Sea Dogs development camp

[SteveUL]

Jun 13, 2019 11:12:47 GMT -4 Jack Bauer said:

Jun 13, 2019 11:04:41 GMT -4 Briwhel said:

The worst part of all this is that the team got a little over 100k for naming rights on HS since they undoubtedly are what make the rights have value as part of their lease.

The worst part of all of this is the team trying to sell to government that they're a non-profitable entity.

Things like naming rights should just be taken care of in any lease agreement the 2 sides have.

And if they are a non-profitable entity it is because of the way they run their business. When you miss the playoffs two years in a row and spend the season at the bottom getting beat by just about everybody, because of the way you spent assets to win a championship and the way you rebuild from that ... fans start to lose interest.

When teams are looking for handouts ... especially big market teams ... that should be a consideration. Winning is great and is good for the community but there is usually a four year gap between contending years, and how you run the business (on and off the ice) in between the wins is what keeps people interested and paying the bills. When you routinely miss the playoffs once or twice every four years then your business model is failing you. There are 18 teams in the Q and some of them never miss the playoffs ... they can't afford to.

Its hard to fault SJ for missing the playoffs often when they have such great championship success as a franchise in their 13 years of existence. But that isn't good for business ... and that's what we are talking about here ... business.

[ldub23]

Jun 13, 2019 12:15:56 GMT -4 Judas In My Mind said:

Jun 13, 2019 10:51:17 GMT -4 Jack Bauer said:

So then you think McCain shouldn't have a team if he can't pay his own rent?

The sad thing is they are still paying rent. This really is just a discount in the yearly lease amount. I don't know why they are handling it this way because it now makes it look like McCain pays nothing and the city actually pays him to use their rink.

There must be a reason it is being handled this way, but it creates bad optics, or at least creates confusion.

The reality is that the Sea Dogs still pay money to use Harbour Station. They just pay less than they paid before.

That's the key, the Sea Dogs are still paying a significant amount to use Harbour Station.

I'm still waiting to see a chart from CHSB, or the others, showing the total arena rent paid by every Maritimes Division team. I'd expect to see the Sea Dogs third, behind Moncton and Halifax. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

In hindsight, if Saint John Common Council wanted to help the Sea Dogs - after learning that the Harbour Station Commission refused to lower their rates and/or help pay for upgrades made my the team - they should have just purchased a block of season tickets (50 ?) to be handed out every game to non-profit groups and schools. Could have been a win-win - instead of this so-called controversy fueled by the Telegraph Journal and Proboards.

[Jack Bauer]

Jun 13, 2019 12:15:56 GMT -4 Judas In My Mind said:

Jun 13, 2019 10:51:17 GMT -4 Jack Bauer said:

So then you think McCain shouldn't have a team if he can't pay his own rent?

The sad thing is they are still paying rent. This really is just a discount in the yearly lease amount. I don't know why they are handling it this way because it now makes it look like McCain pays nothing and the city actually pays him to use their rink.

There must be a reason it is being handled this way, but it creates bad optics, or at least creates confusion.

The reality is that the Sea Dogs still pay money to use Harbour Station. They just pay less than they paid before.

Agreed. The guy from Bathurst complaining about others rink lease deal is quite hilarious to me.

They're a region having issues keeping youth and like every other area of the Maritimes likely desperate for any new revenue source they can find to keep up with the demand on municipal governments but predictably chsb sees no issue with his own team paying absolutely nothing for their deal but sees huge issues with you getting a break on yours.

But he would never answer my direct question to him because it will expose how much of a hypocrite he is.

[Jack Bauer]

Jun 13, 2019 12:30:22 GMT -4 SteveUL said:

Jun 13, 2019 11:12:47 GMT -4 Jack Bauer said:

The worst part of all of this is the team trying to sell to government that they're a non-profitable entity.

Things like naming rights should just be taken care of in any lease agreement the 2 sides have.

And if they are a non-profitable entity it is because of the way they run their business. When you miss the playoffs two years in a row and spend the season at the bottom getting beat by just about everybody, because of the way you spent assets to win a championship and the way you rebuild from that ... fans start to lose interest.

