Trump

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Feb 15, 2018 12:45:46 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Totally outlawing guns will not solve the problem, that means that only criminals in gangs will have guns. It also ignores that there is a serious issue in mental health and how it is being dealt with. 

It actually would. It's an extreme option, but it would. No, it wouldn't stop ALL gun violence or all criminals, but it would have a massive effect on the safety of Americans. Criminals in gangs aren't holding off mugging someone out of fear they have a gun.

And Jack Bauer, as a whole you can somewhat blame all parties for not getting something significant done by now, but it is primarily 1 side really holding back. One party is heavily funded by the NRA, and one party will fight to the death to protect 2nd amendment. It's not even debatable. I'm sure you can point out some cases where Democrats pulled back on something (which I'm sure Republicans did too) that might have been a step towards gun control, but overall GOP members want nothing to do with restricting gun purchases.

[Captain Obvious]

Feb 15, 2018 12:45:46 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Totally outlawing guns will not solve the problem, that means that only criminals in gangs will have guns. It also ignores that there is a serious issue in mental health and how it is being dealt with. 

I don't think anybody is outlawing guns completely. Gangs are not the ones killing kids in schools, it's not Muslim immigrants or "dreamers" either.

There are very basic things that can be done that would AT least cut these mass shootings in half...if not by 75%. Look at the numbers of mass shootings across the countries where every Tom Dick and harry can't just go buy a military rifle.

-ban assault weapons. Any automatic or semi automatic weapon or the mods that can be applied should be 100% illegal.

-every country has mental health issues, the problem is in the US, Trump REPEALED a law that allowed those with certain mental illness to be denied guns. They trumpet the second amendment even when common sense says it should not be applied. It's the equivalent of Canada repealing drunk driving laws because it takes away a drunk's right to drive.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

-there is no reason those on terror watch lists or no fly lists can go out and buy military assault weapons.

The GOP and NRA keep trumpeting the second amendment but when that came to pass it took a minute and a painful reload to shoot twice! Those were the guns available then and when that passed there was no law enforcement a phone call and 30 seconds away.

[Jack Bauer]

Feb 15, 2018 13:06:32 GMT -4 CrazyJoeDavola said:

Feb 15, 2018 12:45:46 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Totally outlawing guns will not solve the problem, that means that only criminals in gangs will have guns. It also ignores that there is a serious issue in mental health and how it is being dealt with. 

It actually would. It's an extreme option, but it would. No, it wouldn't stop ALL gun violence or all criminals, but it would have a massive effect on the safety of Americans. Criminals in gangs aren't holding off mugging someone out of fear they have a gun.

And Jack Bauer, as a whole you can somewhat blame all parties for not getting something significant done by now, but it is primarily 1 side really holding back. One party is heavily funded by the NRA, and one party will fight to the death to protect 2nd amendment. It's not even debatable. I'm sure you can point out some cases where Democrats pulled back on something (which I'm sure Republicans did too) that might have been a step towards gun control, but overall GOP members want nothing to do with restricting gun purchases.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I'm at a point with it where I need to blame both parties as they both use this stuff to further their own political agendas vs actually trying to better their society for it.

In response their people keep voting in the right wing wing nuts who support doing absolutely nothing so they're getting what they want in a way. The state of Florida voted for Trump and elected Marco Rubio. Will that change after this school shooting? Probably not.

But I feel the left isn't doing enough on the issue. They're all so scared to lose seats in the next election, or not have someone prop up some bill they need, that they parade out a President to offer tears, thoughts, prayers, and a bunch of other empty thoughts that do nothing to change anything.

Obama or Trump all by themselves can't do anything to weigh in on a massive issue that is a huge problem. The amount of school shootings down there is an epidemic and both sides of the government need to work on fixing it because their entire system is built off of needing that co-operation.

