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Post by SteveUL on Mar 26, 2020 8:00:06 GMT -4
I had no say in the matter of trades ! I will always support my team but that doesn't mean that I have to like what they did at the trade deadline ! I always try to make it to all the games at the Avenir that I can, especially the playoffs. I don't support the going all in like Captain Obvious does ! I know that's the way most teams in the Qmjhl are headed , but I like building a good team through the draft and be competitive every season with some key additions when you have a really good team approach , like brian kilrea used to do in Ottawa with the 67's. I don't agree with trading 1st rounders before the draft. Your earlier post suggests that this statement is BS. "If L'heureux is gone and Pelletier doesn't come back I won't be renewing my season tickets for next season !" You bought your playoff tickets and were ready for the exciting run ... but you aren't willing to support the team as they work their way back up. So what you are saying is that you will not "always support your team". |
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Post by scotiahockey on Mar 26, 2020 9:00:00 GMT -4
I had no say in the matter of trades ! I will always support my team but that doesn't mean that I have to like what they did at the trade deadline ! I always try to make it to all the games at the Avenir that I can, especially the playoffs. I don't support the going all in like Captain Obvious does ! I know that's the way most teams in the Qmjhl are headed , but I like building a good team through the draft and be competitive every season with some key additions when you have a really good team approach , like brian kilrea used to do in Ottawa with the 67's. I don't agree with trading 1st rounders before the draft. Nobody has ever won anything in the Q using that method. The only OHL team to do it was London and they spent a boatload of cash on US and NCAA bound players. This formula is not realistic for the WC IF you want a realistic shot at winning a title. That being said... Had the Cats better managed assets the last 8-9 years, they likely would not have needed the scorched earth rebuild in 16-17 or having to empty the cupboards in 19-20. They need to stop wasting good picks and young players on fringe depth guys in non contending years. The Aantalainen/Giguere/Huntley type deals. You keep your picks and draft young players, some can be productive players or trade bait when you really have a shot. Those 3 trades cost: 3rd 2019, 2nd 2020, Kingsbury-Fournier(16-2018 2nd rounder)and 2nd 2020. Those 2nd and 3rd round picks, if you draft well, can turn into top 9 forwards and top 4 d-men. /rant That’s basically what Rouyn-Noranda has done for the last 20 years? 3 seasons with less than 60 points since 96-97. They have 2 League championships and a finals loss to show for it, a Memorial Cup in and a loss in the Memorial Cup finals. As well as 4 more times where they bowed out in the 3rd round. Were they a great team this year? Obviously not but they weren’t a scorched earth rebuild like so many other teams coming off a Memorial Cup. The reason they can avoid that is because they pick their spot, to say you can’t do that in the Q is ridiculous and clearly false. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 26, 2020 9:26:53 GMT -4
Nobody has ever won anything in the Q using that method. The only OHL team to do it was London and they spent a boatload of cash on US and NCAA bound players. This formula is not realistic for the WC IF you want a realistic shot at winning a title. That being said... Had the Cats better managed assets the last 8-9 years, they likely would not have needed the scorched earth rebuild in 16-17 or having to empty the cupboards in 19-20. They need to stop wasting good picks and young players on fringe depth guys in non contending years. The Aantalainen/Giguere/Huntley type deals. You keep your picks and draft young players, some can be productive players or trade bait when you really have a shot. Those 3 trades cost: 3rd 2019, 2nd 2020, Kingsbury-Fournier(16-2018 2nd rounder)and 2nd 2020. Those 2nd and 3rd round picks, if you draft well, can turn into top 9 forwards and top 4 d-men. /rant That’s basically what Rouyn-Noranda has done for the last 20 years? 3 seasons with less than 60 points since 96-97. They have 2 League championships and a finals loss to show for it, a Memorial Cup in and a loss in the Memorial Cup finals. As well as 4 more times where they bowed out in the 3rd round. Were they a great team this year? Obviously not but they weren’t a scorched earth rebuild like so many other teams coming off a Memorial Cup. The reason they can avoid that is because they pick their spot, to say you can’t do that in the Q is ridiculous and clearly false. RN has been the best drafting team in the Q the past 10 years. However, they have still traded for a pile of star/impact players: Kucherov, Beauvillier, St.Cyr, Meier, Dobson, Brouillard, Teasdale and LP Cote. RN is the poster boy for not trading away 2nd to 5th round picks on depth players in non contending years. They also sold this year and will likely be rebuilding next year. |
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Post by scotiahockey on Mar 26, 2020 9:37:57 GMT -4
That’s basically what Rouyn-Noranda has done for the last 20 years? 3 seasons with less than 60 points since 96-97. They have 2 League championships and a finals loss to show for it, a Memorial Cup in and a loss in the Memorial Cup finals. As well as 4 more times where they bowed out in the 3rd round. Were they a great team this year? Obviously not but they weren’t a scorched earth rebuild like so many other teams coming off a Memorial Cup. The reason they can avoid that is because they pick their spot, to say you can’t do that in the Q is ridiculous and clearly false. RN has been the best drafting team in the Q the past 10 years. However, they have still traded for a pile of star/impact players: Kucherov, Beauvillier, St.Cyr, Meier, Dobson, Brouillard, Teasdale and LP Cote. RN is the poster boy for not trading away 2nd to 5th round picks on depth players in non contending years. They also sold this year and will likely be rebuilding next year. Yes they traded for a bunch but that’s them making moves to get stars when they can contend. They don’t go scorched earth rebuild because they’ve set themselves up for success by drafting well and doing things the right way. They’ll rebuild (which they’ve done many times) but they won’t have to go the way of other teams because they do things right. Completely bottoming out doesn’t have to happen. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 26, 2020 10:57:56 GMT -4
