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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 12:04:52 GMT -4
Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 8, 2021 12:04:52 GMT -4
What Trudeau haters never seem to get: Canada is not electing Trudeau as much as it is refusing to elect a Conservative goverment led by people like Scheer and O'Toole. And since the NDP is SO far left most don't consider them an option it comes down to a Western Canada influenced right winger with questionable ethics and hidden agendas around things like abortion that are not needing to be brought up as policy items or Trudeau with some ethics violations. Give me 10 We scandals over 1 Andrew Scheer any day. If Canada had elected Scheer we would have less debt. And our country would be an absolute mess. Trudeau saved a lot of folks I know with CERB who never qualified for EI. Cons argued against helping our people. Look at the US and giving 2 $600 checks in comparison. We made the right call with a Trudeau minority. And the Cons did themselves no favor electing O'Toole to run against him next time. It's not anyone BUT Trudeau when most of Canada votes. It's Liberals vs Cons and the Cons keep putting up American lite politicians. Blame the Conservative party of Canada for Trudeau getting elected. Yeah, even though his post here says he wants Trudeau to be held accountable for the debt via an election, if an election is called today he likely wins another minority again, and has a slim chance at a majority based on current polling. O'Toole isn't bringing in any new voters with his current rhetoric and having MP's like Derek Sloan putting doubt in vaccines, and racism. I'd love to see our country have a strong fiscally conservative party whos socially progressive to balance things out but we are just getting more of the same. Singh is likely in the spot he wants to be in. He can do things like when he got Trudeau to increase the unemployment benefits number. He's unlikely to bring down the government because his party does not have the money to run another election. A socially progressive Conservative Party wins a majority government easily in this country at the moment. That's why watching them elect mini Trump's is just so laughable and shows how tone deaf their voting members are. But most of them are in the same echo chambers promoting the stuff you're saying and doubting vaccines, racism, pushing for abortion to be brought up again, etc as their talking points into wanting to form a government so they think that IS what a majority want because I mean if the 1400 people in "insert facebook conspiracy group here" are behind "insert silly conspiracy theory here" then surely everyone is on board.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 14:21:21 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by lirette on Jan 8, 2021 14:21:21 GMT -4
www.bellingcat.com/news/2021/01/08/the-journey-of-ashli-babbitt/An incredible piece of journalism / investigation detailing how Ashlie Babbitt went from an Obama Supporter to a conspiracy believing qanon follower who got herself shot storming the Capitol. Also provides details with video of the events inside the Capitol. Making you realize how close this was to the entirety of the Congress & Senate being exposed to mass armed mob.
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Trump
Jan 8, 2021 15:59:43 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 8, 2021 15:59:43 GMT -4
Populism is gaining traction in the Western world because western governments have not served their people well. I could go into this in greater detail but I don't have the time and I don't think anyone really wants to read an essay.
I will say this because you mention Trudeau - wait a year or two when his government has to figure out how to pay the Covid bill. I'm right of center and I know taxes are going to go up but whose taxes are going to go up and what effect is this going to have on the economy? Even before Covid hit the Canadian economy was in trouble, Trudeau's economic and regulatory policy had led a structural deficit and the country had lost billions of investment but that was okay with Justin because it was being lost mainly in Alberta and Saskatchewan. There are a lot of young men in this country who were making a lot of money in the oil patch who aren't right now... these young men have every right to feel resentful about a government that has made their lives worse off. Look at how small business owners have been treated versus billionaires like Bezos during Covid. Bezos has made even more billions while small business owners have been treated like potential mass murderers. A few years ago small business owners in Canada were called tax cheats by our PM. Meanwhile what is he on... his third ethics charge? It also doesn't help when if you are against Trudeau's economic policy that you are called deplorable at best and fascist at worst by his supporters and most of the media in Canada... Rosemary Barton on CBC and Lisa Laflamme on CTV basically fawn all over him and have not made any effort since 2015 to hold him accountable. I admit there are wingnuts who believe conspiracy theories about him that you have alluded to but there are right of center voters like myself who have legitimate policy beefs with him. I got suckered into voting for him in 2015 because I was tired of Harper and I liked my future MP in Andy Filmore and I liked the infrastructure plan the Liberals were bringing in .... 5 years later 40% of that infrastructure $$ is unaccounted for and because Jasmeet Singh cares more about being NDP leader it is taking way too long for the Liberals to be held accountable for where that money has been spent.