We go through the same endless repeatable cycle and those of us old enough to remember back that far have been seeing it since Columbine. We've seen so many political changes since then that I think both sides should share blame to a point.

[Jack Bauer]

Feb 15, 2018 12:45:46 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Totally outlawing guns will not solve the problem, that means that only criminals in gangs will have guns. It also ignores that there is a serious issue in mental health and how it is being dealt with. 

Then why are these events not happening in so many other countries that have mental health issues yet much tighter gun control?

The volume of what happens in the US with this stuff is just staggering.

[moosefan1994]

Feb 15, 2018 13:16:41 GMT -4 Captain Obvious said:

Feb 15, 2018 12:45:46 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Totally outlawing guns will not solve the problem, that means that only criminals in gangs will have guns. It also ignores that there is a serious issue in mental health and how it is being dealt with. 

I don't think anybody is outlawing guns completely. Gangs are not the ones killing kids in schools, it's not Muslim immigrants or "dreamers" either.

There are very basic things that can be done that would AT least cut these mass shootings in half...if not by 75%. Look at the numbers of mass shootings across the countries where every Tom Dick and harry can't just go buy a military rifle.

-ban assault weapons. Any automatic or semi automatic weapon or the mods that can be applied should be 100% illegal.

-every country has mental health issues, the problem is in the US, Trump REPEALED a law that allowed those with certain mental illness to be denied guns. They trumpet the second amendment even when common sense says it should not be applied. It's the equivalent of Canada repealing drunk driving laws because it takes away a drunk's right to drive.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

-there is no reason those on terror watch lists or no fly lists can go out and buy military assault weapons.

The GOP and NRA keep trumpeting the second amendment but when that came to pass it took a minute and a painful reload to shoot twice! Those were the guns available then and when that passed there was no law enforcement a phone call and 30 seconds away.

Yeah, you just have to watch out while you are jogging on a pathway from these people renting a truck! 

[Captain Obvious]

Feb 15, 2018 14:49:06 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Feb 15, 2018 13:16:41 GMT -4 Captain Obvious said:

I don't think anybody is outlawing guns completely. Gangs are not the ones killing kids in schools, it's not Muslim immigrants or "dreamers" either.

There are very basic things that can be done that would AT least cut these mass shootings in half...if not by 75%. Look at the numbers of mass shootings across the countries where every Tom Dick and harry can't just go buy a military rifle.

-ban assault weapons. Any automatic or semi automatic weapon or the mods that can be applied should be 100% illegal.

-every country has mental health issues, the problem is in the US, Trump REPEALED a law that allowed those with certain mental illness to be denied guns. They trumpet the second amendment even when common sense says it should not be applied. It's the equivalent of Canada repealing drunk driving laws because it takes away a drunk's right to drive.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

-there is no reason those on terror watch lists or no fly lists can go out and buy military assault weapons.

The GOP and NRA keep trumpeting the second amendment but when that came to pass it took a minute and a painful reload to shoot twice! Those were the guns available then and when that passed there was no law enforcement a phone call and 30 seconds away.

Yeah, you just have to watch out while you are jogging on a pathway from these people renting a truck! 

The GOP hypocrisy shines through you. They want to ban an entire religion because a Muslim killed 8 or 9 people with a truck, but don't ask them to ban bump stock to automate rifles or enforce background checks on criminals or those with mental illness to limit their ability to get guns though!!!!

[moosefan1994]

Feb 15, 2018 15:17:59 GMT -4 Captain Obvious said:

Feb 15, 2018 14:49:06 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Yeah, you just have to watch out while you are jogging on a pathway from these people renting a truck! 

The GOP hypocrisy shines through you. They want to ban an entire religion because a Muslim killed 8 or 9 people with a truck, but don't ask them to ban bump stock to automate rifles or enforce background checks on criminals or those with mental illness to limit their ability to get guns though!!!!