RN has been the best drafting team in the Q the past 10 years. However, they have still traded for a pile of star/impact players: Kucherov, Beauvillier, St.Cyr, Meier, Dobson, Brouillard, Teasdale and LP Cote. RN is the poster boy for not trading away 2nd to 5th round picks on depth players in non contending years. They also sold this year and will likely be rebuilding next year. Yes they traded for a bunch but that’s them making moves to get stars when they can contend. They don’t go scorched earth rebuild because they’ve set themselves up for success by drafting well and doing things the right way. They’ll rebuild (which they’ve done many times) but they won’t have to go the way of other teams because they do things right. Completely bottoming out doesn’t have to happen. That was the point of my initial post. If you keep young picks in non contending year and draft well(this has been a big issue in the 2010's), then you don't need the scorched earth rebuild or have to add 3-4 impact players, maybe you only add 1. |
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Post by scotiahockey on Mar 26, 2020 11:06:56 GMT -4
Yes they traded for a bunch but that’s them making moves to get stars when they can contend. They don’t go scorched earth rebuild because they’ve set themselves up for success by drafting well and doing things the right way. They’ll rebuild (which they’ve done many times) but they won’t have to go the way of other teams because they do things right. Completely bottoming out doesn’t have to happen. That was the point of my initial post. If you keep young picks in non contending year and draft well(this has been a big issue in the 2010's), then you don't need the scorched earth rebuild or have to add 3-4 impact players, maybe you only add 1. You also said that Q teams can’t win that way and I was just pointing out to you that they can. Through drafting and developing well, they only have to add when they have a team that can go for it and don’t have to bottom out in the non-contending years. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 26, 2020 11:41:45 GMT -4
That was the point of my initial post. If you keep young picks in non contending year and draft well(this has been a big issue in the 2010's), then you don't need the scorched earth rebuild or have to add 3-4 impact players, maybe you only add 1. You also said that Q teams can’t win that way and I was just pointing out to you that they can. Through drafting and developing well, they only have to add when they have a team that can go for it and don’t have to bottom out in the non-contending years. By "that way" meaning always having a strong team and never "loading up" and "rebuilding" no. As I said with RN, they added 5 or 6 star players and 8 or 9 impact players overall the last few years. RN is what I would like the Cats to be doing, but there is still a cycle there, it's just not as low on rebuilding years and not as many impact guys need to be added. The theory with the Kilrea system was to be strong every year and not trade your top picks or young players, basically no cycle. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 26, 2020 11:51:52 GMT -4
That was the point of my initial post. If you keep young picks in non contending year and draft well(this has been a big issue in the 2010's), then you don't need the scorched earth rebuild or have to add 3-4 impact players, maybe you only add 1. You also said that Q teams can’t win that way and I was just pointing out to you that they can. Through drafting and developing well, they only have to add when they have a team that can go for it and don’t have to bottom out in the non-contending years. I think RN is just a popular pick because they're coming off of their peak. 5 or 10 years ago nobody would have listed them as some model franchise. They just had a good run of solid drafting and developing but the fact they're taking the step back now proves they're not doing it every year like people mean when using the London example. Rouyn finished last overall in 2010-2011. And went from there to 15th to 8th to 10th to 11th before 1st, 2nd, 7th, 1st. I think everyone is making too much out of what was really just 1 amazing cycle that can be broken down to just 2-3 amazing drafts. When people talk London or Kilrea Ottawa teams they're basically looking to do away with any cycle and just want their teams to win 40 games every year. There's basically no Q teams who have followed those models with any long term success to replicate. Now that Rouyn example just might be as good as it gets in this league. And I think that's what some are missing. The London model is due to many factors that no Q teams have going for them. The closest we probably came in terms of those factors going for a Q team was Patrick Roy's Remparts of the 00's that tried to get into the American market before the rule changes made it pointless. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 26, 2020 12:38:28 GMT -4
You also said that Q teams can’t win that way and I was just pointing out to you that they can. Through drafting and developing well, they only have to add when they have a team that can go for it and don’t have to bottom out in the non-contending years. I think RN is just a popular pick because they're coming off of their peak. 5 or 10 years ago nobody would have listed them as some model franchise. They just had a good run of solid drafting and developing but the fact they're taking the step back now proves they're not doing it every year like people mean when using the London example. Rouyn finished last overall in 2010-2011. And went from there to 15th to 8th to 10th to 11th before 1st, 2nd, 7th, 1st. I think everyone is making too much out of what was really just 1 amazing cycle that can be broken down to just 2-3 amazing drafts. When people talk London or Kilrea Ottawa teams they're basically looking to do away with any cycle and just want their teams to win 40 games every year. There's basically no Q teams who have followed those models with any long term success to replicate. Now that Rouyn example just might be as good as it gets in this league. And I think that's what some are missing. The London model is due to many factors that no Q teams have going for them. The closest we probably came in terms of those factors going for a Q team was Patrick Roy's Remparts of the 00's that tried to get into the American market before the rule changes made it pointless. Pretty much sums it up. Without the big bucks and being able to spend it on US stars like London does, it's virtually impossible to have no valleys. |
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Post by hockeyfanatic on Mar 26, 2020 18:05:14 GMT -4
I didn't say I didn't like the team after the deadline , but as a fan that actually buys season tickets and playoff ticketsand attends games, I would like to see a competitive team every year. Do I expect them to win it all every year ? thats not realistic, but trading the farm away for 1 season and there is no guarantee that you will win the presidents cup or memorial cup seems crazy !
