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Post by moosefan1994 on Nov 1, 2016 10:00:35 GMT -4
I'm not sure who owns our 2'nd, but one possible trade I would try to make early is to trade our 2017 first over all pick for our own 2'nd plus the current owner's 2'nd. That would give us a 19th over all and three picks in the top three rounds. I wouldn't be interested in anything else like our 2nd and their 3rd for example. Only the trade I mentioned. I would pose the trade as soon as possible with a long time to accept. That 1'st is going to be worth a lot. Maybe even someone else's 1st and 2nd depending on their holes to fill. Any GM would be crazy to deal a high first in 2017. There are like 5-6 franchise players in this draft. It would have to be some major offer. There are still the 4 Quebec kids who played at 14 last year in midget. Simoneau seems to have taken a bit of a dive without Benoit-Olivier Groulx and the fact he is still listed at 5'5". There is a new front runner ahead of Xavier Parent by the name of Alexis Lafreniere who is tearing the league up; he has size and with a late birthday is 2020 eligible so whoever gets him has him for 3 years guaranteed. Here is a link, I will wait to put it in a thread on the Moose board as the self-appointed moderator over will be upset that anybody would mention the 2017 Q draft in November 2016 on a board for a team which plays in the Q. hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=2144045 |
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Post by Arnold Slick on Nov 1, 2016 10:05:05 GMT -4
Its great to have the first over all and get a franchise type player, but that's the problem, he's only one player. We will be basement for a couple of years at least and I would start this year with 3 or 4 second rounds that we hope either end up playing like first rounds or are team captain character types to break the way for 2018 draft when we do draft the franchise guy. The first overall would be literally surrounded by no one. That`s why they need to add 3-4 more blue chip assets at midseason, trade 3-4 of the best veterans on the team. They also need to hit on the Euro draft in June. instead of always trading back, they should stockpile picks and try and trade up , two 5ths for another 3rd rounder... If they can make a few trades, pick in at least the top 5 of the Q draft and hit a home run with a high Euro selection (someone like a Barbashev, Ehlers, Hischier, etc.) then things all of a sudden look a whole lot better. Then maybe they catch a break with a Logan Cash or someone along those lines showing up. Some big ifs though and stuff like the Donaghey trade does not inspire much confidence in me. Realistically if they can't figure out the rebuild starting with this next trade period and into the 2017 draft then I don't have much hope of seeing a legit title contender in this city anytime soon. Not saying we'll be seeing terrible teams every year or anything like that, but it would be nice to have a big season where the expectations are to win a championship like in 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2010. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 1, 2016 12:06:18 GMT -4
That`s why they need to add 3-4 more blue chip assets at midseason, trade 3-4 of the best veterans on the team. They also need to hit on the Euro draft in June. instead of always trading back, they should stockpile picks and try and trade up , two 5ths for another 3rd rounder... If they can make a few trades, pick in at least the top 5 of the Q draft and hit a home run with a high Euro selection (someone like a Barbashev, Ehlers, Hischier, etc.) then things all of a sudden look a whole lot better. Then maybe they catch a break with a Logan Cash or someone along those lines showing up. Some big ifs though and stuff like the Donaghey trade does not inspire much confidence in me. Realistically if they can't figure out the rebuild starting with this next trade period and into the 2017 draft then I don't have much hope of seeing a legit title contender in this city anytime soon. Not saying we'll be seeing terrible teams every year or anything like that, but it would be nice to have a big season where the expectations are to win a championship like in 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2010. I agree, I'm a fan of "going for it" every few seasons rather than just patching holes and trying to get to round 2. Like you said, asset management has been a big issue with this management group(blame whoever you want), the facts don't lie over the last 5-6 years. If they keep that up, they won't contend in the forseeable future, no matter how many FA's they hit on. FA's are a nice complement to good drafts and trades, not a replacement. |
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Post by Citris on Nov 1, 2016 13:35:25 GMT -4
The last few years it seems the Wildcats have been relying less on US picks, but as you guys have mentioned, it's the dealing of picks that has been suspect.
The picks they have made haven't been terrible, but, that 8th overall pick could have been converted much better. Capanelli is a good pickup, but it meant missing out on Anderson MacDonald who was playing right under their noses in the NB/PEIMMHL, and then also Jettisoning the 15th overall for basically nothing.
Hindsight is 20/20, but, Colten Ellis would have been a nice grab with the 3rd round pick, Massie probably could have fell another round or 2.
