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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 8, 2017 16:25:54 GMT -4
I don't see Dunda being moved unless his value is higher than I think. Welsh is the only impact worth trading, should be worth a 1st and a good young player or good player as futures. The 19 year olds will be very attractive. Carl Neill brought two 2nds last year. So I don't see how Welsh alone could be worth a 1st plus a good player....specially that he is 20. Maybe we should sell Holwell for that price....to you. Neill cost 2 2nds plus a 3rd and an 8th. Last year there were a lot of OA on the market, Rimouski dangled Boland and Montcalm but ultimately could not get their price. The year before Brouillard cost Sills, Cote and a 2nd. Cote was a #8 overall pick at the time. OA's and Euros are more supply demand driven than 19 year olds simply because you can only have 3 of one and 2 of the other. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 8, 2017 16:31:17 GMT -4
What team would have interest in Welsh and I wonder what he brings in return ? To me he is our only TRUE asset ...and Yes you just asked the million dollar question! Im not saying others won't get moved or don't have value, its just that our 20 yr olds are the only ones that are assured not to be back...especially Welsh obviously If you put Grametbauer, Welsh, Tessier on the market I think all 3 can bring you back 2 very good assets, all things being equal. with goalies and OA's the market can be quirky both ways depending on supply and demand for those spots... If you want to contend next year, then you probably add future OA's coming back in those deals plus a top pick or very good young asset....or you only move welsh plus "filler" 19 year olds. In terms of OA's next year... Tessier and Grametbauer should be top guys, top 10-12 overall Pataki, MacRae and Weiringa would be low end fillers. |
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Post by catnut on Nov 8, 2017 16:45:18 GMT -4
To me he is our only TRUE asset ...and Yes you just asked the million dollar question! Im not saying others won't get moved or don't have value, its just that our 20 yr olds are the only ones that are assured not to be back...especially Welsh obviously If you put Grametbauer, Welsh, Tessier on the market I think all 3 can bring you back 2 very good assets, all things being equal. with goalies and OA's the market can be quirky both ways depending on supply and demand for those spots... If you want to contend next year, then you probably add future OA's coming back in those deals plus a top pick or very good young asset....or you only move welsh plus "filler" 19 year olds. In terms of OA's next year... Tessier and Grametbauer should be top guys, top 10-12 overall Pataki, MacRae and Weiringa would be low end fillers. If you trade Tessier and Grametbauer, that means you are not going in next year. The year after that, you have 12 players on the current roster who will be 20 so you can't go again. When? |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 8, 2017 16:52:46 GMT -4
If you put Grametbauer, Welsh, Tessier on the market I think all 3 can bring you back 2 very good assets, all things being equal. with goalies and OA's the market can be quirky both ways depending on supply and demand for those spots... If you want to contend next year, then you probably add future OA's coming back in those deals plus a top pick or very good young asset....or you only move welsh plus "filler" 19 year olds. In terms of OA's next year... Tessier and Grametbauer should be top guys, top 10-12 overall Pataki, MacRae and Weiringa would be low end fillers. If you trade Tessier and Grametbauer, that means you are not going in next year. The year after that, you have 12 players on the current roster who will be 20 so you can't go again. When? They are not all top guys. You can build around Cyr and McKenna plus one of Blackmore Seitz or Aspirot. The rest may not be QO quality guys by then. Lecoultre is a Euro. Waite the jury is very much out. Kuzmin, Rumble doesn't appear to be a fan of his. It all depends on what their goals are... If you want to just be top 5-6 and possibly win a round or two...next year it is, heck they could even try that this year. If you really want to win a championship, you need 3-4 more high end young players added. at least one top flight Euro and at least 2 top young D. |
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Post by catnut on Nov 8, 2017 17:02:02 GMT -4
If you trade Tessier and Grametbauer, that means you are not going in next year. The year after that, you have 12 players on the current roster who will be 20 so you can't go again. When? They are not all top guys. You can build around Cyr and McKenna plus one of Blackmore Seitz or Aspirot. The rest may not be QO quality guys by then. Lecoultre is a Euro. Waite the jury is very much out. Kuzmin, Rumble doesn't appear to be a fan of his. It all depends on what their goals are... If you want to just be top 5-6 and possibly win a round or two...next year it is, heck they could even try that this year. If you really want to win a championship, you need 3-4 more high end young players added. at least one top flight Euro and at least 2 top young D. When Cyr, McKenna, Capannelli, Seitz are 20, there's only 3 players on the current roster who will be 19 on that team (Hudson, Tucker and MacDonald) plus 2 18 YO's. IMO the chances are much better next year than in 2 years, especially if you add a strong Euro (plus possibly Khovanov). The bad (atrocious) drafts in 2016 and 2014 limit the possibilities. |
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 9, 2017 13:44:33 GMT -4
I’m surprised about this thread. It’s whole premise is who is going to be traded or not. Now yes I’m someone on the out side looking in but with the year you guys are having and missing the playoffs last year, why are you trading away key vets? This team has a chance to make it at lest to the 2nd round and compete all the way through with guys like Welsh, Gramebauer and Tessier being in the core. Yeah they might have value on the market but the experience of winning is a hard thing to measure but a needed thing.
