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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 3, 2023 9:52:13 GMT -4
I've viewed this as simply someone great coming along in the social media era. He's basically scoring at will right now. Which is highly entertaining to watch live if you have the chance. But I don't think it's because of TSN that he's hyped....it's just because of what he's doing. Am I completely blanking on the Crosby era or were our rinks not all sold our or close to it those few times Rimouski came to town? There wasn't the same nightly focus from the national outlets and I get that the WHL is in bigger markets but to me the hype on Bedard hasn't been big enough in terms of what his potential is. I honestly think Crosby was more hyped but didn't have the social media effect like Bedard does. But I can see Bedard being an entire level above Crosby in terms of greatness when he's done playing. I agree with this, I don’t think TSN is hyping him up as much as there’s a bigger platform for him now then there was for McDavid even 10 years ago. Then you combine that with the historic performance at the WJC where Canada ultimately prevails and the legend grows even more. Where I draw a line though is saying I can see his greatness being an entire level above Crosby’s… he’s the elite of the elite when it comes to prospects and anyone who says otherwise is doing it to be contrarian.. the same thing happened with McDavid. I think McDavid at his peak (assuming this is his peak) is better than Crosby’s but for me, unless McDavid wins a cup, I can’t say he’s greater. Part of greatness for me, when you’re talking history/a players legacy is the ability to win at the highest level, whether it’s a Cup, Olympic gold medal, etc, etc. Crosby might very well be a top 10 player of all time, if Bedard is an entire level above him, that’s a lofty claim for a 17 YO kid. Now maybe I’m thinking too literal about this with just on ice performance/success, with social media, we could see players reaching new heights of fame and exposure, that definitely is a factor when we look back a players greatness and we could see players reach new heights. If that’s what you mean, I can see that happening. If we’re talking on ice success, I have a harder time because knowing what Crosby has done, there isn’t really many levels higher for him to go. Yes, its more around exposure and the potential he'll have to make a larger name for himself. I also think the next 20 years or so sees some changes to how players view the salary cap and their own earnings as the cap starts to go higher and take a substantial jump somewhat soon. Crosby played in the initial cap system where teams were learning their way around it and I think a system that saw 3 teams spread around multiple championships over a decade or so could end up as a great team winning 4-5 in a system with more money to spread around and keep everyone happy. So I do think there's potential for Bedard to be a more decorated player in terms of NHL championships then we've seen in decades. But the exposure stuff has no limit right now for someone that young and that good potentially going into markets that may show more potential with one of the leagues superstars playing in it. If he goes to Anaheim he's in Hollywoods back yard. Columbus would embrace him in a huge way. Arizona wont be in a CHL rink forever. I think there's more personality there for the league to show off, especially as the game opens up a bit more offensively. The biggest thing, which should cost Gary Bettman his job, is the lack of best on best competitions we lack now. For the longest time we just knew our countries best would play with each other every few years. The fact Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid have never had the chance to play together is criminal. Doing long time harm to the future of the sport in North American in my opinion. Unless you only want to evaluate the NHL's growth internally and ignore how basically every other sport has grown with way more revenue and MLS is coming up the middle to knock hockey even out of 4th sport in the North American sporting landscape. But get Bedard and McDavid 2-3 chances to do great things and I think the younger Connor has chance to be among the greatest ever. But a few things have to go his way, like any great player in a lot of ways.
