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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 3, 2015 15:14:13 GMT -4
A few comments... -The team is set...yes and no, if you can add high end talent, like a top US player or 1st round pick, there are players you can move out. I wouldn't rule out trading an 18 year old forward to add another top 3-4 pick, they have a lot of good but not great 18 year old F's. Guys like Tibbo Bower or Leger could be expendable. -Tibbo will be 19, so they won't keep him on the 4th line, it's top 6 or trade/cut in all likelihood. Worst case, strong 3rd liner. -with the Euro pick so late, I wouldn't count on getting a 1st line caliber guy in the 1st and 2nd line in the 2nd, if they do it would be a huge success. It will be a challenge to get one top 6 F/top 4 D out of the draft. -Corson, at best will play 4th line, no way he goes from barely playing last year and struggling in MAAA to 3rd line next year, best case is he gives you a good #4 center, again, anything more would be a big bonus -I think you have Tibbo Leger Bower and Cormier too low, I would plan on Leger top 6(ahead of at least one Euro) and the others as the 3rd line. Smith-Askew-Garland(Smith gives you a strong grinder who can chip in) Tibbo/Euro-Johnson-Leger(solid 2 way line) Cormier-Bower-Murphy/Euro/Tibbo Murphy/Euro-Jacob-Corson-Archibald - on defense I expect McInnis to report and play top 4, I expect Johnston traded to make room for an OA goalie I didn't have them so much as lines, just putting them down as I remembered them really but I agree that it is likely 3rd line or nothing for Tibbo. A guy like Jacob may be in danger of losing his spot as well since I think he and Leger provide much of the same thing and Leger seemed to have received more ice time at the end of the year. I'm not sure McInnis reports unless you have heard something. He just committed to BC in the last year and his dad is a coach there. It would be great if he did though. If they do trade Johnston or Sweeney I would hope they only do it if they get a really good return. Zilbert and Beaton are probably serviceable 20s it just seems so jammed for forwards that it would be hard to fit them in. I wonder whether you could even trade them to a team at this point, I would expect nothing more than an 8th or 10th round pick if they were traded though. The euro draft is always a crap shoot. Moncton could end up with 2 great players but you're right, they could end up with a few that are not worth keeping. I think the approach that makes most sense with OA's is to trade either Sweeney or Johnston, obviously Sweeney has more value, you have to gauge the interest for both, if you can get a boatload for Sweeney(1st plus young player) then you do it for sure, my guess would be Sweeney is worth a 1st at least and Johnston a 3rd or 4th. If you can get a 6th to 10th for Zilbert or Beaton you move one of them...trading a guy like Tibbo to a contender(would be a solid 3rd liner on a contender) or an 18 year old to give more room for 16 and 17 year olds. I don't think the Cats will contend, pretty safe bet unless they miraculously find a top goalie and 2 star Euros, may as well break in some young players.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 3, 2015 15:14:55 GMT -4
A few comments... -The team is set...yes and no, if you can add high end talent, like a top US player or 1st round pick, there are players you can move out. I wouldn't rule out trading an 18 year old forward to add another top 3-4 pick, they have a lot of good but not great 18 year old F's. Guys like Tibbo Bower or Leger could be expendable. -Tibbo will be 19, so they won't keep him on the 4th line, it's top 6 or trade/cut in all likelihood. Worst case, strong 3rd liner. -with the Euro pick so late, I wouldn't count on getting a 1st line caliber guy in the 1st and 2nd line in the 2nd, if they do it would be a huge success. It will be a challenge to get one top 6 F/top 4 D out of the draft. -Corson, at best will play 4th line, no way he goes from barely playing last year and struggling in MAAA to 3rd line next year, best case is he gives you a good #4 center, again, anything more would be a big bonus -I think you have Tibbo Leger Bower and Cormier too low, I would plan on Leger top 6(ahead of at least one Euro) and the others as the 3rd line. Smith-Askew-Garland(Smith gives you a strong grinder who can chip in) Tibbo/Euro-Johnson-Leger(solid 2 way line) Cormier-Bower-Murphy/Euro/Tibbo Murphy/Euro-Jacob-Corson-Archibald - on defense I expect McInnis to report and play top 4, I expect Johnston traded to make room for an OA goalie I didn't have them so much as lines, just putting them down as I remembered them really but I agree that it is likely 3rd line or nothing for Tibbo. A guy like Jacob may be in