you will see exactly the type of people who think like the folks you saw storm the capitol today. There are a lot more people that believe that Trudeau was setting up covid internment camps and planning for some great reset with a kabal of global leaders than you'd probably think. Things like Qanon haven't entirely hit mainstream in Canada yet but trust me the movement is growing. The woman who was shot in the Capitol today believe heavily in Qanon and other conspiracies and likely genuinely believed she was saving humanity. Populism is gaining traction in the Western world because western governments have not served their people well. I could go into this in greater detail but I don't have the time and I don't think anyone really wants to read an essay.
I will say this because you mention Trudeau - wait a year or two when his government has to figure out how to pay the Covid bill. I'm right of center and I know taxes are going to go up but whose taxes are going to go up and what effect is this going to have on the economy? Even before Covid hit the Canadian economy was in trouble, Trudeau's economic and regulatory policy had led a structural deficit and the country had lost billions of investment but that was okay with Justin because it was being lost mainly in Alberta and Saskatchewan. There are a lot of young men in this country who were making a lot of money in the oil patch who aren't right now... these young men have every right to feel resentful about a government that has made their lives worse off.
Look at how small business owners have been treated versus billionaires like Bezos during Covid. Bezos has made even more billions while small business owners have been treated like potential mass murderers. A few years ago small business owners in Canada were called tax cheats by our PM. Meanwhile what is he on... his third ethics charge? It also doesn't help when if you are against Trudeau's economic policy that you are called deplorable at best and fascist at worst by his supporters and most of the media in Canada... Rosemary Barton on CBC and Lisa Laflamme on CTV basically fawn all over him and have not made any effort since 2015 to hold him accountable. I admit there are wingnuts who believe conspiracy theories about him that you have alluded to but there are right of center voters like myself who have legitimate policy beefs with him. I got suckered into voting for him in 2015 because I was tired of Harper and I liked my future MP in Andy Filmore and I liked the infrastructure plan the Liberals were bringing in .... 5 years later 40% of that infrastructure $$ is unaccounted for and because Jasmeet Singh cares more about being NDP leader it is taking way too long for the Liberals to be held accountable for where that money has been spent.
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 0:18:54 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Jan 8, 2021 0:18:54 GMT -4
This man has access to the nuke codes, and facing double digit serious investigations as soon as he's out of office. He has nothing to lose and runs entirely on personal grievances. 13 days is a long time. Resignations are starting to come in fast and the 25th amendment needs to happen immediately. If these baffoons can get this close to the elected officials with relative ease how vulnerable is the US to attack from a foreign enemy right now? Also for anyone thinking we in Canada aren't going to see Trumpism arrive here, there was a rally outside Calgary city hall in support of this insurrection. Every country is vulnerable to Populism, especially with the radicalization you see on social media via disinformation. Go into any facebook news chasers page and you will see exactly the type of people who think like the folks you saw storm the capitol today. There are a lot more people that believe that Trudeau was setting up covid internment camps and planning for some great reset with a kabal of global leaders than you'd probably think. Things like Qanon haven't entirely hit mainstream in Canada yet but trust me the movement is growing. The woman who was shot in the Capitol today believe heavily in Qanon and other conspiracies and likely genuinely believed she was saving humanity. Populism is gaining traction in the Western world because western governments have not served their people well. I could go into this in greater detail but I don't have the time and I don't think anyone really wants to read an essay.
I will say this because you mention Trudeau - wait a year or two when his government has to figure out how to pay the Covid bill. I'm right of center and I know taxes are going to go up but whose taxes are going to go up and what effect is this going to have on the economy? Even before Covid hit the Canadian economy was in trouble, Trudeau's economic and regulatory policy had led a structural deficit and the country had lost billions of investment but that was okay with Justin because it was being lost mainly in Alberta and Saskatchewan. There are a lot of young men in this country who were making a lot of money in the oil patch who aren't right now... these young men have every right to feel resentful about a government that has made their lives worse off. Look at how small business owners have been treated versus billionaires like Bezos during Covid. Bezos has made even more billions while small business owners have been treated like potential mass murderers. A few years ago small business owners in Canada were called tax cheats by our PM. Meanwhile what is he on... his third ethics charge? It also doesn't help when if you are against Trudeau's economic policy that you are called deplorable at best and fascist at worst by his supporters and most of the media in Canada... Rosemary Barton on CBC and Lisa Laflamme on CTV basically fawn all over him and have not made any effort since 2015 to hold him accountable. I admit there are wingnuts who believe conspiracy theories about him that you have alluded to but there are right of center voters like myself who have legitimate policy beefs with him. I got suckered into voting for him in 2015 because I was tired of Harper and I liked my future MP in Andy Filmore and I liked the infrastructure plan the Liberals were bringing in .... 5 years later 40% of that infrastructure $$ is unaccounted for and because Jasmeet Singh cares more about being NDP leader it is taking way too long for the Liberals to be held accountable for where that money has been spent.
