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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 26, 2018 11:36:02 GMT -4
There’s no chance in hell that even makes sense. Way way way more value going to Moncton as futures then Halifax receives. It would improve Halifax, not sold on Sylvestre being an upgrade on Maher though... Aspirot is better than Kyte but still 3rd on their LHS depth chart. So Halifax would marginally upgrade, while giving up 3 guys that if they dealt would bring back a multitude of 1st round picks and basically help them quickly turn around. You deal Groulx/Barron/McIsaac on their own next year and they’re going to bring back close to the equivalent of 6 1st round picks. Groulx next year brings back a 1st+a top prospect/other picks Barron brings back multiple 1st+other things McIsaac brings back a 1st+a top prospect/other picks The concept could work in theory but it most definitely would not be at that type of a discount. I'm not saying that I agree with the pieces ... but in that deal Moncton should get a discount because Halifax gets 3 players immediately, and Moncton only gets one. There has to be a fee paid for using "our" three players (Groulx, MacIsaac, Barron) until the end of the season. Moncton would get a discount, but you’re not going to give up a 1st line C next season and 2 1st pairing D next season for what was being proposed. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 26, 2018 22:47:24 GMT -4
I'm not saying that I agree with the pieces ... but in that deal Moncton should get a discount because Halifax gets 3 players immediately, and Moncton only gets one. There has to be a fee paid for using "our" three players (Groulx, MacIsaac, Barron) until the end of the season. Moncton would get a discount, but you’re not going to give up a 1st line C next season and 2 1st pairing D next season for what was being proposed. I think Halifax would get a better player Than Sylvestre, maybe Khovanov or Cyr. |
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Post by buckybuckbuck on Nov 27, 2018 8:27:11 GMT -4
Could Moncton make a big trade with Halifax to load them up for the Memorial Cup? I don't know the exact value for each category, but something in this vein would make sense for both teams. Someone with a better understanding of the Moose players could chime in with their input to qualify this scenario. Moose solidify their D for their run. Sylvestre & Aspirot are one of the best D-pairs in the league + they get a game breaker in Mackenna. Moncton gets a future run. I think adding Memorial Cup experience to Moncton's roster next year along with that lottery pick player and the progression of our young guys might be the best direction for this current team. MacKenna for McIsaac (future)Aspirot Maher (now)Sylvestre Groulx (future) Barron (future)I would say your deal is pretty solid and would give Halifax the Win, so its not far off. MacKenna is worth 2 firsts and a player, Aspirot 2 firsts at least, and Sylvestre is a first plus if its a hot market. MacKenna and Aspirot could return at least a first each if they return as 20s for Halifax. The only thing I would think would have to change is some return of future drafts, a 2nd and a 5th, if MacKenna or Aspirot don't return as 20s otherwise I think its a win-win and right in line with what Halifax is going to have to do. |
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Post by Penguins23® on Nov 27, 2018 9:12:00 GMT -4
Could Moncton make a big trade with Halifax to load them up for the Memorial Cup? I don't know the exact value for each category, but something in this vein would make sense for both teams. Someone with a better understanding of the Moose players could chime in with their input to qualify this scenario. Moose solidify their D for their run. Sylvestre & Aspirot are one of the best D-pairs in the league + they get a game breaker in Mackenna. Moncton gets a future run. I think adding Memorial Cup experience to Moncton's roster next year along with that lottery pick player and the progression of our young guys might be the best direction for this current team. MacKenna for McIsaac (future)Aspirot Maher (now)Sylvestre Groulx (future) Barron (future)I would say your deal is pretty solid and would give Halifax the Win, so its not far off. MacKenna is worth 2 firsts and a player, Aspirot 2 firsts at least, and Sylvestre is a first plus if its a hot market. MacKenna and Aspirot could return at least a first each if they return as 20s for Halifax. The only thing I would think would have to change is some return of future drafts, a 2nd and a 5th, if MacKenna or Aspirot don't return as 20s otherwise I think its a win-win and right in line with what Halifax is going to have to do. Sylvestre is a barely average 20 year old. He's a defensive defenseman that gets constantly exposed. No way he's worth a first on any market, regardless of its temperature. |
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Post by jimmy on Nov 27, 2018 9:30:30 GMT -4
I don't think we will do much more than tinker at Xmas ... unless there is a player who we can get now for next year at a reasonable cost.
We currently have five potential OAs for next season ... McKenna, Cyr, Aspirot, Capanelli, and Seitz. We could potentially look to make a move using one of them as a future at the draft to pay ... can't imagine Seitz would have a ton of value in a trade. I am thinking our OAs next year are likely McKenna, Cyr, and Aspirot, but Capanelli could have strong value as a PPG player who is also a solid defensive forward.
MacDonald could be trade bait, assuming his injury is not too serious, but his value would seem to be pretty low at the moment ... I could see him being a guy they look to move in a "hockey deal" to get a defenseman who can play next season (so likely a 17 or 18 year old).