When teams are looking for handouts ... especially big market teams ... that should be a consideration. Winning is great and is good for the community but there is usually a four year gap between contending years, and how you run the business (on and off the ice) in between the wins is what keeps people interested and paying the bills. When you routinely miss the playoffs once or twice every four years then your business model is failing you. There are 18 teams in the Q and some of them never miss the playoffs ... they can't afford to.

Its hard to fault SJ for missing the playoffs often when they have such great championship success as a franchise in their 13 years of existence. But that isn't good for business ... and that's what we are talking about here ... business.

If I can only win a championship by spending double my predicted revenue(hypothetical of course) on players and staff then I need to find a new business model.

I wouldn't expect a municipal government to have the knowledge, or time to gather enough of it, to be able to make an educated decision on something like that.

But if you're losing money and gave Huberdeau 5 figures...Jurco a lease on a sports car....Despres have monthly visits from his parents...and all these other added perks then you're not actually losing any money. You're spending beyond your means.

The fact they won so much and claim they've only had 1 profitable seasons tells you they're either straight out not telling the truth or really are throwing things at a wall to see what sticks due to the owner having unlimited funds.

Interesting though how the owner having the funds to draw the players doesn't relate to being able to pay for the house they play in. There's a lot wrong in that situation...and i'm sure if you dig deep enough...none of them are being up front and truthful about very much.

[Jack Bauer]

Jun 13, 2019 12:37:41 GMT -4 ldub23 said:

Jun 13, 2019 12:15:56 GMT -4 Judas In My Mind said:

The sad thing is they are still paying rent. This really is just a discount in the yearly lease amount. I don't know why they are handling it this way because it now makes it look like McCain pays nothing and the city actually pays him to use their rink.

There must be a reason it is being handled this way, but it creates bad optics, or at least creates confusion.

The reality is that the Sea Dogs still pay money to use Harbour Station. They just pay less than they paid before.

That's the key, the Sea Dogs are still paying a significant amount to use Harbour Station.

I'm still waiting to see a chart from CHSB, or the others, showing the total arena rent paid by every Maritimes Division team. I'd expect to see the Sea Dogs third, behind Moncton and Halifax. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

In hindsight, if Saint John Common Council wanted to help the Sea Dogs - after learning that the Harbour Station Commission refused to lower their rates and/or help pay for upgrades made my the team - they should have just purchased a block of season tickets (50 ?) to be handed out every game to non-profit groups and schools. Could have been a win-win - instead of this so-called controversy fueled by the Telegraph Journal and Proboards.

Good point. Could have been many ways to accomplish it without it appearing as a hand out to the team as the media took and ran with it as.

[scotian1]

Are any of the American players reporting to the Development Camp?

[killer]

Jun 13, 2019 13:49:03 GMT -4 scotian1 said:

Are any of the American players reporting to the Development Camp?

Cameron Miranda is on the list....

[Briwhel]

Jun 13, 2019 12:37:41 GMT -4 ldub23 said:

Jun 13, 2019 12:15:56 GMT -4 Judas In My Mind said:

The sad thing is they are still paying rent. This really is just a discount in the yearly lease amount. I don't know why they are handling it this way because it now makes it look like McCain pays nothing and the city actually pays him to use their rink.

There must be a reason it is being handled this way, but it creates bad optics, or at least creates confusion.

The reality is that the Sea Dogs still pay money to use Harbour Station. They just pay less than they paid before.

That's the key, the Sea Dogs are still paying a significant amount to use Harbour Station.

I'm still waiting to see a chart from CHSB, or the others, showing the total arena rent paid by every Maritimes Division team. I'd expect to see the Sea Dogs third, behind Moncton and Halifax. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

In hindsight, if Saint John Common Council wanted to help the Sea Dogs - after learning that the Harbour Station Commission refused to lower their rates and/or help pay for upgrades made my the team - they should have just purchased a block of season tickets (50 ?) to be handed out every game to non-profit groups and schools. Could have been a win-win - instead of this so-called controversy fueled by the Telegraph Journal and Proboards.