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
What Trudeau haters never seem to get: Canada is not electing Trudeau as much as it is refusing to elect a Conservative goverment led by people like Scheer and O'Toole. And since the NDP is SO far left most don't consider them an option it comes down to a Western Canada influenced right winger with questionable ethics and hidden agendas around things like abortion that are not needing to be brought up as policy items or Trudeau with some ethics violations. Give me 10 We scandals over 1 Andrew Scheer any day. If Canada had elected Scheer we would have less debt. And our country would be an absolute mess. Trudeau saved a lot of folks I know with CERB who never qualified for EI. Cons argued against helping our people. Look at the US and giving 2 $600 checks in comparison. We made the right call with a Trudeau minority. And the Cons did themselves no favor electing O'Toole to run against him next time. It's not anyone BUT Trudeau when most of Canada votes. It's Liberals vs Cons and the Cons keep putting up American lite politicians. Blame the Conservative party of Canada for Trudeau getting elected. Nobody actually makes a call when you elect a minority government. The Liberals received 33% of the vote, so 67% of the voters chose "not Liberal". The Cons actually had 34% of the vote, but that didn't work out into more seats for them. So "we didn't make the right call" ... it just ended up that way even though we tried to get anybody but Trudeau. Its almost sickening when you look closely at the numbers. Trudeau knew what he was doing when he "dropped the ball" on election reform. I agree with everything else though. All the Cons had to do was roll somebody out there that could appear human, and they win. Nope ... they went with Scheer who makes everybody in Canada cringe. O'Toole is a little better but still cringe worthy.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 3:01:02 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by Citris on Jan 9, 2021 3:01:02 GMT -4
Trump banned from twitter. A lot of right wing propaganda accounts being hit as well. Parlor (twitter for nazis) is being removed from google play and the apple store.... it's a good day.
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Post by Citris on Jan 9, 2021 11:59:56 GMT -4
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
I don't like language like this, conservatives tend to do this a lot, they use weasel words to mask their true beliefs. Trump spoke to them.... spoke to their what? He spoke to their racism and xenophobia. He spoke to their fear of "the other". Same thing wit the whole "the civil war was fought over states rights" "A states right to do what?" I don't like masking bigotry behind flowery language. Trump supporters weren't chanting "I WANT A TAX CUT THAT'S GOING TO BE A TAX INCREASE IN 4 YEARS" they were chanting "BUILD THE WALL".
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 12:31:45 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Jan 9, 2021 12:31:45 GMT -4
Anyways a final note on populism... not all populists are right wing... Hugo Chavez came into power as a populist who ran against the elite as well. Trump came into power because he spoke to a lot of people who felt left behind and had been cast aside by pretty much all Democrats and most Republicans.
I don't like language like this, conservatives tend to do this a lot, they use weasel words to mask their true beliefs. Trump spoke to them.... spoke to their what? He spoke to their racism and xenophobia. He spoke to their fear of "the other". Same thing wit the whole "the civil war was fought over states rights" "A states right to do what?" I don't like masking bigotry behind flowery language. Trump supporters weren't chanting "I WANT A TAX CUT THAT'S GOING TO BE A TAX INCREASE IN 4 YEARS" they were chanting "BUILD THE WALL". Trump spoke to feelings of economic insecurity in the Midwest. We can argue over the cause of these feelings but denying these feelings exist is irresponsible.
He spoke to people who see globalism as a major threat to their way of life. Globalism is a nice thing to think about in theory but in reality it is the politicians and big business screwing over the middle class and letting China , or rather the CCP just so the race card isn't thrown back at me, run amok.
He spoke to people who see Washington politicians and bureaucrats as having a negative influence on their lives through overregulation.