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Post by bois on Feb 3, 2023 10:20:46 GMT -4
US viewership is way down
that should cost Bettman his job
also makes me believe Bedard would be better off in a US market for the NHL sake
i'm betting they hope it's Chicago
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Post by scotiahockey on Feb 3, 2023 11:00:25 GMT -4
I agree with this, I don’t think TSN is hyping him up as much as there’s a bigger platform for him now then there was for McDavid even 10 years ago. Then you combine that with the historic performance at the WJC where Canada ultimately prevails and the legend grows even more. Where I draw a line though is saying I can see his greatness being an entire level above Crosby’s… he’s the elite of the elite when it comes to prospects and anyone who says otherwise is doing it to be contrarian.. the same thing happened with McDavid. I think McDavid at his peak (assuming this is his peak) is better than Crosby’s but for me, unless McDavid wins a cup, I can’t say he’s greater. Part of greatness for me, when you’re talking history/a players legacy is the ability to win at the highest level, whether it’s a Cup, Olympic gold medal, etc, etc. Crosby might very well be a top 10 player of all time, if Bedard is an entire level above him, that’s a lofty claim for a 17 YO kid. Now maybe I’m thinking too literal about this with just on ice performance/success, with social media, we could see players reaching new heights of fame and exposure, that definitely is a factor when we look back a players greatness and we could see players reach new heights. If that’s what you mean, I can see that happening. If we’re talking on ice success, I have a harder time because knowing what Crosby has done, there isn’t really many levels higher for him to go. Yes, its more around exposure and the potential he'll have to make a larger name for himself. I also think the next 20 years or so sees some changes to how players view the salary cap and their own earnings as the cap starts to go higher and take a substantial jump somewhat soon. Crosby played in the initial cap system where teams were learning their way around it and I think a system that saw 3 teams spread around multiple championships over a decade or so could end up as a great team winning 4-5 in a system with more money to spread around and keep everyone happy. So I do think there's potential for Bedard to be a more decorated player in terms of NHL championships then we've seen in decades. But the exposure stuff has no limit right now for someone that young and that good potentially going into markets that may show more potential with one of the leagues superstars playing in it. If he goes to Anaheim he's in Hollywoods back yard. Columbus would embrace him in a huge way. Arizona wont be in a CHL rink forever. I think there's more personality there for the league to show off, especially as the game opens up a bit more offensively. The biggest thing, which should cost Gary Bettman his job, is the lack of best on best competitions we lack now. For the longest time we just knew our countries best would play with each other every few years. The fact Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid have never had the chance to play together is criminal. Doing long time harm to the future of the sport in North American in my opinion. Unless you only want to evaluate the NHL's growth internally and ignore how basically every other sport has grown with way more revenue and MLS is coming up the middle to knock hockey even out of 4th sport in the North American sporting landscape. But get Bedard and McDavid 2-3 chances to do great things and I think the younger Connor has chance to be among the greatest ever. But a few things have to go his way, like any great player in a lot of ways. I definitely think the NHL would be better off if Bedard ended up in a market that isn’t the strongest. He’s a franchise changer, he’ll basically do what Crosby did for Pittsburgh or what McDavid would have done had he not ended up in Edmonton. It’s exciting for the franchise that gets him because your fortune immediately changes. The marketing potential on Bedard is way higher than the other guys too, you think about the other highly highly touted young kids who entered the league Crosby, McDavid, Tavares. They were all very polished with the media and almost lacked personality at times. You didn’t get much for sound bites or clips out of them. Bedard thought, he’s a gold mine. He’ll give you clips and sound bites, there’s an innate swagger to him and he just exudes confidence.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 3, 2023 11:01:27 GMT -4
US viewership is way down that should cost Bettman his job also makes me believe Bedard would be better off in a US market for the NHL sake i'm betting they hope it's Chicago I don't think anything is close to costing Bettman his job, he'll have it till he doesn't want it any more. In his 30 years the NHL grew it's revenue by almost 600%, from 700+ million to a 5+ billion dollar business annually.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 3, 2023 11:05:10 GMT -4
Yes, its more around exposure and the potential he'll have to make a larger name for himself. I also think the next 20 years or so sees some changes to how players view the salary cap and their own earnings as the cap starts to go higher and take a substantial jump somewhat soon. Crosby played in the initial cap system where teams were learning their way around it and I think a system that saw 3 teams spread around multiple championships over a decade or so could end up as a great team winning 4-5 in a system with more money to spread around and keep everyone happy. So I do think there's potential for Bedard to be a more decorated player in terms of NHL championships then we've seen in decades. But the exposure stuff has no limit right now for someone that young and that good potentially going into markets that may show more potential with one of the leagues superstars playing in it. If he goes to Anaheim he's in Hollywoods back yard. Columbus would embrace him in a huge way. Arizona wont be in a CHL rink forever. I think there's more personality there for the league to show off, especially as the game opens up a bit more offensively. The biggest thing, which should cost Gary Bettman his job, is the lack of best on best competitions we lack now. For the longest time we just knew our countries best would play with each other every few years. The fact Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid have never had the chance to play together is criminal. Doing long time harm to the future of the sport in North American in my opinion. Unless you only want to evaluate the NHL's growth internally and ignore how basically every other sport has grown with way more revenue and MLS is coming up the middle to knock hockey even out of 4th sport in the North American sporting landscape. But get Bedard and McDavid 2-3 chances to do great things and I think the younger Connor has chance to be among the greatest ever. But a few things have to go his way, like any great player in a lot of ways. I definitely think the NHL would be better off if Bedard ended up in a market that isn’t the strongest. He’s a franchise changer, he’ll basically do what Crosby did for Pittsburgh or what McDavid would have done had he not ended up in Edmonton. It’s exciting for the franchise that gets him because your fortune immediately changes. The marketing potential on Bedard is way higher than the other guys too, you think about the other highly highly touted young kids who entered the league Crosby, McDavid, Tavares. They were all very polished with the media and almost lacked personality at times. You didn’t get much for sound bites or clips out of them. Bedard thought, he’s a gold mine. He’ll give you clips and sound bites, there’s an innate swagger to him and he just exudes confidence. Arizona has high potential to be a strong market but shitty ownership and a lack of star power has killed them. The biggest star they have had is Shane Doan. LV has had a team 4 years and they have already had bigger stars. They are #1 on the list of markets where it would help grow the game like Gretzky in LA. Phoenix is one of the 10 biggest metro areas in the US with around 5M people. They also have a lot of snowbirds and Western Canadians living there all winter.
