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Post by hockeylaw on Jan 1, 2020 22:24:03 GMT -4
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Post by gocapebreton on Jan 1, 2020 22:31:57 GMT -4
I am not missing anything. McIsaac and Groulx are in their final year of junior. Next year, Pelletier and Spence are in their final year. How are they possibly worth twice the value next year, as to McIsaac and Groulx this year. Look, I have no idea what the end trade is. But what sense is it to Halifax to trade these two high end final year guys, to get back two final year guys next year. It's not like it is not a competitive market this year. If they are returning the 1sts, what is the net gain. A couple of 2nds and a 3rd. Hardly worth the risk. Halifax is obviously not going in next year. It seems like you are missing the point... No one is saying that Pelletier and Spence are worth twice as much as Groulx and McIsaac, I don’t understand where you’re getting that from. You do understand that Halifax can trade Pelletier and Spence themselves, right? They don’t have to hold onto them. Moncton enters this trading period with two 1sts, two 2nds, 3 3rds. Most posters on this board seem to think the only prospect being given up this year is 3rd rounder Hebert. A post above, which I responded to, seems to value Pelletier, Spence, and Desnoyers at least at 5 1sts next year. That is how I am equating the double value. I just don't see how people see the benefit of Halifax getting Pelletier and Spence at the draft. If they are returning the 1sts, the net gain is minimal. I respectfully think you are missing the point. Why hold off a year on obtaining young prospects or picks. There is just no way that a combo of Spence and Pelletier should return more next year, than McIsaac and Groulx this year. |
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Post by hockeylaw on Jan 1, 2020 22:35:26 GMT -4
I don't know if this was mentioned here before, but it's worth noting that after acquiring Fortier tomorrow the Wildcats will have on their roster the 1st 4 selections of the 2016 Q entry draft. 1. B. Groulx 2. J. MacIsaac 3. O. Rodrigue 4. G. Fortier Essentially the cream of 19 year olds. I wonder if that has ever happened before. Dobson was picked 6th in that same draft...Cats hypothetically still have L'Heureux and Dobson has been scratched 6 of last 7 games. Wouldn't that be crazy if they ended up getting Dobson too! * I realize chances are 99.9% that it won't, but intriguing nonetheless. This IS GREAT ! Otherwise, that draft was atrocious for the Wildcats: www.eliteprospects.com/draft/qmjhl-entry-draft/2016 |
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Post by hockeylaw on Jan 1, 2020 22:46:17 GMT -4
It seems like you are missing the point... No one is saying that Pelletier and Spence are worth twice as much as Groulx and McIsaac, I don’t understand where you’re getting that from. You do understand that Halifax can trade Pelletier and Spence themselves, right? They don’t have to hold onto them. Moncton enters this trading period with two 1sts, two 2nds, 3 3rds. Most posters on this board seem to think the only prospect being given up this year is 3rd rounder Hebert. A post above, which I responded to, seems to value Pelletier, Spence, and Desnoyers at least at 5 1sts next year. That is how I am equating the double value. I just don't see how people see the benefit of Halifax getting Pelletier and Spence at the draft. If they are returning the 1sts, the net gain is minimal. I respectfully think you are missing the point. Why hold off a year on obtaining young prospects or picks. There is just no way that a combo of Spence and Pelletier should return more next year, than McIsaac and Groulx this year. Unless there is a 3rd team involved and I think it could also very well be the case and Pelletier and Spence never play a game for Halifax and get flipped to SJ at the draft. Quite possible. |
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Post by Briwhel on Jan 1, 2020 22:50:50 GMT -4
Moncton enters this trading period with two 1sts, two 2nds, 3 3rds. Most posters on this board seem to think the only prospect being given up this year is 3rd rounder Hebert. A post above, which I responded to, seems to value Pelletier, Spence, and Desnoyers at least at 5 1sts next year. That is how I am equating the double value. I just don't see how people see the benefit of Halifax getting Pelletier and Spence at the draft. If they are returning the 1sts, the net gain is minimal. I respectfully think you are missing the point. Why hold off a year on obtaining young prospects or picks. There is just no way that a combo of Spence and Pelletier should return more next year, than McIsaac and Groulx this year. Unless there is a 3rd team involved and I think it could also very well be the case and Pelletier and Spence never play a game for Halifax and get flipped to SJ at the draft. Quite possible. While SJ has to be interested, I don't think any deals are done. |