He spoke to people who were against illegal immigration, not because they are racist, but because allowing illegal immigrants in drives wages down. You increase the supply of any good or service, what happens? The price goes down, Grade 11 economics is enough to tell you this.
He spoke to people who saw Democrats as soft on crime - you look at the cities where crime is a major problem back in 2016 such as Chicago, Philidelphia, Baltimore, Detroit... these cities have been run by Democrats for decades and now these are the same people who want to defund the police. I agree that police shouldn't have military grade assault weapons and there are obviously tasks that should be performed by child services/social services but you look at places where cuts have been made like LA and NY and no cash bail brought in and you see a spike in crime.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 12:44:00 GMT -4
Post by Citris on Jan 9, 2021 12:44:00 GMT -4
Trump spoke to feelings of economic insecurity in the Midwest. We can argue over the cause of these feelings but denying these feelings exist is irresponsible.
He spoke to people who see globalism as a major threat to their way of life. Globalism is a nice thing to think about in theory but in reality it is the politicians and big business screwing over the middle class and letting China , or rather the CCP just so the race card isn't thrown back at me, run amok.
He spoke to people who see Washington politicians and bureaucrats as having a negative influence on their lives through overregulation.
He spoke to people who were against illegal immigration, not because they are racist, but because allowing illegal immigrants in drives wages down. You increase the supply of any good or service, what happens? The price goes down, Grade 11 economics is enough to tell you this.
He spoke to people who saw Democrats as soft on crime - you look at the cities where crime is a major problem back in 2016 such as Chicago, Philidelphia, Baltimore, Detroit... these cities have been run by Democrats for decades and now these are the same people who want to defund the police. I agree that police shouldn't have military grade assault weapons and there are obviously tasks that should be performed by child services/social services but you look at places where cuts have been made like LA and NY and no cash bail brought in and you see a spike in crime.
Nah. He spoke to their bigotry. Period. I'm not buying this "economic anxiety" bs. Don't grade 11 economics me when any serious economist will tell you that immigration is good for the economy. Don't "soft on crime" me when we've seen what militarized police do. The crime rate is lower than it has been in decades. These arguments aren't based in reality. They're just excuses to put more police in poor (and often black and Hispanic) neighborhoods. It was racism. Plain and simple. Yes, it's mixed with ignorance, because the education system in the US is atrocious, the frustration of people who know there are problems in their country but don't have the education required to identify them, so when somebody like Trump comes along and points a finger at BIPOC they're more than willing to put the blame on them. Trump capitalized on the frustration of the white voter who is still enraged over the fact Obama was elected. Stop trying to intellectualize bigotry. edit - And I should be clear, a lot of republican voters are just ignorant and vote red because that's what they've always done, that's what their parents did, it's what their pastor tells them to do etc. But his vocal supporters were spurred on by hatred and fear.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 13:25:34 GMT -4
via mobile
Citris likes this
Post by lirette on Jan 9, 2021 13:25:34 GMT -4
I don't like language like this, conservatives tend to do this a lot, they use weasel words to mask their true beliefs. Trump spoke to them.... spoke to their what? He spoke to their racism and xenophobia. He spoke to their fear of "the other". Same thing wit the whole "the civil war was fought over states rights" "A states right to do what?" I don't like masking bigotry behind flowery language. Trump supporters weren't chanting "I WANT A TAX CUT THAT'S GOING TO BE A TAX INCREASE IN 4 YEARS" they were chanting "BUILD THE WALL". Trump spoke to feelings of economic insecurity in the Midwest. We can argue over the cause of these feelings but denying these feelings exist is irresponsible.
He spoke to people who see globalism as a major threat to their way of life. Globalism is a nice thing to think about in theory but in reality it is the politicians and big business screwing over the middle class and letting China , or rather the CCP just so the race card isn't thrown back at me, run amok.
He spoke to people who see Washington politicians and bureaucrats as having a negative influence on their lives through overregulation.