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 27, 2018 9:30:59 GMT -4
I'm not saying that I agree with the pieces ... but in that deal Moncton should get a discount because Halifax gets 3 players immediately, and Moncton only gets one. There has to be a fee paid for using "our" three players (Groulx, MacIsaac, Barron) until the end of the season. Moncton would get a discount, but you’re not going to give up a 1st line C next season and 2 1st pairing D next season for what was being proposed. Unfortunately you don't have the picks available to be able to pay less, so you are stuck with futures. You get three of our key players this year ... we get three of your key players next year. You can keep Maher. When all you have is futures to pay with you are stuck over-paying. We can't cut Groulx, MacIsaac and Barron into small pieces and only send a percentage of them. |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 27, 2018 9:32:45 GMT -4
Moncton would get a discount, but you’re not going to give up a 1st line C next season and 2 1st pairing D next season for what was being proposed. I think Halifax would get a better player Than Sylvestre, maybe Khovanov or Cyr. Cyr ... sure ... but not 18 yr old Khovanov. |
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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 27, 2018 9:36:02 GMT -4
Moncton would get a discount, but you’re not going to give up a 1st line C next season and 2 1st pairing D next season for what was being proposed. Unfortunately you don't have the picks available to be able to pay less, so you are stuck with futures. You get three of our key players this year ... we get three of your key players next year. You can keep Maher. When all you have is futures to pay with you are stuck over-paying. We can't cut Groulx, MacIsaac and Barron into small pieces and only send a percentage of them. Here’s where the problem becomes with this offer. Aspirot and Sylvestre aren’t that good. Aspirot doesn’t upgrade on McIsaac or Chainey on the left side. Sylvestre is a marginal upgrade at best (if he even is one) on the 20’s they have, the only player they’d really want is McKenna and that with the other pieces doesn’t get you Groulx/Barron/McIsaac. Obviously Moncton fans will think it’s a great deal because it is for them but it’s not anywhere near a good one for Halifax. Keep living in a fantasy land where this makes sense for Halifax. |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 27, 2018 9:46:47 GMT -4
Unfortunately you don't have the picks available to be able to pay less, so you are stuck with futures. You get three of our key players this year ... we get three of your key players next year. You can keep Maher. When all you have is futures to pay with you are stuck over-paying. We can't cut Groulx, MacIsaac and Barron into small pieces and only send a percentage of them. Here’s where the problem becomes with this offer. Aspirot and Sylvestre aren’t that good. Aspirot doesn’t upgrade on McIsaac or Chainey on the left side. Sylvestre is a marginal upgrade at best (if he even is one) on the 20’s they have, the only player they’d really want is McKenna and that with the other pieces doesn’t get you Groulx/Barron/McIsaac. Obviously Moncton fans will think it’s a great deal because it is for them but it’s not anywhere near a good one for Halifax. Keep living in a fantasy land where this makes sense for Halifax. You aren't upgrading on Chainey and MacIsaac ... you are keeping them and adding some grit that can play top pair minutes if needed. Everybody loves to downgrade our defense, but they are part of what has us tied for first in the conference, in a year where we weren't supposed to be contending. While Halifax is the Memorial Cup host and supposed to be dominating the league ... but they aren't. Good luck trying to make a deal that helps you this year, without having any useful picks, without paying through the nose in futures. No deal is going to look fair when you get to use all of the named players for your run. There is a large fee to use all the players and then pay next year. Delayed payment costs big. |
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Post by jimmy on Nov 27, 2018 9:47:07 GMT -4
Unfortunately you don't have the picks available to be able to pay less, so you are stuck with futures. You get three of our key players this year ... we get three of your key players next year. You can keep Maher. When all you have is futures to pay with you are stuck over-paying. We can't cut Groulx, MacIsaac and Barron into small pieces and only send a percentage of them. Here’s where the problem becomes with this offer. Aspirot and Sylvestre aren’t that good. Aspirot doesn’t upgrade on McIsaac or Chainey on the left side. Sylvestre is a marginal upgrade at best (if he even is one) on the 20’s they have, the only player they’d really want is McKenna and that with the other pieces doesn’t get you Groulx/Barron/McIsaac. Obviously Moncton fans will think it’s a great deal because it is for them but it’s not anywhere near a good one for Halifax. Keep living in a fantasy land where this makes sense for Halifax. I am inclined to agree with you on Sylvestre and Aspirot ... though Aspirot is better than some give him credit for, I think he is a #4 d-man on a contender, and the price should reflect that. In any event, I don't think the deal proposed in this thread is realistic ... Cats are highly unlikely to move McKenna IMO - it would take someone making a ridiculous offer. |
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Post by jimmy on Nov 27, 2018 9:48:44 GMT -4