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
I am not talking about policy and I didn't vote for Trudeau in the last election. I'm talking specifically about disinformation & conspiracy theories that are fueled through social media. There are people out there that genuinely believe Trudeau is part of some New World Order or secret kabal or going to invoke Martial Law. The NS shooter liquidated his assets into cash because he believed that Trudeau was going to seize money from every citizen in Canada. People believe this shit and its dangerous. What happened yesterday was not a result of policy differences. It was fanning of the flames of people who's brains have been fed propaganda for years. These people are not thinking straight, they get in the building then what? Overtake the government? There are videos circulating now of this woman who was killed during the insurrection ranting and raving on her phone and she appears extremely disturbed. For nearly 2 months these people had been convinced the election was getting overturned when there was zero chance of this ever happening. The resulting violence is not suprising. Everyone can have their say on how they feel about policy or the best way to govern but this is something entirely different. These conspiracies need to be stomped early before they spread further. Certain people are more susceptible than others. We've seen many smaller incidents in Canada related to someone doing something extreme who was exposed to disinformation. Trump's presidential bid was started on the racist birther conspiracy and it will end shamelessly on the rigged election conspiracy.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 8:43:17 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 8, 2021 8:43:17 GMT -4
This man has access to the nuke codes, and facing double digit serious investigations as soon as he's out of office. He has nothing to lose and runs entirely on personal grievances. 13 days is a long time. Resignations are starting to come in fast and the 25th amendment needs to happen immediately. If these baffoons can get this close to the elected officials with relative ease how vulnerable is the US to attack from a foreign enemy right now? Also for anyone thinking we in Canada aren't going to see Trumpism arrive here, there was a rally outside Calgary city hall in support of this insurrection. Every country is vulnerable to Populism, especially with the radicalization you see on social media via disinformation. Go into any facebook news chasers page and you will see exactly the type of people who think like the folks you saw storm the capitol today. There are a lot more people that believe that Trudeau was setting up covid internment camps and planning for some great reset with a kabal of global leaders than you'd probably think. Things like Qanon haven't entirely hit mainstream in Canada yet but trust me the movement is growing. The woman who was shot in the Capitol today believe heavily in Qanon and other conspiracies and likely genuinely believed she was saving humanity. Populism is gaining traction in the Western world because western governments have not served their people well. I could go into this in greater detail but I don't have the time and I don't think anyone really wants to read an essay.
I will say this because you mention Trudeau - wait a year or two when his government has to figure out how to pay the Covid bill. I'm right of center and I know taxes are going to go up but whose taxes are going to go up and what effect is this going to have on the economy? Even before Covid hit the Canadian economy was in trouble, Trudeau's economic and regulatory policy had led a structural deficit and the country had lost billions of investment but that was okay with Justin because it was being lost mainly in Alberta and Saskatchewan. There are a lot of young men in this country who were making a lot of money in the oil patch who aren't right now... these young men have every right to feel resentful about a government that has made their lives worse off. Look at how small business owners have been treated versus billionaires like Bezos during Covid. Bezos has made even more billions while small business owners have been treated like potential mass murderers. A few years ago small business owners in Canada were called tax cheats by our PM. Meanwhile what is he on... his third ethics charge? It also doesn't help when if you are against Trudeau's economic policy that you are called deplorable at best and fascist at worst by his supporters and most of the media in Canada... Rosemary Barton on CBC and Lisa Laflamme on CTV basically fawn all over him and have not made any effort since 2015 to hold him accountable. I admit there are wingnuts who believe conspiracy theories about him that you have alluded to but there are right of center voters like myself who have legitimate policy beefs with him. I got suckered into voting for him in 2015 because I was tired of Harper and I liked my future MP in Andy Filmore and I liked the infrastructure plan the Liberals were bringing in .... 5 years later 40% of that infrastructure $$ is unaccounted for and because Jasmeet Singh cares more about being NDP leader it is taking way too long for the Liberals to be held accountable for where that money has been spent.