And your liberal snowflake hyperbole oozes through - the ban was on 6 countries, majority Muslim countries which were/are considered failed states, so it was impossible to verify people coming from there, and Iran which is the biggest state sponsor of worldwide terrorism. If there was a move to ban the Muslim religion then Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would have been on that list as well. 

[Captain Obvious]

Feb 15, 2018 15:37:50 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Feb 15, 2018 15:17:59 GMT -4 Captain Obvious said:

The GOP hypocrisy shines through you. They want to ban an entire religion because a Muslim killed 8 or 9 people with a truck, but don't ask them to ban bump stock to automate rifles or enforce background checks on criminals or those with mental illness to limit their ability to get guns though!!!!

And your liberal snowflake hyperbole oozes through - the ban was on 6 countries, majority Muslim countries which were/are considered failed states, so it was impossible to verify people coming from there, and Iran which is the biggest state sponsor of worldwide terrorism. If there was a move to ban the Muslim religion then Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would have been on that list as well. 

Do you know what snowflake means?

In popular culture, the definition of snowflake is Trump. He's like a 9 year old who can't handle anybody having a different opinion than him or criticizing him.

All that being said, non immigrants that should not have guns kill thousands every year and the GOP bends over backwards for THEIR rights. This stuff all smells of racism. Some of them actually want to deport DACA immigrants despite the fact that this would have a very negative impact on the economy, military and those people have lower crime rates than the average American.

[moosefan1994]

Feb 15, 2018 15:17:59 GMT -4 Captain Obvious said:

Feb 15, 2018 14:49:06 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Yeah, you just have to watch out while you are jogging on a pathway from these people renting a truck! 

The GOP hypocrisy shines through you. They want to ban an entire religion because a Muslim killed 8 or 9 people with a truck, but don't ask them to ban bump stock to automate rifles or enforce background checks on criminals or those with mental illness to limit their ability to get guns though!!!!

And your liberal hyperbole oozes through - the ban was on 6 countries, majority Muslim countries which were/are considered failed states, so it was impossible to verify people coming from there, and Iran which is the biggest state sponsor of worldwide terrorism. If there was a move to ban the Muslim religion then Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would have been on that list as well.

[moosefan1994]

Feb 15, 2018 15:50:42 GMT -4 Captain Obvious said:

Feb 15, 2018 15:37:50 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

And your liberal snowflake hyperbole oozes through - the ban was on 6 countries, majority Muslim countries which were/are considered failed states, so it was impossible to verify people coming from there, and Iran which is the biggest state sponsor of worldwide terrorism. If there was a move to ban the Muslim religion then Saudi Arabia and Pakistan would have been on that list as well. 

Do you know what snowflake means?

In popular culture, the definition of snowflake is Trump. He's like a 9 year old who can't handle anybody having a different opinion than him or criticizing him.

All that being said, non immigrants that should not have guns kill thousands every year and the GOP bends over backwards for THEIR rights. This stuff all smells of racism. Some of them actually want to deport DACA immigrants despite the fact that this would have a very negative impact on the economy, military and those people have lower crime rates than the average American.

In case you haven't noticed Trump actually wants to allow 1.8 million DACA immigrants to stay, 3 times more than what Obama allowed. The only DACA who should be kicked out of the U.S. are the ones who have committed serious crimes. IMO the DACA kids, when they are protesting, might want to carry the American flag and not the one from the country they aren't supposed to remember at all like Mexico, Guatemala, San Salvador, El Salvador, Honduras etc. 

IMO the endgame with respect to immigration should be strong border protection ( Republican win) , DACA kids stay and a path to citizenship for any illegals who haven't committed any other crimes (AMNESTY) (Democrat win) and a move to a MERIT based immigration system, immigration based on skills over reunification and diversity. 

[Captain Obvious]

Feb 15, 2018 17:11:41 GMT -4 moosefan1994 said:

Feb 15, 2018 15:50:42 GMT -4 Captain Obvious said:

Do you know what snowflake means?