I truly don’t think you guy do much unless it’s something like Halifax had happen last year. Halifax wasn’t shopping Ford but RN offered a 1st for him and Cam couldn’t say no to it. So you guys sitting put until something presents it’s shouldn’t surprise anyone.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 9, 2017 13:56:10 GMT -4
I’m surprised about this thread. It’s whole premise is who is going to be traded or not. Now yes I’m someone on the out side looking in but with the year you guys are having and missing the playoffs last year, why are you trading away key vets? This team has a chance to make it at lest to the 2nd round and compete all the way through with guys like Welsh, Gramebauer and Tessier being in the core. Yeah they might have value on the market but the experience of winning is a hard thing to measure but a needed thing. I truly don’t think you guy do much unless it’s something like Halifax had happen last year. Halifax wasn’t shopping Ford but RN offered a 1st for him and Cam couldn’t say no to it. So you guys sitting put until something presents it’s shouldn’t surprise anyone. I don't see the Cats having a fire sale like last year, but if you can hit home runs with guys like Welsh(leads Q in assists), Tessier(very good 2 way center) and Grametbauer(19yrs old, one of the best in the Q so far). Why not keep building towards a powerhouse? If you stand pat, you probably fall in the same pattern as 14-15 and 15-16, good team but not a real contender for the Q or Memorial Cup. Ultimately this will likely be decided by ownership. I think short and long term, defense is the issue. after Welsh, who is 20, the defense gets thin in a hurry, most guys are #4-5-6 guys on a top contender. If the goal is to contend next year, 2 stud d-men will have to be added. If it's 2-3 years down the road, they need to add 2-3 high upside 2000 and 2001 D-men. Guys that can be core players in 2 years: Cyr, McKenna, Seitz? Waite?(1999) MacDonald Tucker(2000) Pelletier Bellamy(20010 Khovanov(2000) is a question mark? |
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 9, 2017 14:12:57 GMT -4
I’m surprised about this thread. It’s whole premise is who is going to be traded or not. Now yes I’m someone on the out side looking in but with the year you guys are having and missing the playoffs last year, why are you trading away key vets? This team has a chance to make it at lest to the 2nd round and compete all the way through with guys like Welsh, Gramebauer and Tessier being in the core. Yeah they might have value on the market but the experience of winning is a hard thing to measure but a needed thing. I truly don’t think you guy do much unless it’s something like Halifax had happen last year. Halifax wasn’t shopping Ford but RN offered a 1st for him and Cam couldn’t say no to it. So you guys sitting put until something presents it’s shouldn’t surprise anyone. I don't see the Cats having a fire sale like last year, but if you can hit home runs with guys like Welsh(leads Q in assists), Tessier(very good 2 way center) and Grametbauer(19yrs old, one of the best in the Q so far). Why not keep building towards a powerhouse? If you stand pat, you probably fall in the same pattern as 14-15 and 15-16, good team but not a real contender for the Q or Memorial Cup. Ultimately this will likely be decided by ownership. I think short and long term, defense is the issue. after Welsh, who is 20, the defense gets thin in a hurry, most guys are #4-5-6 guys on a top contender. If the goal is to contend next year, 2 stud d-men will have to be added. If it's 2-3 years down the road, they need to add 2-3 high upside 2000 and 2001 D-men. Guys that can be core players in 2 years: Cyr, McKenna, Seitz? Waite?(1999) MacDonald Tucker(2000) Pelletier Bellamy(20010 Khovanov(2000) is a question mark? See I don’t agree with that because I think they already learned from those mistakes and have built a better foundation than back then. Now if you guys trade Gramebouer who’s your goalie for the next 15 months? Because who left aren’t good. The other guys you named are maybes but I just don’t see Grambouer going anywhere. Especially when next year is a Q Mem Cup year. He can put you guys in a position to maybe compete and maybe this time next year look to add and go for it. As for the D core maybe you can add one guy this year or add one at the draft. |
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Nov 9, 2017 15:13:19 GMT -4
I'd stand pat unless someone wants to overpay for Welsh or Tessier. Or like i proposed earlier , have a key 20 coming back at the draft like Corbeil.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 9, 2017 15:16:12 GMT -4