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Post by bois on Feb 3, 2023 11:19:28 GMT -4
did you know Jeremy Roenick, Keith Tkachuk, Phil Kessel, Mike Gartner, Nikolai Khabibulin, CRaig Janney, Rick Tochet, Daniel Briere,Sean Burke, Claude Lemieux, Tony Amonte, Brett Hull, Curtis Joseph, Owen NOlan, Ed Jovanovski, Olli Jokinen, Taylor Hall and as a coach Wayne Gretzky
all played at some point with the Coyotes
sorry Doan is not the biggest star they had
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 3, 2023 11:29:21 GMT -4
US viewership is way down that should cost Bettman his job also makes me believe Bedard would be better off in a US market for the NHL sake i'm betting they hope it's Chicago I don't think anything is close to costing Bettman his job, he'll have it till he doesn't want it any more. In his 30 years the NHL grew it's revenue by almost 600%, from 700+ million to a 5+ billion dollar business annually. It should be higher, though. Again he's analyzed vs his own league. People just don't get that you don't analyze someone like that vs their own year over year growth. It needs to be compared vs similar leagues. What about every other league that has even more growth? MLS teams cost $10 million less than 20 years ago. A TV product like the NHL in 2022 should have higher revenues. Higher viewership. But its own archaic measures have killed growth. If you don't see it....you're blind to it. Kids don't watch hockey any more. Between blackouts and silly marketing gimmicks people who have followed the league for decades cant even find their favorite team on their TV these days....50% of the time they're met with a "you pay for this channel but this game is blacked out" message. But I just don't see how you can even try to defend Bettman based on 30 years of sucking the life out of the sport and missing 1 entire playoffs and basically 2+ full regular seasons which cost the sport god knows how much in revenue and interest on the other end. We're suckers when it comes to Bettman. Giving the guy credit for something Gretzky did before anyone knew who Bettman was in terms of growing the game in the sunbelt. How much revenue and interest has been lost by losing 2 Canadian teams even though we eventually bailed out his failed expansion by bringing 1 back. How much revenue and interest lost in a season wide lockout? How much revenue is lost by an Arizona playing in a CHL rink after 2+ decades of completely being bailed out by the other 30 teams? How much revenue has been lost on the NEXT TV deal after the terrible ratings partly due to the setup of this deal? Focusing more on Rogers playing nice editorially than spreading the rights around in a way to benefit Canadians was a short coming that again people don't knock him at all for yet the vanilla, and at times unwatchable, broadcasts come from his direction. So you also won't hear too much about any scandals including the many sexual assaults on that TV network because the NHL doesn't think thats a proper thing for its broadcast partner to share. I could go on for another hour about how Gary Bettman has completely tossed money away in big markets to mainly focus on the survival of small non-traditional markets but the facts are that the damage is done. And if we keep ignoring it....we wake up in 25 years or so wondering why the NHL is #2 or 3 in Canadians interest....but after about 50 years of people being unable to watch a game they've paid for i'd say they'd have more than moved on. A generation of fans have been lost by trying to force feed regional representation down their throat. We used to cheer for who our brother, uncles, grandfathers used to cheer for. Now we're not even allowed to watch those games without paying more money to the NHL or pirating it online. And we wonder why so many just start to tune it out.
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Post by bois on Feb 3, 2023 11:35:36 GMT -4
can't get my son who loves hockey to watch a full NHL game
most of his friends same thing
they know all the players nowadays from the NHL videogames playing against each other and youtube highlights
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Post by hal on Feb 3, 2023 13:04:16 GMT -4
Coyotes have had enough slack given to them for enough years ......Bettman would never do that for a Canadian Team . I am a Habs Fan but I hope that Bedard ends up in Chicago .