He spoke to people who were against illegal immigration, not because they are racist, but because allowing illegal immigrants in drives wages down. You increase the supply of any good or service, what happens? The price goes down, Grade 11 economics is enough to tell you this.
He spoke to people who saw Democrats as soft on crime - you look at the cities where crime is a major problem back in 2016 such as Chicago, Philidelphia, Baltimore, Detroit... these cities have been run by Democrats for decades and now these are the same people who want to defund the police. I agree that police shouldn't have military grade assault weapons and there are obviously tasks that should be performed by child services/social services but you look at places where cuts have been made like LA and NY and no cash bail brought in and you see a spike in crime.
The FBI has a document on its own website that warns against the very thing you are doing with crime statistics. Can be very misleading. I'd recommend you read it through and take it under consideration rather than just repeat stuff from Trump rallies. ucr.fbi.gov/ucr-statistics-their-proper-useIf you don't believe racism played a factor in Trump's support than why do we continue to see so many symbols of hate amongst his group of supporters at rallies, events and online? People attending the insurrection wearing shirts saying 6 million were not enough in reference to the Holocaust. Confederate flags, individuals reenacting George Floyd's death. Thousands of people chanting to lock up Ilhan Omar who's a US citizen who fled war torn Somalia when she was 8. Should we listen to the concerns of these types of individuals? Why are they so prominent at Trump rallies and not disavowed by Trump if his intention is just to save some underpaid mid Western workers? No disagreement that he found something that tapped into this group, but we cannot undersell the impact of his racist rhetoric. We must never let this type of rhetoric grow within our own politics here or elsewhere.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 16:16:17 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by yesisaiditfirst on Jan 9, 2021 16:16:17 GMT -4
We cant deny that some people voted Trump because he waved a banner that was not attached to all kinds of things that made them uncomfortable. That's the "everyone is a racist that voted him" argument.
But if you were an unemployed/underemployed auto worker in 2016 and you saw your type of job leaving the country year after year you probably responded favorably to someone talking directly to you. If you lived in Flint Michigan unemployed with toxic water flowing out your tap and someone gave you hope you might listen and respond accordingly. It easy to aspire to people who feel left behind. On the left or the right. Obamacare was a huge issue in driving 2016 votes either way.
But that doesnt make economic betterment voters racist, it may mean they are selfish looking after their own future. Biff in Detroit isnt responsible for all the racial dysfunction in the US. He does have mouths to feed.
My guess is in the 2020 election 75 % of law enforcement voted Republican. Now traditionally they do always vote for whoever has a pro law enforcement agenda. But I guess the 'defund the police' calls pushed them back from voting Biden.
Remember people generally dont trust politicians. Most people dont understand all the issues besides what challenges they face every day. Voting is heavily tied to emotion. That's why not everyone votes. So if all the Trump voters are racist then what do we call those who dont vote? In 2016 they denied Hillary the office by staying home. Does it make them all racist too because they dont give a s#@+? Didnt they have a patriotic duty to protect thy neighbour from Trump?
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 20:06:08 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Jan 9, 2021 20:06:08 GMT -4
Trump spoke to feelings of economic insecurity in the Midwest. We can argue over the cause of these feelings but denying these feelings exist is irresponsible.
He spoke to people who see globalism as a major threat to their way of life. Globalism is a nice thing to think about in theory but in reality it is the politicians and big business screwing over the middle class and letting China , or rather the CCP just so the race card isn't thrown back at me, run amok.
He spoke to people who see Washington politicians and bureaucrats as having a negative influence on their lives through overregulation.
He spoke to people who were against illegal immigration, not because they are racist, but because allowing illegal immigrants in drives wages down. You increase the supply of any good or service, what happens? The price goes down, Grade 11 economics is enough to tell you this.
He spoke to people who saw Democrats as soft on crime - you look at the cities where crime is a major problem back in 2016 such as Chicago, Philidelphia, Baltimore, Detroit... these cities have been run by Democrats for decades and now these are the same people who want to defund the police. I agree that police shouldn't have military grade assault weapons and there are obviously tasks that should be performed by child services/social services but you look at places where cuts have been made like LA and NY and no cash bail brought in and you see a spike in crime.