As an aside, the NB/PEI midget league had an off year for prospects last year, I wonder if it's a coincidence that Saint John, Moncton and Charlottetown all had pretty dreadful drafts.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 1, 2016 14:22:05 GMT -4
The last few years it seems the Wildcats have been relying less on US picks, but as you guys have mentioned, it's the dealing of picks that has been suspect. The picks they have made haven't been terrible, but, that 8th overall pick could have been converted much better. Capanelli is a good pickup, but it meant missing out on Anderson MacDonald who was playing right under their noses in the NB/PEIMMHL, and then also Jettisoning the 15th overall for basically nothing. Hindsight is 20/20, but, Colten Ellis would have been a nice grab with the 3rd round pick, Massie probably could have fell another round or 2. As an aside, the NB/PEI midget league had an off year for prospects last year, I wonder if it's a coincidence that Saint John, Moncton and Charlottetown all had pretty dreadful drafts. It's not just US picks, it's taking NCAA kids like Crossman, O'Leary, Cash and co on top of the US players that never show. 2016-5 US players-zero show up 2015-3 US players-one shows up 2014-7 US players-one shows up 2013-8 US players-3 show up That's 5 US players coming in on 23 players picked, percentage is not high. We can add to that the "NCAA" players that are not from the US that did not show up...Micheal O'Leary, Jack Grant, Adam Dawe, Logan Cash, Clark Webster etc |
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Post by Citris on Nov 1, 2016 15:36:05 GMT -4
[ It's not just US picks, it's taking NCAA kids like Crossman, O'Leary, Cash and co on top of the US players that never show. 2016-5 US players-zero show up 2015-3 US players-one shows up 2014-7 US players-one shows up 2013-8 US players-3 show up That's 5 US players coming in on 23 players picked, percentage is not high. We can add to that the "NCAA" players that are not from the US that did not show up...Micheal O'Leary, Jack Grant, Adam Dawe, Logan Cash, Clark Webster etc Good point, TJ Walsh is in there as well. It's all well and good finding gems south of the boarder now and then, but yea, that's a terrible conversion rate and a lot of wasted picks. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 1, 2016 15:50:04 GMT -4
[ It's not just US picks, it's taking NCAA kids like Crossman, O'Leary, Cash and co on top of the US players that never show. 2016-5 US players-zero show up 2015-3 US players-one shows up 2014-7 US players-one shows up 2013-8 US players-3 show up That's 5 US players coming in on 23 players picked, percentage is not high. We can add to that the "NCAA" players that are not from the US that did not show up...Micheal O'Leary, Jack Grant, Adam Dawe, Logan Cash, Clark Webster etc Good point, TJ Walsh is in there as well. It's all well and good finding gems south of the boarder now and then, but yea, that's a terrible conversion rate and a lot of wasted picks. TJ Walsh is part of the US players. |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 1, 2016 16:49:11 GMT -4
The last few years it seems the Wildcats have been relying less on US picks, but as you guys have mentioned, it's the dealing of picks that has been suspect. The picks they have made haven't been terrible, but, that 8th overall pick could have been converted much better. Capanelli is a good pickup, but it meant missing out on Anderson MacDonald who was playing right under their noses in the NB/PEIMMHL, and then also Jettisoning the 15th overall for basically nothing. Hindsight is 20/20, but, Colten Ellis would have been a nice grab with the 3rd round pick, Massie probably could have fell another round or 2. As an aside, the NB/PEI midget league had an off year for prospects last year, I wonder if it's a coincidence that Saint John, Moncton and Charlottetown all had pretty dreadful drafts. It's not just US picks, it's taking NCAA kids like Crossman, O'Leary, Cash and co on top of the US players that never show. 2016-5 US players-zero show up 2015-3 US players-one shows up 2014-7 US players-one shows up 2013-8 US players-3 show up That's 5 US players coming in on 23 players picked, percentage is not high. We can add to that the "NCAA" players that are not from the US that did not show up...Micheal O'Leary, Jack Grant, Adam Dawe, Logan Cash, Clark Webster etc I agree ... but what picks were wasted on them. Quite a few of our longshot US picks are 10th to 14th Rd. Post the rounds and your argument would be more effective. I know there are some bad ones in there ... but not all of them. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 1, 2016 17:06:05 GMT -4