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Post by hockeylaw on Jan 1, 2020 22:57:07 GMT -4
Unless there is a 3rd team involved and I think it could also very well be the case and Pelletier and Spence never play a game for Halifax and get flipped to SJ at the draft. Quite possible. While SJ has to be interested, I don't think any deals are done. That we know of ? |
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Post by joehockey on Jan 1, 2020 23:00:20 GMT -4
It seems like you are missing the point... No one is saying that Pelletier and Spence are worth twice as much as Groulx and McIsaac, I don’t understand where you’re getting that from. You do understand that Halifax can trade Pelletier and Spence themselves, right? They don’t have to hold onto them. Moncton enters this trading period with two 1sts, two 2nds, 3 3rds. Most posters on this board seem to think the only prospect being given up this year is 3rd rounder Hebert. A post above, which I responded to, seems to value Pelletier, Spence, and Desnoyers at least at 5 1sts next year. That is how I am equating the double value. I just don't see how people see the benefit of Halifax getting Pelletier and Spence at the draft. If they are returning the 1sts, the net gain is minimal. I respectfully think you are missing the point. Why hold off a year on obtaining young prospects or picks. There is just no way that a combo of Spence and Pelletier will return more next year, than McIsaac and Groulx this year. I don’t know where you’re getting the number of picks at, but you’re wrong on those numbers other than the number of 1sts. What is traded now for Groulx is obviously not the end trade and it’s dumb to try to draw any kind of conclusions from it or the number of picks that Moncton has available for trades. Almost every major trade in the Q involves some type of “futures” agreement so it’s obvious that this trade does too. Based on past trades, guys like Groulx, McIsaac and Pelletier have gone for values at around 2 first round picks and together Spence and Desnoyers are likely worth around 3 firsts. Which means that Pelletier, Spence and Desnoyers would be worth 5 first rounders. So how are you equating Groulx and McIsaac being traded for Spence/Pelletier/3 seconds as anyone valuing Pelletier and Spence as “worth double” Groulx and McIsaac? Literally no one has said that or remotely implied that. It seems that you’ve invented that in your head and now need to defend it. It’s great that you can tell the future about what Pelletier and Spence will be worth next year, but it doesn’t matter whether you think it’s worth it, it matters whether that’s the best trade that was available for Halifax to take. Let us know what else Halifax was offered for these guys and then we compare. Halifax wouldn’t take a worse trade just so they could get young guys immediately, maybe that’s why some teams are well run and some aren’t. |
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Post by gocapebreton on Jan 1, 2020 23:20:00 GMT -4
Moncton enters this trading period with two 1sts, two 2nds, 3 3rds. Most posters on this board seem to think the only prospect being given up this year is 3rd rounder Hebert. A post above, which I responded to, seems to value Pelletier, Spence, and Desnoyers at least at 5 1sts next year. That is how I am equating the double value. I just don't see how people see the benefit of Halifax getting Pelletier and Spence at the draft. If they are returning the 1sts, the net gain is minimal. I respectfully think you are missing the point. Why hold off a year on obtaining young prospects or picks. There is just no way that a combo of Spence and Pelletier will return more next year, than McIsaac and Groulx this year. I don’t know where you’re getting the number of picks at, but you’re wrong on those numbers other than the number of 1sts. What is traded now for Groulx is obviously not the end trade and it’s dumb to try to draw any kind of conclusions from it or the number of picks that Moncton has available for trades. Almost every major trade in the Q involves some type of “futures” agreement so it’s obvious that this trade does too. Based on past trades, guys like Groulx, McIsaac and Pelletier have gone for values at around 2 first round picks and together Spence and Desnoyers are likely worth around 3 firsts. Which means that Pelletier, Spence and Desnoyers would be worth 5 first rounders. So how are you equating Groulx and McIsaac being traded for Spence/Pelletier/3 seconds as anyone