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
Pupulism was a fad, Trump won an election where his opponent had 3M more votes than him, then his side lost the mid terms 2 years later because of him and he lost his spot 2 years after that. It was also behind Brexit, which is now only favored by 39% on Britain. Conservative candidates across the world have two choices going forward, stand for real conservatism or stand for the racist anti-immigrant, white nationalist grievance victimhood that Trump has been on.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 8:45:49 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 8, 2021 8:45:49 GMT -4
Populism is gaining traction in the Western world because western governments have not served their people well. I could go into this in greater detail but I don't have the time and I don't think anyone really wants to read an essay.
I will say this because you mention Trudeau - wait a year or two when his government has to figure out how to pay the Covid bill. I'm right of center and I know taxes are going to go up but whose taxes are going to go up and what effect is this going to have on the economy? Even before Covid hit the Canadian economy was in trouble, Trudeau's economic and regulatory policy had led a structural deficit and the country had lost billions of investment but that was okay with Justin because it was being lost mainly in Alberta and Saskatchewan. There are a lot of young men in this country who were making a lot of money in the oil patch who aren't right now... these young men have every right to feel resentful about a government that has made their lives worse off. Look at how small business owners have been treated versus billionaires like Bezos during Covid. Bezos has made even more billions while small business owners have been treated like potential mass murderers. A few years ago small business owners in Canada were called tax cheats by our PM. Meanwhile what is he on... his third ethics charge? It also doesn't help when if you are against Trudeau's economic policy that you are called deplorable at best and fascist at worst by his supporters and most of the media in Canada... Rosemary Barton on CBC and Lisa Laflamme on CTV basically fawn all over him and have not made any effort since 2015 to hold him accountable. I admit there are wingnuts who believe conspiracy theories about him that you have alluded to but there are right of center voters like myself who have legitimate policy beefs with him. I got suckered into voting for him in 2015 because I was tired of Harper and I liked my future MP in Andy Filmore and I liked the infrastructure plan the Liberals were bringing in .... 5 years later 40% of that infrastructure $$ is unaccounted for and because Jasmeet Singh cares more about being NDP leader it is taking way too long for the Liberals to be held accountable for where that money has been spent.
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
I am not talking about policy and I didn't vote for Trudeau in the last election. I'm talking specifically about disinformation & conspiracy theories that are fueled through social media. There are people out there that genuinely believe Trudeau is part of some New World Order or secret kabal or going to invoke Martial Law. The NS shooter liquidated his assets into cash because he believed that Trudeau was going to seize money from every citizen in Canada. People believe this shit and its dangerous. What happened yesterday was not a result of policy differences. It was fanning of the flames of people who's brains have been fed propaganda for years. These people are not thinking straight, they get in the building then what? Overtake the government? There are videos circulating now of this woman who was killed during the insurrection ranting and raving on her phone and she appears extremely disturbed. For nearly 2 months these people had been convinced the election was getting overturned when there was zero chance of this ever happening. The resulting violence is not suprising. Everyone can have their say on how they feel about policy or the best way to govern but this is something entirely different. These conspiracies need to be stomped early before they spread further. Certain people are more susceptible than others. We've seen many smaller incidents in Canada related to someone doing something extreme who was exposed to disinformation. Trump's presidential bid was started on the racist birther conspiracy and it will end shamelessly on the rigged election conspiracy. This is very well said. It's a HUGE difference between people with differing beliefs and having folks who are spoon fed disinformation and conspiracy theories by people that KNOW better but do it to rile up their own supporters. This is exactly what Qanon is.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 10:04:36 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 8, 2021 10:04:36 GMT -4
This man has access to the nuke codes, and facing double digit serious investigations as soon as he's out of office. He has nothing to lose and runs entirely on personal grievances. 13 days is a long time. Resignations are starting to come in fast and the 25th amendment needs to happen immediately. If these baffoons can get this close to the elected officials with relative ease how vulnerable is the US to attack from a foreign enemy right now? Also for anyone thinking we in Canada aren't going to see Trumpism arrive here, there was a rally outside Calgary city hall in support of this insurrection. Every country is vulnerable to Populism, especially with the radicalization you see on social media via disinformation. Go into any facebook news chasers page and you will see exactly the type of people who think like the folks you saw storm the capitol today. There are a lot more people that believe that Trudeau was setting up covid internment camps and planning for some great reset with a kabal of global leaders than you'd probably think. Things like Qanon haven't entirely hit mainstream in Canada yet but trust me the movement is growing. The woman who was shot in the Capitol today believe heavily in Qanon and other conspiracies and likely genuinely believed she was saving humanity. Populism is gaining traction in the Western world because western governments have not served their people well. I could go into this in greater detail but I don't have the time and I don't think anyone really wants to read an essay.