You are wrong. We are either 1 or 2

[Briwhel]

Jun 13, 2019 11:12:47 GMT -4 Jack Bauer said:

Jun 13, 2019 11:04:41 GMT -4 Briwhel said:

The worst part of all this is that the team got a little over 100k for naming rights on HS since they undoubtedly are what make the rights have value as part of their lease.

The worst part of all of this is the team trying to sell to government that they're a non-profitable entity.

Things like naming rights should just be taken care of in any lease agreement the 2 sides have.

It is part of the lease but the city owns HS and therefore had to sign off on the lease. Saint John didn't give anything, they just signed the damn lease after debating rejecting it.

[Jack Bauer]

Jun 13, 2019 15:41:07 GMT -4 Briwhel said:

Jun 13, 2019 11:12:47 GMT -4 Jack Bauer said:

The worst part of all of this is the team trying to sell to government that they're a non-profitable entity.

Things like naming rights should just be taken care of in any lease agreement the 2 sides have.

It is part of the lease but the city owns HS and therefore had to sign off on the lease. Saint John didn't give anything, they just signed the damn lease after debating rejecting it.

The team claims they're losing 6 figures plus per year. This $112K spread over 5 years doesn't even come close to that figure. So using the teams own logic...they're still heavily in the negative to at least $80K per season. How is that $20K a deal breaker to them if that's the case?

This is about more then just $20K per year and a lease extension. If the $20K was just coming from added revenue on its way it probably becomes a unanimous vote and isn't at all news to anyone.

But the figure came after threats and misinformation being handed to municipal politicians with a gun to their heads to sign it or else it would appear. And now as people learn more and rake the politicians over coals for it as other spending is neglected...it makes the next lease even more difficult as 1 side can clearly argue they can't trust a thing the other is saying.

[Jack Bauer]

Jun 13, 2019 15:39:16 GMT -4 Briwhel said:

Jun 13, 2019 12:37:41 GMT -4 ldub23 said:

That's the key, the Sea Dogs are still paying a significant amount to use Harbour Station.

I'm still waiting to see a chart from CHSB, or the others, showing the total arena rent paid by every Maritimes Division team. I'd expect to see the Sea Dogs third, behind Moncton and Halifax. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

In hindsight, if Saint John Common Council wanted to help the Sea Dogs - after learning that the Harbour Station Commission refused to lower their rates and/or help pay for upgrades made my the team - they should have just purchased a block of season tickets (50 ?) to be handed out every game to non-profit groups and schools. Could have been a win-win - instead of this so-called controversy fueled by the Telegraph Journal and Proboards.

You are wrong. We are either 1 or 2

What's the list then? If you're 1 or 2...give us the teams and figures.

[bigtimefan]

Jun 13, 2019 12:26:47 GMT -4 ldub23 said:

Since I'm apparently drunk on Sea Dogs special blue Koolaid, I need a little help understanding the logic of guys like Martin Lahaie and several Quebec reporters/bloggers and Proboards posters.

In 2009, the Sea Dogs draft Pierre Durepos and Jonathan Huberdeau - who stated that they were leaning towards a US education package. Both sign and are key contributors to 2 Presidents Cups and one Memorial Cup. Charlie Coyle leaves Boston to join the 2012 team and plays a huge role as well. Dirty Ba$tard$ those NCAA $ea Dog$.

2011 - draft Connor Brickley, Ryan Segala and Marc Beiga. None sign

2012 - Drew Michals and Wiley Sherman - nope

2013 - Jack Eichel (even after refusing Halifax) and Joey Daccord - Nada

2014 - Jack Massie, Monty Graham, Marshall Rafai and Lincoln Griffin - NO

2015 - Morgan Barron, Marc McLaughlin and Ben Miragaea - I don't think so, Bud

2016 - Shane Bowers (after saying no to Screaming Eagles), Simon Eisliger, Devan Newhook, Matt Gould, Matthew Steinberg and Derek Fournier. Say goodnight, Mr. Young

2017 - Lynden Breen (local player), Tim Noble, Luke Wilson, Justin Hryckowian, Patrick Moynihan and Robby Griffin. We have a winner - welcome to Saint John, young master Luke.