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Post by chootoi on Feb 3, 2023 13:19:13 GMT -4
did you know Jeremy Roenick, Keith Tkachuk, Phil Kessel, Mike Gartner, Nikolai Khabibulin, CRaig Janney, Rick Tochet, Daniel Briere,Sean Burke, Claude Lemieux, Tony Amonte, Brett Hull, Curtis Joseph, Owen NOlan, Ed Jovanovski, Olli Jokinen, Taylor Hall and as a coach Wayne Gretzky all played at some point with the Coyotes sorry Doan is not the biggest star they had I've been a hardcore Yotes fan since the (original) Jets days, so I'll make a case here. Tkachuk and Roenick to me are probably the only 2 besides Doan you would classify as stars in their prime during their time there, and that was 25 years ago. On a Mount Rushmore of Coyotes there's Doan, Tkachuk, Roenick, and probably Doan again lol. Most of those guys - Janney, Tocchet, Nolan, Kessel, Gartner, Lemieux were all way past their primes and aren't really superstars anyway. Good players but not franchise level players. Maybe Gartner but he was 126 years old when he played his last 2 seasons in Arizona. -Briere was just emerging with the Yotes. He really busted out with Buffalo. -Hull played 5 games before bailing and retiring mid season -Jokinen played basically a half season. Was not a star player -Hall played a half season and was not really impactful -Khabibulin was great and my all time favourite player but I wouldn't really classify him as a star. His success also came later with Tampa -Gretzky and his oldboys club ran the team into the ground. Did more harm than good -Jovo at the time was a decent signing but his best years were in Vancouver -Joseph was solid during his 2 seasons but was long past his prime -Amonte played one season and also only ever had one PPG season his whole career. To me that is not a star player. He is more remembered for his Upper Deck rookie card where he's playing in the ocean with Doug Weight circa 1990 or whatever it was. So to say they've had star names is true, but they were just that - "names". It's mostly been guys on the back nine of their careers. Not really impactful and marketable household names like Crosby, McDavid, Mackinnon, Stamkos, Price, etc. that you would expect. I don't remember the last time a Coyote even sniffed the first page of scoring leaders. Doan might have been mid 2010's but he's been retired now over 5 seasons. Right now they have Keller who is emerging the same way Briere did. That could be something. He is having a great year but he is still not even in the top 50 in scoring. Guenther may develop into a Jeff Carter type. He may not. We'll see. Chychrun wants out. Barrett Hayton is just meh. They have had many horrendous ownerships which have not helped, but the draft "luck" has been terrible also. They were leap frogged in the Patrick Kane draft and the McDavid draft. They were leap frogged twice in 2018 (Dahlin draft).
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Post by bois on Feb 3, 2023 13:22:08 GMT -4
i was just listing names to put into discussion
i don't really consider Shane Doan a star either
he was simply a solid player who remained loyal to the franchise
but i respect your opinion
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 3, 2023 14:11:52 GMT -4
can't get my son who loves hockey to watch a full NHL game most of his friends same thing they know all the players nowadays from the NHL videogames playing against each other and youtube highlights You used to be able to get NHL and MLB games on any TV for free. I grew up with my grandparents mostly only ever having 3 channels yet on weekends you'd have Jays games (CBC and/or CTV) or hockey (CBC) so if I ever spent time with them there was usually a game on to watch but over time I grew up enjoying watching either sport. You can still get things on CBC OTA for free but its a completely different time now. And the relationships are very different. Now grandparents have internet and the kids show up with ipads or whatever to entertain themselves and the attention spans are not there to get through a 2+ hour sporting event. If the leagues dont try harder to get kids engaged there's an entire generation going to be lost to the next Tik Tok fads or youtube phenomenon.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Feb 3, 2023 14:12:57 GMT -4
did you know Jeremy Roenick, Keith Tkachuk, Phil Kessel, Mike Gartner, Nikolai Khabibulin, CRaig Janney, Rick Tochet, Daniel Briere,Sean Burke, Claude Lemieux, Tony Amonte, Brett Hull, Curtis Joseph, Owen NOlan, Ed Jovanovski, Olli Jokinen, Taylor Hall and as a coach Wayne Gretzky all played at some point with the Coyotes sorry Doan is not the biggest star they had Other than Hall, none were in their prime, they were washed up and on the way out. Hall was only there as a rental. I'm not talking about plugging guys who have a name, i mean having your own young star who will actually bring in fans long term.
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