Nah. He spoke to their bigotry. Period. I'm not buying this "economic anxiety" bs. Don't grade 11 economics me when any serious economist will tell you that immigration is good for the economy. Don't "soft on crime" me when we've seen what militarized police do. The crime rate is lower than it has been in decades. These arguments aren't based in reality. They're just excuses to put more police in poor (and often black and Hispanic) neighborhoods. It was racism. Plain and simple. Yes, it's mixed with ignorance, because the education system in the US is atrocious, the frustration of people who know there are problems in their country but don't have the education required to identify them, so when somebody like Trump comes along and points a finger at BIPOC they're more than willing to put the blame on them. Trump capitalized on the frustration of the white voter who is still enraged over the fact Obama was elected. Stop trying to intellectualize bigotry. edit - And I should be clear, a lot of republican voters are just ignorant and vote red because that's what they've always done, that's what their parents did, it's what their pastor tells them to do etc. But his vocal supporters were spurred on by hatred and fear.
1) Skilled immigrants are great for the economy not unskilled labour which drives down wages for unskilled labour already in the country.
2) There a lot of white voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 who voted for Trump in 2016.
I'm not saying that there aren't any racists among the Trump base, I'm just disputing the notion that you are propagating on here judging by your posts and the underlying contempt with them that all Trump voters are racists and fascists.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 20:22:36 GMT -4
Post by Citris on Jan 9, 2021 20:22:36 GMT -4
1) Skilled immigrants are great for the economy not unskilled labour which drives down wages for unskilled labour already in the country.
2) There a lot of white voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 who voted for Trump in 2016.
I'm not saying that there aren't any racists among the Trump base, I'm just disputing the notion that you are propagating on here judging by your posts and the underlying contempt with them that all Trump voters are racists and fascists.
All Trump voters are racist or at least okay with racism. That's indisputable. Labour is a resource, an increase in a resource is great for the economy. Your problem is with capitalism, where the wealth generated by those unskilled workers ends up in the wrong pockets. Generating wealth is a good thing, the system we have which distributes wealth is shitty tho. But voting republican sure as hell isn't going to fix that. Also that's ignoring the fact that illegal immigration was again at a historic low in 2015-16, the fact that most illegal immigrants overstay visas, so what the hell is a wall going to do?? Nah, that's just racism. The wall was never meant for practical means, it was meant as a giant middle finger to Mexico. That's it.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 20:36:34 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Jan 9, 2021 20:36:34 GMT -4
Trump spoke to feelings of economic insecurity in the Midwest. We can argue over the cause of these feelings but denying these feelings exist is irresponsible.
He spoke to people who see globalism as a major threat to their way of life. Globalism is a nice thing to think about in theory but in reality it is the politicians and big business screwing over the middle class and letting China , or rather the CCP just so the race card isn't thrown back at me, run amok.
He spoke to people who see Washington politicians and bureaucrats as having a negative influence on their lives through overregulation.
He spoke to people who were against illegal immigration, not because they are racist, but because allowing illegal immigrants in drives wages down. You increase the supply of any good or service, what happens? The price goes down, Grade 11 economics is enough to tell you this.
He spoke to people who saw Democrats as soft on crime - you look at the cities where crime is a major problem back in 2016 such as Chicago, Philidelphia, Baltimore, Detroit... these cities have been run by Democrats for decades and now these are the same people who want to defund the police. I agree that police shouldn't have military grade assault weapons and there are obviously tasks that should be performed by child services/social services but you look at places where cuts have been made like LA and NY and no cash bail brought in and you see a spike in crime.