I will say this because you mention Trudeau - wait a year or two when his government has to figure out how to pay the Covid bill. I'm right of center and I know taxes are going to go up but whose taxes are going to go up and what effect is this going to have on the economy? Even before Covid hit the Canadian economy was in trouble, Trudeau's economic and regulatory policy had led a structural deficit and the country had lost billions of investment but that was okay with Justin because it was being lost mainly in Alberta and Saskatchewan. There are a lot of young men in this country who were making a lot of money in the oil patch who aren't right now... these young men have every right to feel resentful about a government that has made their lives worse off. Look at how small business owners have been treated versus billionaires like Bezos during Covid. Bezos has made even more billions while small business owners have been treated like potential mass murderers. A few years ago small business owners in Canada were called tax cheats by our PM. Meanwhile what is he on... his third ethics charge? It also doesn't help when if you are against Trudeau's economic policy that you are called deplorable at best and fascist at worst by his supporters and most of the media in Canada... Rosemary Barton on CBC and Lisa Laflamme on CTV basically fawn all over him and have not made any effort since 2015 to hold him accountable. I admit there are wingnuts who believe conspiracy theories about him that you have alluded to but there are right of center voters like myself who have legitimate policy beefs with him. I got suckered into voting for him in 2015 because I was tired of Harper and I liked my future MP in Andy Filmore and I liked the infrastructure plan the Liberals were bringing in .... 5 years later 40% of that infrastructure $$ is unaccounted for and because Jasmeet Singh cares more about being NDP leader it is taking way too long for the Liberals to be held accountable for where that money has been spent.
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
What Trudeau haters never seem to get: Canada is not electing Trudeau as much as it is refusing to elect a Conservative goverment led by people like Scheer and O'Toole. And since the NDP is SO far left most don't consider them an option it comes down to a Western Canada influenced right winger with questionable ethics and hidden agendas around things like abortion that are not needing to be brought up as policy items or Trudeau with some ethics violations. Give me 10 We scandals over 1 Andrew Scheer any day. If Canada had elected Scheer we would have less debt. And our country would be an absolute mess. Trudeau saved a lot of folks I know with CERB who never qualified for EI. Cons argued against helping our people. Look at the US and giving 2 $600 checks in comparison. We made the right call with a Trudeau minority. And the Cons did themselves no favor electing O'Toole to run against him next time. It's not anyone BUT Trudeau when most of Canada votes. It's Liberals vs Cons and the Cons keep putting up American lite politicians. Blame the Conservative party of Canada for Trudeau getting elected.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 10:24:10 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Jan 8, 2021 10:24:10 GMT -4
Populism is gaining traction in the Western world because western governments have not served their people well. I could go into this in greater detail but I don't have the time and I don't think anyone really wants to read an essay.
I will say this because you mention Trudeau - wait a year or two when his government has to figure out how to pay the Covid bill. I'm right of center and I know taxes are going to go up but whose taxes are going to go up and what effect is this going to have on the economy? Even before Covid hit the Canadian economy was in trouble, Trudeau's economic and regulatory policy had led a structural deficit and the country had lost billions of investment but that was okay with Justin because it was being lost mainly in Alberta and Saskatchewan. There are a lot of young men in this country who were making a lot of money in the oil patch who aren't right now... these young men have every right to feel resentful about a government that has made their lives worse off. Look at how small business owners have been treated versus billionaires like Bezos during Covid. Bezos has made even more billions while small business owners have been treated like potential mass murderers. A few years ago small business owners in Canada were called tax cheats by our PM. Meanwhile what is he on... his third ethics charge? It also doesn't help when if you are against Trudeau's economic policy that you are called deplorable at best and fascist at worst by his supporters and most of the media in Canada... Rosemary Barton on CBC and Lisa Laflamme on CTV basically fawn all over him and have not made any effort since 2015 to hold him accountable. I admit there are wingnuts who believe conspiracy theories about him that you have alluded to but there are right of center voters like myself who have legitimate policy beefs with him. I got suckered into voting for him in 2015 because I was tired of Harper and I liked my future MP in Andy Filmore and I liked the infrastructure plan the Liberals were bringing in .... 5 years later 40% of that infrastructure $$ is unaccounted for and because Jasmeet Singh cares more about being NDP leader it is taking way too long for the Liberals to be held accountable for where that money has been spent.