It's not just US picks, it's taking NCAA kids like Crossman, O'Leary, Cash and co on top of the US players that never show. 2016-5 US players-zero show up 2015-3 US players-one shows up 2014-7 US players-one shows up 2013-8 US players-3 show up That's 5 US players coming in on 23 players picked, percentage is not high. We can add to that the "NCAA" players that are not from the US that did not show up...Micheal O'Leary, Jack Grant, Adam Dawe, Logan Cash, Clark Webster etc I agree ... but what picks were wasted on them. Quite a few of our longshot US picks are 10th to 14th Rd. Post the rounds and your argument would be more effective. I know there are some bad ones in there ... but not all of them. 2016 Cash(5) Walash(5) Webster(6) Keegan(6) 2015 O'Leary(3) Grant(6) Dawe(7) Destefani(9) 2014 McInnis(4) Murphy(6) Krys(7) Koopman(8) That's 4 per year that were not "late round gambles" and did not show up/dress for camp. If they had boatloads of picks, including all the early ones it wouldn't look so bad, but when you have no 1st or 2nd rounder, you can't whiff on a lot of 3rd 4th and 5th rounders. |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 1, 2016 17:21:45 GMT -4
I agree ... but what picks were wasted on them. Quite a few of our longshot US picks are 10th to 14th Rd. Post the rounds and your argument would be more effective. I know there are some bad ones in there ... but not all of them. 2016 Cash(5) Walash(5) Webster(6) Keegan(6) 2015 O'Leary(3) Grant(6) Dawe(7) Destefani(9) 2014 McInnis(4) Murphy(6) Krys(7) Koopman(8) That's 4 per year that were not "late round gambles" and did not show up/dress for camp. If they had boatloads of picks, including all the early ones it wouldn't look so bad, but when you have no 1st or 2nd rounder, you can't whiff on a lot of 3rd 4th and 5th rounders. I agree ... looks bad. So did you leave out the later picks that didn't show up ? |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 1, 2016 17:51:48 GMT -4
2016 Cash(5) Walash(5) Webster(6) Keegan(6) 2015 O'Leary(3) Grant(6) Dawe(7) Destefani(9) 2014 McInnis(4) Murphy(6) Krys(7) Koopman(8) That's 4 per year that were not "late round gambles" and did not show up/dress for camp. If they had boatloads of picks, including all the early ones it wouldn't look so bad, but when you have no 1st or 2nd rounder, you can't whiff on a lot of 3rd 4th and 5th rounders. I agree ... looks bad. So did you leave out the later picks that didn't show up ? Yes, those would be gambles either way. Top 8-9 rounds, teams usually can get solid players who will report. It's still a gamble, but not as much. Waite Olivier Cormier and Simpson for example rounds 6-9th. |
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ronmac
Blue-Chip Prospect
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Post by ronmac on Nov 1, 2016 18:52:15 GMT -4
I'm not sure who owns our 2'nd, but one possible trade I would try to make early is to trade our 2017 first over all pick for our own 2'nd plus the current owner's 2'nd. That would give us a 19th over all and three picks in the top three rounds. I wouldn't be interested in anything else like our 2nd and their 3rd for example. Only the trade I mentioned. I would pose the trade as soon as possible with a long time to accept. That 1'st is going to be worth a lot. Maybe even someone else's 1st and 2nd depending on their holes to fill.
I hope you were kidding about trading our 1st round for a second 2nd and maybe a 3rd, trading down is what is a major cause of the problems we are currently seeing, we need some talent to go along with all the 3rd and 4th round talent we have now.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 1, 2016 18:57:12 GMT -4
I'm not sure who owns our 2'nd, but one possible trade I would try to make early is to trade our 2017 first over all pick for our own 2'nd plus the current owner's 2'nd. That would give us a 19th over all and three picks in the top three rounds. I wouldn't be interested in anything else like our 2nd and their 3rd for example. Only the trade I mentioned. I would pose the trade as soon as possible with a long time to accept. That 1'st is going to be worth a lot. Maybe even someone else's 1st and 2nd depending on their holes to fill. I hope you were kidding about trading our 1st round for a second 2nd and maybe a 3rd, trading down is what is a major cause of the problems we are currently seeing, we need some talent to go along with all the 3rd and 4th round talent we have now. that doesn't sound like good value, especially if they finish bottom 5. |
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Post by krisran on Nov 1, 2016 19:03:02 GMT -4
If we end up with a top 5 pick and it looks like we will, If Shannon trades that pick he should be fired on the spot...they need to be bold like Halifax has been by trading up not down.. just my opinion.
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Post by buckybuckbuck on Nov 1, 2016 19:59:22 GMT -4
I'm not sure who owns our 2'nd, but one possible trade I would try to make early is to trade our 2017 first over all pick for our own 2'nd plus the current owner's 2'nd. That would give us a 19th over all and three picks in the top three rounds. I wouldn't be interested in anything else like our 2nd and their 3rd for example. Only the trade I mentioned. I would pose the trade as soon as possible with a long time to accept. That 1'st is going to be worth a lot. Maybe even someone else's 1st and 2nd depending on their holes to fill. I hope you were kidding about trading our 1st round for a second 2nd and maybe a 3rd, trading down is what is a major cause of the problems we are currently seeing, we need some talent to go along with all the 3rd and 4th round talent we have now. If you read it correctly, that is exactly what I didn't want. |
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