The FBI has a document on its own website that warns against the very thing you are doing with crime statistics. Can be very misleading. I'd recommend you read it through and take it under consideration rather than just repeat stuff from Trump rallies. ucr.fbi.gov/ucr-statistics-their-proper-useIf you don't believe racism played a factor in Trump's support than why do we continue to see so many symbols of hate amongst his group of supporters at rallies, events and online? People attending the insurrection wearing shirts saying 6 million were not enough in reference to the Holocaust. Confederate flags, individuals reenacting George Floyd's death. Thousands of people chanting to lock up Ilhan Omar who's a US citizen who fled war torn Somalia when she was 8. Should we listen to the concerns of these types of individuals? Why are they so prominent at Trump rallies and not disavowed by Trump if his intention is just to save some underpaid mid Western workers? No disagreement that he found something that tapped into this group, but we cannot undersell the impact of his racist rhetoric. We must never let this type of rhetoric grow within our own politics here or elsewhere. There are racists among the Trump base, there is no doubt of that but not all Trump voters are racist. A lot of people who voted for Trump are voters who plugged their noses and who wouldn't seriously consider voting for Hilary Clinton or any Democrat for that matter because the Democrat party doesn't match their value system.
Canadians need to understand that Americans are more inclined to value individualism, entrepreneurship and not relying on government than we are up here and the Republican party matches that type of thinking more than the Democrats do.
One could make an argument that Democrats are racist against blacks as well, it's just a lot more subtle than what you see coming from Southern Republicans. Democrats feel entitled to the black vote, you can see it with their actions and words when blacks leave the Democratic party ... look at the hatred that is sent the way of Candace Owens for example because she is slowly chipping away at the hold that the Democrats have with black voters whom the Democrats know they have to get 90% of to win elections ... at least up to 2020 but that is going to change as I don't see the Republicans putting forward any cohesive unit in 2022 for the midterms and in 2024 for the presidency. The only thing I can see changing that would be a slow recovery post Covid if Biden raises taxes too much and/or increases regulation.
Re Ilhan Omar - she really cast herself in a bad light with the " some people did something " line with respect to 9/11 and she said it with such a smugness that I wouldn't trust myself to be in the same room with her as when I saw it my blood boiled. That said I don't think her race and religion should be used against her, her policies and her statements are what she should be judged on.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 21:06:59 GMT -4
Post by Citris on Jan 9, 2021 21:06:59 GMT -4
There are racists among the Trump base, there is no doubt of that but not all Trump voters are racist. A lot of people who voted for Trump are voters who plugged their noses and who wouldn't seriously consider voting for Hilary Clinton or any Democrat for that matter because the Democrat party doesn't match their value system.
Canadians need to understand that Americans are more inclined to value individualism, entrepreneurship and not relying on government than we are up here and the Republican party matches that type of thinking more than the Democrats do.
One could make an argument that Democrats are racist against blacks as well, it's just a lot more subtle than what you see coming from Southern Republicans. Democrats feel entitled to the black vote, you can see it with their actions and words when blacks leave the Democratic party ... look at the hatred that is sent the way of Candace Owens for example because she is slowly chipping away at the hold that the Democrats have with black voters whom the Democrats know they have to get 90% of to win elections ... at least up to 2020 but that is going to change as I don't see the Republicans putting forward any cohesive unit in 2022 for the midterms and in 2024 for the presidency. The only thing I can see changing that would be a slow recovery post Covid if Biden raises taxes too much and/or increases regulation.
Re Ilhan Omar - she really cast herself in a bad light with the " some people did something " line with respect to 9/11 and she said it with such a smugness that I wouldn't trust myself to be in the same room with her as when I saw it my blood boiled. That said I don't think her race and religion should be used against her, her policies and her statements are what she should be judged on.
This is kind of the dodgy, flowery language that I was talking about - What value system don't they match which the republicans do? The only real answer is... well.. white supremacy. Also, of course Democrats "feel entitled" to the black vote, who else are they gonna vote for? The party that actively hates them? Trust me I don't like the Democrats, but unfortunately in the US you have a centrist party, and then a party that actively wants to drag the world back to the 1950's (well, except for the wealth gap, they want to make that wider.) I WISH we could shift the Overton window to the left so problems can actually start being addressed. The right is incapable of actually dealing with problems in society, their entire thing is just blaming others for their problems while giving money to the 1%. When's the last time a Republican has tried to solve a problem? And no, throwing police or military at it isn't a solution.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 21:16:32 GMT -4
Post by Citris on Jan 9, 2021 21:16:32 GMT -4
Anyway, I probably seem like I'm picking on themandalorian , so I'm going to give it a rest. The last thing I want to do is like, scare off a forum member. I obviously just have... very different political views. I don't think you're a bad person, but I do think you get your information from some pretty shitty outlets, and I would be willing to bet I could guess several of your twitter follows. Regardless, I should probably get to work on something else other than arguing in the Trump thread.