Tochetti had this team playing great before the deadline , rolling 4 lines , bringing up rookies to get some experience with moncton's systems.
I would have added BO groulx and MacIssac and stopped there, keeping Lavalle would have been a better option in my opinion as he was playing very well when Rodrique was at the WJHC.
London has an unfair advantage that no one else has , not sure how they can get away with it but they do.
I'm not surprised that the Q has had some strong teams at the memorial cup recently because of the ability to trade 1st rounders before they are drafted. The speed of the last 2 years memorial cup champs was impressive to watch and it looked like Moncton had a very fast team this year.
I guess I got spoiled watching good teams in Ottawa under Kilrea and also got lucky with good teams in Barrie,
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 27, 2020 8:17:20 GMT -4
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Post by WhiteTyAffair on Mar 29, 2020 16:20:34 GMT -4
My Sunday Thoughts:
Desnoyers and L'Heureux will go to Halifax as compensation for Groulx and McIsaac. The Wildcats will receive all picks back except the 2021 1st round pick.
As for next season's lineup....
Pelletier - Daoust - Import
2020 Draft Pick - Import - Hudson (20)
Foreman - Langlois - FA
FA - Leblanc - Watt
Extras: 2020 Draft Pick, FA
Berube - Spence
Stewart - DeJong (20)
Pavan - Wilson
Extras: Dow, Pilote
Lund Cornish (20)
FA
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Post by catzfans on Mar 29, 2020 16:26:50 GMT -4
My Sunday Thoughts: Desnoyers and L'Heureux will go to Halifax as compensation for Groulx and McIsaac. The Wildcats will receive all picks back except the 2021 1st round pick. As for next season's lineup.... Pelletier - Daoust - Import 2020 Draft Pick - Import - Hudson (20) Foreman - Langlois - FA FA - Leblanc - Watt Extras: 2020 Draft Pick, FA Berube - Spence Stewart - DeJong (20) Pavan - FA Extras: Dow, Pilote Lund Cornish (20) FA Do I never hope you are wrong. If that is the actual deal than what a disaster. Giving up L'Hereux alone and now we need to add in Desnoyers in addition? |
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Post by Briwhel on Mar 29, 2020 16:33:33 GMT -4
My Sunday Thoughts: Desnoyers and L'Heureux will go to Halifax as compensation for Groulx and McIsaac. The Wildcats will receive all picks back except the 2021 1st round pick. As for next season's lineup.... Pelletier - Daoust - Import 2020 Draft Pick - Import - Hudson (20) Foreman - Langlois - FA FA - Leblanc - Watt Extras: 2020 Draft Pick, FA Berube - Spence Stewart - DeJong (20) Pavan - FA Extras: Dow, Pilote Lund Cornish (20) FA I highly doubt a 16 yo 2nd or later pick is 2nd c. Almost certainly that will either be an invite or a cheap trade. |
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Post by WhiteTyAffair on Mar 29, 2020 16:53:00 GMT -4
My Sunday Thoughts: Desnoyers and L'Heureux will go to Halifax as compensation for Groulx and McIsaac. The Wildcats will receive all picks back except the 2021 1st round pick. As for next season's lineup.... Pelletier - Daoust - Import 2020 Draft Pick - Import - Hudson (20) Foreman - Langlois - FA FA - Leblanc - Watt Extras: 2020 Draft Pick, FA Berube - Spence Stewart - DeJong (20) Pavan - FA Extras: Dow, Pilote Lund Cornish (20) FA I highly doubt a 16 yo 2nd or later pick is 2nd c. Almost certainly that will either be an invite or a cheap trade. My hope is Moncton drafts one of the NCAA guys (Dumais, Lastarza, Rozzi) and they report. |
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