I don't see the Cats having a fire sale like last year, but if you can hit home runs with guys like Welsh(leads Q in assists), Tessier(very good 2 way center) and Grametbauer(19yrs old, one of the best in the Q so far). Why not keep building towards a powerhouse? If you stand pat, you probably fall in the same pattern as 14-15 and 15-16, good team but not a real contender for the Q or Memorial Cup. Ultimately this will likely be decided by ownership. I think short and long term, defense is the issue. after Welsh, who is 20, the defense gets thin in a hurry, most guys are #4-5-6 guys on a top contender. If the goal is to contend next year, 2 stud d-men will have to be added. If it's 2-3 years down the road, they need to add 2-3 high upside 2000 and 2001 D-men. Guys that can be core players in 2 years: Cyr, McKenna, Seitz? Waite?(1999) MacDonald Tucker(2000) Pelletier Bellamy(20010 Khovanov(2000) is a question mark? See I don’t agree with that because I think they already learned from those mistakes and have built a better foundation than back then. Now if you guys trade Gramebouer who’s your goalie for the next 15 months? Because who left aren’t good. The other guys you named are maybes but I just don’t see Grambouer going anywhere. Especially when next year is a Q Mem Cup year. He can put you guys in a position to maybe compete and maybe this time next year look to add and go for it. As for the D core maybe you can add one guy this year or add one at the draft. I don't think the foundation this year is any better than 14-15 and 15-16. They do not have a powerhouse team or a powerhouse core. The draft in 2017 was pretty good, but the 2014 and 2016 ones were flops, so the rebuild needs to continue if they don't want a half assed run. |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 9, 2017 15:31:46 GMT -4
I’m surprised about this thread. It’s whole premise is who is going to be traded or not. Now yes I’m someone on the out side looking in but with the year you guys are having and missing the playoffs last year, why are you trading away key vets? This team has a chance to make it at lest to the 2nd round and compete all the way through with guys like Welsh, Gramebauer and Tessier being in the core. Yeah they might have value on the market but the experience of winning is a hard thing to measure but a needed thing. I truly don’t think you guy do much unless it’s something like Halifax had happen last year. Halifax wasn’t shopping Ford but RN offered a 1st for him and Cam couldn’t say no to it. So you guys sitting put until something presents it’s shouldn’t surprise anyone. You are over-rating Moncton ... being fooled by our place in the standings. We got off to a quick start because we have a few guys that are breaking out with scoring ... and we have better goaltending than in the past. This team has been sliding in its last 10+ games. We have always played more games than everybody else this year so far and that's how we stay up in the standings. We are one point out of first and 6 pts out of 12th ... a bad weekend can have us drop like a stone. This is a mid-pack team at best. If we did make it out of round one, it would likely be an upset against a better team. Any trades that we make this year should have a positive affect on next year and the year after. Any trades to get better this year are a waste of assets. If Miromanov and Khovanov were to suddenly show up ... then maybe we are that team you think we are. But right now we are not. |
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 9, 2017 15:37:52 GMT -4
I'd stand pat unless someone wants to overpay for Welsh or Tessier. Or like i proposed earlier , have a key 20 coming back at the draft like Corbeil. Which is basically what i said. It’s exactly what Halifax did last year. Someone made an offer Cam had to jump on and if someone calls and offers a 1st for Welsh Shannon should take it. But I don’t think he should actively shop him. In Halifax’s case it was a reaction trade because the team missed on a player they needed to do something and well we got another 1st from it. That’s probably what Moncton will do let other team panic and over pay. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 9, 2017 15:42:30 GMT -4