valuing Pelletier and Spence as “worth double” Groulx and McIsaac? Literally no one has said that or remotely implied that. It seems that you’ve invented that in your head and now need to defend it. It’s great that you can tell the future about what Pelletier and Spence will be worth next year, but it doesn’t matter whether you think it’s worth it, it matters whether that’s the best trade that was available for Halifax to take. Let us know what else Halifax was offered for these guys and then we compare. Halifax wouldn’t take a worse trade just so they could get young guys immediately, maybe that’s why some teams are well run and some aren’t. I am well aware of how futures work. It doesn't necessarily make them fair. At the end of the day, Moncton only has two 1sts. And as you said , guys like Groulx and McIsaac go for 2 1sts each, with one usually being a projected top pick. Comparing to Joseph last year, McIsaac should be more than two 1sts. Then throw in Fortier. What's his value. It shows the flaws with these futures deals. |
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Post by WHEELsnipePARTY on Jan 1, 2020 23:46:50 GMT -4
I don’t know where you’re getting the number of picks at, but you’re wrong on those numbers other than the number of 1sts. What is traded now for Groulx is obviously not the end trade and it’s dumb to try to draw any kind of conclusions from it or the number of picks that Moncton has available for trades. Almost every major trade in the Q involves some type of “futures” agreement so it’s obvious that this trade does too. Based on past trades, guys like Groulx, McIsaac and Pelletier have gone for values at around 2 first round picks and together Spence and Desnoyers are likely worth around 3 firsts. Which means that Pelletier, Spence and Desnoyers would be worth 5 first rounders. So how are you equating Groulx and McIsaac being traded for Spence/Pelletier/3 seconds as anyone valuing Pelletier and Spence as “worth double” Groulx and McIsaac? Literally no one has said that or remotely implied that. It seems that you’ve invented that in your head and now need to defend it. It’s great that you can tell the future about what Pelletier and Spence will be worth next year, but it doesn’t matter whether you think it’s worth it, it matters whether that’s the best trade that was available for Halifax to take. Let us know what else Halifax was offered for these guys and then we compare. Halifax wouldn’t take a worse trade just so they could get young guys immediately, maybe that’s why some teams are well run and some aren’t. I am well aware of how futures work. It doesn't necessarily make them fair. At the end of the day, Moncton only has two 1sts. And as you said , guys like Groulx and McIsaac go for 2 1sts each, with one usually being a projected top pick. Comparing to Joseph last year, McIsaac should be more than two 1sts. Then throw in Fortier. What's his value. It shows the flaws with these futures deals. If the rumours are true that MacIsaac would only play here than his value isn’t the same as it would be in a bidding war |
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Post by mathew34 on Jan 2, 2020 6:29:36 GMT -4
I can't believe some Moncton fans think you are getting Groulx, McIsaac AND Fortier without giving up 1 1st round pick?? If this happens your GM should be GM of the decade. Guess you will see in June 😜 |
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mav
Blue-Chip Prospect
Take a shoot; Make a score!!!
Posts: 324
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Post by mav on Jan 2, 2020 8:46:09 GMT -4
Are we done now?...
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Post by hockeylaw on Jan 2, 2020 8:51:59 GMT -4
As some people have said including myself, I hope they can still improve on Huntley. |
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 2, 2020 9:27:52 GMT -4
Rumsey for Liam Leonard. One for one. Not a fan of this deal, Rumsey has nice upside. Yes, I agree, but at 18 he is still about 2 yrs away from reaching that upside. He reminds me of Zack McEwan. |
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Jan 2, 2020 9:28:54 GMT -4
Not a fan of this deal, Rumsey has nice upside. Yes, I agree, but at 18 he is still about 2 yrs away from reaching that upside. He reminds me of Zack McEwan. Reminds me of Mark Simpson |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 2, 2020 9:32:59 GMT -4
Not a fan of this deal, Rumsey has nice upside. Yes, I agree, but at 18 he is still about 2 yrs away from reaching that upside. He reminds me of Zack McEwan. I don’t think he will have the edge McEwan has but he is a better skater, more of a skill player. There is a parallel there. |
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