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
What Trudeau haters never seem to get: Canada is not electing Trudeau as much as it is refusing to elect a Conservative goverment led by people like Scheer and O'Toole. And since the NDP is SO far left most don't consider them an option it comes down to a Western Canada influenced right winger with questionable ethics and hidden agendas around things like abortion that are not needing to be brought up as policy items or Trudeau with some ethics violations. Give me 10 We scandals over 1 Andrew Scheer any day. If Canada had elected Scheer we would have less debt. And our country would be an absolute mess. Trudeau saved a lot of folks I know with CERB who never qualified for EI. Cons argued against helping our people. Look at the US and giving 2 $600 checks in comparison. We made the right call with a Trudeau minority. And the Cons did themselves no favor electing O'Toole to run against him next time. It's not anyone BUT Trudeau when most of Canada votes. It's Liberals vs Cons and the Cons keep putting up American lite politicians. Blame the Conservative party of Canada for Trudeau getting elected. Yeah, even though his post here says he wants Trudeau to be held accountable for the debt via an election, if an election is called today he likely wins another minority again, and has a slim chance at a majority based on current polling. O'Toole isn't bringing in any new voters with his current rhetoric and having MP's like Derek Sloan putting doubt in vaccines, and racism. I'd love to see our country have a strong fiscally conservative party whos socially progressive to balance things out but we are just getting more of the same. Singh is likely in the spot he wants to be in. He can do things like when he got Trudeau to increase the unemployment benefits number. He's unlikely to bring down the government because his party does not have the money to run another election.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 10:41:45 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 8, 2021 10:41:45 GMT -4
What Trudeau haters never seem to get: Canada is not electing Trudeau as much as it is refusing to elect a Conservative goverment led by people like Scheer and O'Toole. And since the NDP is SO far left most don't consider them an option it comes down to a Western Canada influenced right winger with questionable ethics and hidden agendas around things like abortion that are not needing to be brought up as policy items or Trudeau with some ethics violations. Give me 10 We scandals over 1 Andrew Scheer any day. If Canada had elected Scheer we would have less debt. And our country would be an absolute mess. Trudeau saved a lot of folks I know with CERB who never qualified for EI. Cons argued against helping our people. Look at the US and giving 2 $600 checks in comparison. We made the right call with a Trudeau minority. And the Cons did themselves no favor electing O'Toole to run against him next time. It's not anyone BUT Trudeau when most of Canada votes. It's Liberals vs Cons and the Cons keep putting up American lite politicians. Blame the Conservative party of Canada for Trudeau getting elected. Yeah, even though his post here says he wants Trudeau to be held accountable for the debt via an election, if an election is called today he likely wins another minority again, and has a slim chance at a majority based on current polling. O'Toole isn't bringing in any new voters with his current rhetoric and having MP's like Derek Sloan putting doubt in vaccines, and racism. I'd love to see our country have a strong fiscally conservative party whos socially progressive to balance things out but we are just getting more of the same. Singh is likely in the spot he wants to be in. He can do things like when he got Trudeau to increase the unemployment benefits number. He's unlikely to bring down the government because his party does not have the money to run another election. Another risk for the NDP is 23-30% of their voters slide a bit to the center and they end up irrelevant. In NB, the NDP has fallen behind the greens.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 11:07:46 GMT -4
Post by lirette on Jan 8, 2021 11:07:46 GMT -4
Yeah, even though his post here says he wants Trudeau to be held accountable for the debt via an election, if an election is called today he likely wins another minority again, and has a slim chance at a majority based on current polling. O'Toole isn't bringing in any new voters with his current rhetoric and having MP's like Derek Sloan putting doubt in vaccines, and racism. I'd love to see our country have a strong fiscally conservative party whos socially progressive to balance things out but we are just getting more of the same. Singh is likely in the spot he wants to be in. He can do things like when he got Trudeau to increase the unemployment benefits number. He's unlikely to bring down the government because his party does not have the money to run another election. Another risk for the NDP is 23-30% of their voters slide a bit to the center and they end up irrelevant. In NB, the NDP has fallen behind the greens. If the NDP & Greens were to team up perhaps they'd have a stronger party, but they have 2 very different messages s not sure how that would work. NDP in NB has hardly any money, and has ended up being more of a starting point for young kids to try their hand at politics running MLA campaigns. They get their message out there but in many of these ridings they have zero chance at winning. I find that provincial politics and federal politics are an entirely different beast.
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