I'd stand pat unless someone wants to overpay for Welsh or Tessier. Or like i proposed earlier , have a key 20 coming back at the draft like Corbeil. Which is basically what i said. It’s exactly what Halifax did last year. Someone made an offer Cam had to jump on and if someone calls and offers a 1st for Welsh Shannon should take it. But I don’t think he should actively shop him. In Halifax’s case it was a reaction trade because the team missed on a player they needed to do something and well we got another 1st from it. That’s probably what Moncton will do let other team panic and over pay. I'd be shocked if they could not get at least a 1st for Welsh. He's been a force so far this year. he must be one of the top 5-6 OA's at this point. |
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 9, 2017 15:45:30 GMT -4
I’m surprised about this thread. It’s whole premise is who is going to be traded or not. Now yes I’m someone on the out side looking in but with the year you guys are having and missing the playoffs last year, why are you trading away key vets? This team has a chance to make it at lest to the 2nd round and compete all the way through with guys like Welsh, Gramebauer and Tessier being in the core. Yeah they might have value on the market but the experience of winning is a hard thing to measure but a needed thing. I truly don’t think you guy do much unless it’s something like Halifax had happen last year. Halifax wasn’t shopping Ford but RN offered a 1st for him and Cam couldn’t say no to it. So you guys sitting put until something presents it’s shouldn’t surprise anyone. You are over-rating Moncton ... being fooled by our place in the standings. We got off to a quick start because we have a few guys that are breaking out with scoring ... and we have better goaltending than in the past. This team has been sliding in its last 10+ games. We have always played more games than everybody else this year so far and that's how we stay up in the standings. We are one point out of first and 6 pts out of 12th ... a bad weekend can have us drop like a stone. This is a mid-pack team at best. If we did make it out of round one, it would likely be an upset against a better team. Any trades that we make this year should have a positive affect on next year and the year after. Any trades to get better this year are a waste of assets. If Miromanov and Khovanov were to suddenly show up ... then maybe we are that team you think we are. But right now we are not. You do know that the point fluctuation could be said for any team right. This is a very bad year as a whole for everyone. The path you guys are on at the worst is looking at home ice in the first round. So if you win that round it’s not going to be against a better team. I’m by no way saying go for it this year but get the experience from this year and ride guy like Gramebouer next year and this time then see where you stand. It is a Q Mem Cup year and 2 teams go to it right. |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 9, 2017 15:49:24 GMT -4
You are over-rating Moncton ... being fooled by our place in the standings. We got off to a quick start because we have a few guys that are breaking out with scoring ... and we have better goaltending than in the past. This team has been sliding in its last 10+ games. We have always played more games than everybody else this year so far and that's how we stay up in the standings. We are one point out of first and 6 pts out of 12th ... a bad weekend can have us drop like a stone. This is a mid-pack team at best. If we did make it out of round one, it would likely be an upset against a better team. Any trades that we make this year should have a positive affect on next year and the year after. Any trades to get better this year are a waste of assets. If Miromanov and Khovanov were to suddenly show up ... then maybe we are that team you think we are. But right now we are not. You do know that the point fluctuation could be said for any team right. This is a very bad year as a whole for everyone. The path you guys are on at the worst is looking at home ice in the first round. So if you win that round it’s not going to be against a better team. I’m by no way saying go for it this year but get the experience from this year and ride guy like Gramebouer next year and this time then see where you stand. It is a Q Mem Cup year and 2 teams go to it right. No ... Halifax has improved ... Bathurst has improved ... CB is about the same ... Charlottetown has improved. We were winning those games in the early going and got out ahead of the pack ... but now our division has tightened up and those wins won't be so plentiful. You'll see ... we'll slip to 4th in the division by the trading period. Thats where this team belongs. |
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