danger of losing his spot as well since I think he and Leger provide much of the same thing and Leger seemed to have received more ice time at the end of the year. I'm not sure McInnis reports unless you have heard something. He just committed to BC in the last year and his dad is a coach there. It would be great if he did though. If they do trade Johnston or Sweeney I would hope they only do it if they get a really good return. Zilbert and Beaton are probably serviceable 20s it just seems so jammed for forwards that it would be hard to fit them in. I wonder whether you could even trade them to a team at this point, I would expect nothing more than an 8th or 10th round pick if they were traded though. The euro draft is always a crap shoot. Moncton could end up with 2 great players but you're right, they could end up with a few that are not worth keeping. I think the approach that makes most sense with OA's is to trade either Sweeney or Johnston, obviously Sweeney has more value, you have to gauge the interest for both, if you can get a boatload for Sweeney(1st plus young player) then you do it for sure, my guess would be Sweeney is worth a 1st at least and Johnston a 3rd or 4th. If you can get a 6th to 10th for Zilbert or Beaton you move one of them...trading a guy like Tibbo to a contender(would be a solid 3rd liner on a contender) or an 18 year old to give more room for 16 and 17 year olds. I don't think the Cats will contend, pretty safe bet unless they miraculously find a top goalie and 2 star Euros, may as well break in some young players. From what I heard Mcinnis would have stayed last year if they could have guaranteed him a top 4 spot, they could do it this year...not sure how credible the source is.
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Post by joehockey on Jun 3, 2015 15:16:36 GMT -4
I didn't have them so much as lines, just putting them down as I remembered them really but I agree that it is likely 3rd line or nothing for Tibbo. A guy like Jacob may be in danger of losing his spot as well since I think he and Leger provide much of the same thing and Leger seemed to have received more ice time at the end of the year. I'm not sure McInnis reports unless you have heard something. He just committed to BC in the last year and his dad is a coach there. It would be great if he did though. If they do trade Johnston or Sweeney I would hope they only do it if they get a really good return. Zilbert and Beaton are probably serviceable 20s it just seems so jammed for forwards that it would be hard to fit them in. I wonder whether you could even trade them to a team at this point, I would expect nothing more than an 8th or 10th round pick if they were traded though. The euro draft is always a crap shoot. Moncton could end up with 2 great players but you're right, they could end up with a few that are not worth keeping. I think the approach that makes most sense with OA's is to trade either Sweeney or Johnston, obviously Sweeney has more value, you have to gauge the interest for both, if you can get a boatload for Sweeney(1st plus young player) then you do it for sure, my guess would be Sweeney is worth a 1st at least and Johnston a 3rd or 4th. If you can get a 6th to 10th for Zilbert or Beaton you move one of them...trading a guy like Tibbo to a contender(would be a solid 3rd liner on a contender) or an 18 year old to give more room for 16 and 17 year olds. I don't think the Cats will contend, pretty safe bet unless they miraculously find a top goalie and 2 star Euros, may as well break in some young players. I agree, I think they are likely top 3 in the division though, at least one of Charlottetown, CB or Saint John will finish lower than people would expect them to.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 3, 2015 15:16:43 GMT -4
Hodge's article today seems to speculate that Johnston or Sweeney could be traded, the way he wrote the article and the quotes from Shannon, the WC would not have an issue keeping one of Zilbert and Beaton as OA. Maybe the other has some trade value, probably not a ton... One thing not mentioned is they desperately need a goalie and OA might be the best cheap way to add a solid goalie. Johnson is said to be the only lock. Can't see them trading both Sweeney and Johnston, so at least one stays. Shannon also states that there are likely a couple of returnees who don't make it...Rioux and ??Jacob seems like a player that might one who is competing for a spot. Same could be said for Bower or Tibbo depending on what others look like at Camp. I can't see any of the defence struggling to make it but they are older so maybe they move out a 19 (Klebanskyj) as well as a 20? Moving Tibbo and Klebankij might be a good plan, though depending on where they fit it could be moves made at midseason...