In popular culture, the definition of snowflake is Trump. He's like a 9 year old who can't handle anybody having a different opinion than him or criticizing him.

All that being said, non immigrants that should not have guns kill thousands every year and the GOP bends over backwards for THEIR rights. This stuff all smells of racism. Some of them actually want to deport DACA immigrants despite the fact that this would have a very negative impact on the economy, military and those people have lower crime rates than the average American.

In case you haven't noticed Trump actually wants to allow 1.8 million DACA immigrants to stay, 3 times more than what Obama allowed. The only DACA who should be kicked out of the U.S. are the ones who have committed serious crimes. IMO the DACA kids, when they are protesting, might want to carry the American flag and not the one from the country they aren't supposed to remember at all like Mexico, Guatemala, San Salvador, El Salvador, Honduras etc. 

IMO the endgame with respect to immigration should be strong border protection ( Republican win) , DACA kids stay and a path to citizenship for any illegals who haven't committed any other crimes (AMNESTY) (Democrat win) and a move to a MERIT based immigration system, immigration based on skills over reunification and diversity. 

He is holding them hostage to get his waste of taxpayer dollars called the border wall. You know the one Mexico was supposed to pay for?

Trump would never get DACA done without a huge win for him elsewhere as it's not popular with his white supremacist base, you know the clowns with the red hats?

The funny part in all of this is he wants a merit based system yet his parents would have never made it in that way, plus he won't comment on the status of his wife's parents...who would also not get in based on his system...funny how that works...

[Captain Obvious]

Facts Do Matter‏ @wildonnelly · 19m19 minutes ago


 More


European countries have similar levels of mental illness to the US, however, they have much stricter gun control laws. Yearly murder rates per 100,000 inhabitants:
US - 4.88
France - 1.58
UK - 0.92
Germany - 0.85
Italy - 0.78
Spain - 0.66
Ireland - 0.65
Netherlands - 0.61

[MikeC]

I wrote this on a previous page in this thread, because, you know, there have been multiple mass shootings in the US since this thread was started.

It's simple math.
Where are you more likely to get shot?
In a crowd where 3/100 people have guns, or in a crowd where 30/100 people have guns?


Even if I don't believe them, I know there are plenty of arguments why it's not the access to guns that is the problem.
But seeing as how the access to guns is the biggest difference between the US and ALL the other western countries that have much better gun violence stats, isn't it time to at least try limiting the access to guns and/or certain types of guns?
What is there to lose at this point? Certainly nothing more valuable than children's lives.

[Captain Obvious]

Feb 15, 2018 19:11:14 GMT -4 MikeC said:

I wrote this on a previous page in this thread, because, you know, there have been multiple mass shootings in the US since this thread was started.

It's simple math.
Where are you more likely to get shot?
In a crowd where 3/100 people have guns, or in a crowd where 30/100 people have guns?


Even if I don't believe them, I know there are plenty of arguments why it's not the access to guns that is the problem.
But seeing as how the access to guns is the biggest difference between the US and ALL the other western countries that have much better gun violence stats, isn't it time to at least try limiting the access to guns and/or certain types of guns?
What is there to lose at this point? Certainly nothing more valuable than children's lives.

Somebody wrote a really sweet response to a smartass on Twitter and it was brilliant.

One right wing extremist tweeted that we should ban cars since people die from them.

A reply was that since cars were invented there have been major changes to what manufacturers can put on the road and what drivers lose their right to drive.

-seatbelts were made mandatory
-not allowed to drive drunk
-those with medical conditions lose their license

(there were others noted but, those are the ones I can recall)

No reason that the US can't take the same approach with guns...there are ways to limit the amount and level of threat of guns that are on the street and to take away the rights of those that cause a high risk of harming others...most countries have done at least this or more...

[MikeC]

Not sure if this link will work.
www.facebook.com/Vox/videos/841874856000118/