2018 - Josh Lawrence (Yes - after the draft), Charlie DesRoches (PEI boy, upset the Islanders didn't draft him, walks down to Sea Dogs table and signs a decommitment form - YES), Dawson Stairs (well, Josh is going, sounds like a good plan - YES), Kale McCallum (doubtful), Connor Bradford (nice city but New England is nicer), Jack Williams ("you guys are very good but it's hard to walk away from my favorite NCAA team"), Cade DeStafini (Isn't New Brunswick a city in New Jersey). Lahaie et al - "those dirty cheating ba$tard$ - paying hundreds of thousands to bring in these recalcitrant players. The QMJHL should launch a investigation".

2019 - VDO at 6 - Evan Nause, VIC at 7 - Guillaume Richard ($UMaine? But the Tigres are my hometown team - sure I'll put on the jersey and smile - what a good boy!"), SHE at 9 - Cam Whynot ("but he's not there? Still good risk for a top D"), RIM at 14 - Zachary Bolduc ("sure it'll cost $26,000 to get him to waive his Prep school fees - but we need to draft the best available and he's worth the wait"), BAT at 16 - Cole Huckins ("I don't care if he has said he's going State side, he's from Fredericton and would be honoured to play in Bathurst for a recent Memorial Cup champ - great move, Sly"), CHI at 18 - Oscar Plandowski ("sure he's said he's going south but, hey, he could be a huge add for a cup run next season - you go, girl")
...
The Sea Dogs at 22 select Peter Reynolds ... "OH MY GOD, those cheating ba$tard$ are at it again ... every F'n year they spend well over $100,000 trying to buy a championship ... Mr. Commissioner - where do we stand with the investigation and the new rules to stop those cheaters in Saint John???"
...
At 22 GAT takes Charles-Alexis Legault, at 29 CHI takes Jacob Guevin, and at 41 SHA takes Tovar Tinling ("NCAA be damned, we need more players from Quebec staying closer to home")
...
At 51, the Sea Dogs are proud to select from Selects Academy, Cameron MacDonald ... "There they go again - buying more high-end players - BA$TARD$!!!"
...
At 59, CHA takes Ryan Greene - "Great risk for a first round talent ... way to go Islanders, good on ya".
...
I'm Patrick Roy, I think I'll draft William Rousseau (80) Mikael Huchette (83), James Malatesta (116) and Eli Barnett (118). "Oh, St. Patrick, what would the QMJHL do without strong willed guys like you to blaze the trail to keep more kids in Quebec. You da man!!!"

I guess it truly is the Sea Dogs versus Everyone else in the Q.

Hahaha

How can Roy complain. Wasn’t it 2011 when Duclair was expected to go 2nd or 3rd overall that he was telling teams he was pursuing ncaa and then Patrick drafted him 3rd round 41st overall and rumoured to pay him $300k. The cost of his ncaa education and then some? All teams that have the capability do it. Money was no object when your putting 10000 on a bad night and 12000 on a good night in the seats!! Rumour also had it that’s why Druoin didn’t show up his first year because he wanted comparable packages to what MacKinnon and Duclair got. So he went back to MAAAA on the advice of his agent!!! I believe if caught tampering there is a $100k fine and lose of draft picks for 2 years. Believe it was initiated in 2009. Proving it is the hard thing

[scotian1]

Boy it would be nice if this thread reflected the title it is given.

[iraca]

Mr Bauer has no idea what he is talking about. The Seadogs have made money one year, and not because of extra payments to players. There have been some management issues over the years but not enough to account for the losses.

[killer]

With the error the Sea Dogs made with the development camp roster releasing Noah Patenaude’s name..... Is it safe to say that we will going with him in the upcoming Euro draft? Is he a highly touted prospect?