I think Halifax would get a better player Than Sylvestre, maybe Khovanov or Cyr. Cyr ... sure ... but not 18 yr old Khovanov. Cyr is a guy I would consider moving (now or at the draft) if you can get a big price ... good player, but looking at OAs for next year, I would be comfortable moving ahead with McKenna, Capannelli and Aspirot ... |
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 27, 2018 10:01:09 GMT -4
Cyr ... sure ... but not 18 yr old Khovanov. Cyr is a guy I would consider moving (now or at the draft) if you can get a big price ... good player, but looking at OAs for next year, I would be comfortable moving ahead with McKenna, Capannelli and Aspirot ... I think anything we do has to come at a big price if we are going to switch from contending to selling. We have to be blown away by the price. Thibeau has already said that we are not selling, but won't be making any sort of big splash either. |
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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 27, 2018 12:11:24 GMT -4
Here’s where the problem becomes with this offer. Aspirot and Sylvestre aren’t that good. Aspirot doesn’t upgrade on McIsaac or Chainey on the left side. Sylvestre is a marginal upgrade at best (if he even is one) on the 20’s they have, the only player they’d really want is McKenna and that with the other pieces doesn’t get you Groulx/Barron/McIsaac. Obviously Moncton fans will think it’s a great deal because it is for them but it’s not anywhere near a good one for Halifax. Keep living in a fantasy land where this makes sense for Halifax. I am inclined to agree with you on Sylvestre and Aspirot ... though Aspirot is better than some give him credit for, I think he is a #4 d-man on a contender, and the price should reflect that. In any event, I don't think the deal proposed in this thread is realistic ... Cats are highly unlikely to move McKenna IMO - it would take someone making a ridiculous offer. That’s the thing, I like Aspirot but you aren’t going to pay a steep price for a 3rd pairing D on this team, when in the playoffs teams are basically rolling 3 lines and 4 D, sprinkling in the 3rd pair and 4th lines when necessary. If they needed an upgrade on the left side in the top 4 then he’s a fit. The deal in this thread isn’t realistic at all. |
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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 27, 2018 12:15:15 GMT -4
Here’s where the problem becomes with this offer. Aspirot and Sylvestre aren’t that good. Aspirot doesn’t upgrade on McIsaac or Chainey on the left side. Sylvestre is a marginal upgrade at best (if he even is one) on the 20’s they have, the only player they’d really want is McKenna and that with the other pieces doesn’t get you Groulx/Barron/McIsaac. Obviously Moncton fans will think it’s a great deal because it is for them but it’s not anywhere near a good one for Halifax. Keep living in a fantasy land where this makes sense for Halifax. You aren't upgrading on Chainey and MacIsaac ... you are keeping them and adding some grit that can play top pair minutes if needed. Everybody loves to downgrade our defense, but they are part of what has us tied for first in the conference, in a year where we weren't supposed to be contending. While Halifax is the Memorial Cup host and supposed to be dominating the league ... but they aren't. Good luck trying to make a deal that helps you this year, without having any useful picks, without paying through the nose in futures. No deal is going to look fair when you get to use all of the named players for your run. There is a large fee to use all the players and then pay next year. Delayed payment costs big. If you aren’t upgrading in Chainey/McIsaac then you don’t do that trade. He’d amount to a 3rd pairing D. You don’t pay that steep of a price for a 3rd pairing D, an OA that isn’t better than what you have and McKenna (who despite being elite, still isn’t worth that payment). Teams don’t roll more than 4 D. I’m not disagreeing that you pay more when you give up futures, I’m just disagreeing that the players Moncton would be giving up in this scenario would garner the proposed return. |
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Post by buckybuckbuck on Nov 27, 2018 12:49:44 GMT -4
You aren't upgrading on Chainey and MacIsaac ... you are keeping them and adding some grit that can play top pair minutes if needed. Everybody loves to downgrade our defense, but they are part of what has us tied for first in the conference, in a year where we weren't supposed to be contending. While Halifax is the Memorial Cup host and supposed to be dominating the league ... but they aren't. Good luck trying to make a deal that helps you this year, without having any useful picks, without paying through the nose in futures. No deal is going to look fair when you get to use all of the named players for your run. There is a large fee to use all the players and then pay next year. Delayed payment costs big. If you aren’t upgrading in Chainey/McIsaac then you don’t do that trade. He’d amount to a 3rd pairing D. You don’t pay that steep of a price for a 3rd pairing D, an OA that isn’t better than what you have and McKenna (who despite being elite, still isn’t worth that payment). Teams don’t roll more than 4 D. I’m not disagreeing that you pay more when you give up futures, I’m just disagreeing that the players Moncton would be giving up in this scenario would garner the proposed return. Here's the problem your assumption that you will not overpay. Halifax is definitely going to overpay. Everyone has you over a barrel. Part of the suck of hosting. |
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