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 3, 2015 15:24:55 GMT -4
I think the approach that makes most sense with OA's is to trade either Sweeney or Johnston, obviously Sweeney has more value, you have to gauge the interest for both, if you can get a boatload for Sweeney(1st plus young player) then you do it for sure, my guess would be Sweeney is worth a 1st at least and Johnston a 3rd or 4th. If you can get a 6th to 10th for Zilbert or Beaton you move one of them...trading a guy like Tibbo to a contender(would be a solid 3rd liner on a contender) or an 18 year old to give more room for 16 and 17 year olds. I don't think the Cats will contend, pretty safe bet unless they miraculously find a top goalie and 2 star Euros, may as well break in some young players. I agree, I think they are likely top 3 in the division though, at least one of Charlottetown, CB or Saint John will finish lower than people would expect them to. I think CB will load up for this year, unless they are really unlucky, they should be a top contender for the division. PEI is coming into their own, I suspect they'll add a few pieces and be top 3, but not as old as CB. SJ is younger of the 3 but they have a crazy amount of talent on the team plus adding 3 top 10 picks and a top Euro pick. They may not contend early but should be a factor later on at worst. Bathurst should take a step forward, but still have holes. If Halifax loses Ehlers(very likely) they will take a step back. Moncton, should be in the mix mid pack with Bat Hal and maybe SJ if goaltending can be upgraded, if not it could get ugly.
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Post by mooseinfo on Jun 3, 2015 17:11:26 GMT -4
I agree, I think they are likely top 3 in the division though, at least one of Charlottetown, CB or Saint John will finish lower than people would expect them to. I think CB will load up for this year, unless they are really unlucky, they should be a top contender for the division. PEI is coming into their own, I suspect they'll add a few pieces and be top 3, but not as old as CB. SJ is younger of the 3 but they have a crazy amount of talent on the team plus adding 3 top 10 picks and a top Euro pick. They may not contend early but should be a factor later on at worst. Bathurst should take a step forward, but still have holes. If Halifax loses Ehlers(very likely) they will take a step back. Moncton, should be in the mix mid pack with Bat Hal and maybe SJ if goaltending can be upgraded, if not it could get ugly. What are you giving for Brassard.
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Post by wild1 on Jun 3, 2015 18:54:31 GMT -4
Nothing can be done now about players already drafted I.E. Corson, whether he works out or not. What I would like to see going forward is the Wildcats build their team the way Saint John does, they seem to hit the mark with Euros, Free Agents and US players. Most impressivley though they always seem to make trades that not only keep them competitive in the present , but also helps build towards the future, like 3 top 10 picks this year including number 1 overall. The Wildcats need to take a step back and look at how the Seadogs do things. Never mind taking guys high in the draft that are off the charts and can be had later, build smartly. Saint John has put their team back in a good position by having two seasons at the bottom again. They picked first overall last year and also got the high Euro pick. Their fan interest has suffered because of it. They are poised for another run now but paid the price at the bottom. I'd rather not take that approach to rebuilding. I'd rather have a strong team every year and tweak the lineup when you are one of the contenders. I don't fault SJ at all for the way they built their team ... they had back to back championship seasons ... and 3 trips in a row to the Prez Cup final ... and then they paid the price by dropping to the bottom and starting over. Great results ... but it comes at a price. If you could guarentee a championship season by having 3 years as a non-contender ... would you take it ? Sometimes spending a year or two in the lower third of the league is the only way to truly rebuild, you get higher picks and trade off some vets for prospects and even more picks. This trying to be a contender every year does not work, most times you end up a middle of the pack team year in and year out, last year was a bit of a fluke, the team played over their heads at times and were in a weaker division. They were not a true #2 overall team and that showed against Quebec and even Halifax at times. I have no problem with a couple down years if it means we build a team like the Seadogs did that contends for a QMJHL title and/or Memorial cup for 3 straight years. I would rather have a dominant team like that for 2-3 years than the middling around year after year even it means biting the bullet for a year or two.