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Trump
Jan 9, 2021 22:12:24 GMT -4
Post by themandalorian on Jan 9, 2021 22:12:24 GMT -4
There are racists among the Trump base, there is no doubt of that but not all Trump voters are racist. A lot of people who voted for Trump are voters who plugged their noses and who wouldn't seriously consider voting for Hilary Clinton or any Democrat for that matter because the Democrat party doesn't match their value system.
Canadians need to understand that Americans are more inclined to value individualism, entrepreneurship and not relying on government than we are up here and the Republican party matches that type of thinking more than the Democrats do.
One could make an argument that Democrats are racist against blacks as well, it's just a lot more subtle than what you see coming from Southern Republicans. Democrats feel entitled to the black vote, you can see it with their actions and words when blacks leave the Democratic party ... look at the hatred that is sent the way of Candace Owens for example because she is slowly chipping away at the hold that the Democrats have with black voters whom the Democrats know they have to get 90% of to win elections ... at least up to 2020 but that is going to change as I don't see the Republicans putting forward any cohesive unit in 2022 for the midterms and in 2024 for the presidency. The only thing I can see changing that would be a slow recovery post Covid if Biden raises taxes too much and/or increases regulation.
Re Ilhan Omar - she really cast herself in a bad light with the " some people did something " line with respect to 9/11 and she said it with such a smugness that I wouldn't trust myself to be in the same room with her as when I saw it my blood boiled. That said I don't think her race and religion should be used against her, her policies and her statements are what she should be judged on.
This is kind of the dodgy, flowery language that I was talking about - What value system don't they match which the republicans do? The only real answer is... well.. white supremacy. Also, of course Democrats "feel entitled" to the black vote, who else are they gonna vote for? The party that actively hates them? Trust me I don't like the Democrats, but unfortunately in the US you have a centrist party, and then a party that actively wants to drag the world back to the 1950's (well, except for the wealth gap, they want to make that wider.) I WISH we could shift the Overton window to the left so problems can actually start being addressed. The right is incapable of actually dealing with problems in society, their entire thing is just blaming others for their problems while giving money to the 1%. When's the last time a Republican has tried to solve a problem? And no, throwing police or military at it isn't a solution. You highlight most of my first paragraph and then don't read my second one .
I will expand a bit- Republican voters are pro-business, they believe more in an America First philosophy, they want a strong military but aren't pro war unless it is necessary, they would rather rely on the free market than rely on government.
The ironic thing about income equality is that it is bigger in Democrat run cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago etc and the reason I say ironic is because this is a huge deal for Democrats and I can't fault them for wanting to solve it but their policies end up hurting the middle class and you are starting to see a small group of extremely rich people who vote Democrat and give lots of money to Democrats, a barely existing middle class which pays way too much in taxes and a huge group of poor people barely surviving due to high housing costs.
For all of Trump's faults he is the first President in decades that didn't start a new war that didn't already exist. That is why Pentagon leadership hated him , because he tried as much as he could to get troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. His rhetoric was incendiary and at times irresponsible but he acted early on back in 2017 with the strikes in Syria which showed he would act if the call had to be made which happened when Asaad used chemical weapons.
When was the last time a Republican tried to solve a problem? Trump tried to solve the China issue with respect to trade, the issue that Bush 43 and Obama ignored. Was he successful? It didn't bring as many jobs back as he boasted it would but it has hurt China, multinationals have started moving production to other countries like Vietnam, Thailand etc and this is going to continue as the world has seen the folly of outsourcing production of so many important products to China.. think PPE.
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