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Jun 3, 2015 19:45:01 GMT -4
I have never seen the kid play. How many times have you actually seen him play ? The regular season game he dressed for in Moncton (vs Rim), he never saw the ice. I didn't see him in pre-season. I didn't see the final game in Halifax. What have you actually seen ? I think you are really jumping the gun on this. Just another shot at Shannon I guess. There was no reason for you to even bring this topic up unless it was your need to post Wildcat hate. ...and the pom poms are out! You should put on your tights and bring them to the games. He was a guy that many scouts felt was drafted way too early, funny that you say the same thing about a lot of Bathurst picks over the years but you get offended if it's a WC pick...funny how that works. I don't hate the Wildcats, on the contrary I'd like to see them be better...better at drafting, better at building a contender. I don't see the point of trading a 3rd and a 4th rounder to move up and draft a kid most had in rounds 6-8. To answer your question, I saw him twice in preseason, he didn't do much against a team of PEI rookies and he got banged around and looked out of place vs veterans. To me he didn't look any better than most undrafted FA's in camp, which is not good for a 2nd round pick. The scouts I spoke to said he did not stand out in MAAA either...another bad sign. Obviously he still has time, just stating the facts, which you seem to not want to face. I bet there were a lot of 15-year old rookies in their first major junior camp that didn't look stellar. And yes , I'm coming to the defense of a now 16 year old kid who's being thrown under the bus before he's even played a game...
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 4, 2015 6:56:18 GMT -4
Saint John has put their team back in a good position by having two seasons at the bottom again. They picked first overall last year and also got the high Euro pick. Their fan interest has suffered because of it. They are poised for another run now but paid the price at the bottom. I'd rather not take that approach to rebuilding. I'd rather have a strong team every year and tweak the lineup when you are one of the contenders. I don't fault SJ at all for the way they built their team ... they had back to back championship seasons ... and 3 trips in a row to the Prez Cup final ... and then they paid the price by dropping to the bottom and starting over. Great results ... but it comes at a price. If you could guarentee a championship season by having 3 years as a non-contender ... would you take it ? Sometimes spending a year or two in the lower third of the league is the only way to truly rebuild, you get higher picks and trade off some vets for prospects and even more picks. This trying to be a contender every year does not work, most times you end up a middle of the pack team year in and year out, last year was a bit of a fluke, the team played over their heads at times and were in a weaker division. They were not a true #2 overall team and that showed against Quebec and even Halifax at times. I have no problem with a couple down years if it means we build a team like the Seadogs did that contends for a QMJHL title and/or Memorial cup for 3 straight years. I would rather have a dominant team like that for 2-3 years than the middling around year after year even it means biting the bullet for a year or two. That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure most WC fans would trade the last 6-7 years of the Sea Dogs with the last 6-7 years of the WC. With the resources the Cats have with Euros and US players, rebuilding would be easier than for Bathurst or Baie Comeau, so they should not spend 3-4 years at the bottom.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 4, 2015 6:59:08 GMT -4
...and the pom poms are out! You should put on your tights and bring them to the games. He was a guy that many scouts felt was drafted way too early, funny that you say the same thing about a lot of Bathurst picks over the years but you get offended if it's a WC pick...funny how that works. I don't hate the Wildcats, on the contrary I'd like to see them be better...better at drafting, better at building a contender. I don't see the point of trading a 3rd and a 4th rounder to move up and draft a kid most had in rounds 6-8. To answer your question, I saw him twice in preseason, he didn't do much against a team of PEI rookies and he got banged around and looked out of place vs veterans. To me he didn't look any better than most undrafted FA's in camp, which is not good for a 2nd round pick. The scouts I spoke to said he did not stand out in MAAA either...another bad sign. Obviously he still has time, just stating the facts, which you seem to not want to face. I bet there were a lot of 15-year old rookies in their first major junior camp that didn't look stellar. And yes , I'm coming to the defense of a now 16 year old kid who's being thrown under the bus before he's even played a game... Usually those rookies that are top round picks stand out in rookie games. Guys like Chris Gaudet also looked good and he was a 10th or 11th round pick! The rookie games are about the level of Midget AAA, even the regular preseason games are not high caliber hockey, until the last couple of games half the guys will be cut and go play Jr.A or MAAA plus the veterans are just playing hard enough to get in shape and trying not to get hurt. How is he being "thrown under the bus"? Is he the one that traded two picks to go up and draft himself in the 2nd round? Nobody is "thrown under the bus", just making an observation that he hasn't looked good so far and looks far from a top 6 QMJHL forward, possibly will never be. You're over the top dramatic.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 4, 2015 7:36:45 GMT -4
Shannon dropped more hints this morning...said they are looking for a couple FA forwards to play top 6, so there will be a backlog in the 3rd and 4th lines if that happens. Obviously with the Euros, at least one will play top 6.
Garland-Askew Smith-Johnson
Plus 2 Euros and FA's battling for spots in the top 6.
Leger-Bower-Tibbo-Cormier-Murphy-Euro-Jacob-Corson-Archibald-Duquette-MacEwen for bottom 6 and extras. Expect a couple to be traded...
If the goalie is an OA then Zilbert and Beaton are out.
Hodge also hinted that Rioux might not be on the team at all, likely coming from the GM himself off the record, they are obviously looking for goaltending by trade or FA.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 4, 2015 7:41:37 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 8:40:09 GMT -4
In today's T&T, Roger Shannon says there's the possibility for three goalies to go in the first round. I'm assuming he means Derick Baribeau, Alex D'Orio and Zachary Bouthilier. Of those three, Bouthilier is said to have the most potential. One who could have a Zach Fucale-like Q career. Moncton fans may hate him, but you can't deny the his accomplishments in 4 seasons.
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Post by hockeyfanatic on Jun 4, 2015 8:40:25 GMT -4
I think Brassard is a good option , has playoff experience and could help develop a young backup. If Sweeney is back I would keep Sweeney / Johnson and Brassard if they trade for him ( I liked the speed that Zilbert brings but he would be out if Sweeney is back ). I doubt Moncton will go for a rebuild and if they want to remain competitive they will need a good goalie as the Maritime division should be stronger next year .
Moncton needs to add an Impact Euro to even have a really good top line , who will be to grinder/ scorer on that line ? I like Johnson but they need someone with speed/size and good hands to compliment Garland/Johnson.
Maybe Moncton should look at trading up their first round pick if there are any Impact players in the draft, not sure if there are any forwards or defencemen that fit in that category !
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Post by joehockey on Jun 4, 2015 8:54:11 GMT -4
Shannon dropped more hints this morning...said they are looking for a couple FA forwards to play top 6, so there will be a backlog in the 3rd and 4th lines if that happens. Obviously with the Euros, at least one will play top 6. Garland-Askew Smith-Johnson Plus 2 Euros and FA's battling for spots in the top 6. Leger-Bower-Tibbo-Cormier-Murphy-Euro-Jacob-Corson-Archibald-Duquette-MacEwen for bottom 6 and extras. Expect a couple to be traded... If the goalie is an OA then Zilbert and Beaton are out. Hodge also hinted that Rioux might not be on the team at all, likely coming from the GM himself off the record, they are obviously looking for goaltending by trade or FA. He must have the FAs lined up for him to say something like that. It seems unlikely he would just say that and then going looking for them. It's not like top 6 free agents are everywhere since if they are good enough to play this role they are doing so, on someone else's team
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