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Post by SteveUL on Sept 16, 2015 14:23:28 GMT -4
If you read the T&T article ... Shannon is on a committee with Russell and Mondou and a few other GMs ... and it is their job to clarify the rules. If he is on that committee, he should know the rules better than any other GM not on the committee (like Sonier). To suggest that these other teams pulled a fast one is simply wrong. They just know the rules better and worked them to their advantage.
From Jimmy's post ... maybe the Moose got the idea that Moncton was going to grab Putintsev because Moncton added him to the list. If that is the case, then Shannon got out maneuvered and it made his draft look even worse than it actually was.
I want my GM to bend the rules as far as they will go before you get penalized. I don't want a guy that stays in the slow lane all the time. If you aren't cheating ... you aren't winning.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Sept 16, 2015 14:32:39 GMT -4
The league does put out a list of players eligible for the draft each year prior to it ... as I understand, a player has to be on the list, or he is not draft eligible ... players on the list are primarily determined by CSR, however there is a section called "players added by teams" ... Its not like everyone thought Denisov was a Euro and Shawinigan pulled a fast one. Yeah bizarre complaint... everyone should know who are euro's and who are not, regardless of the rule which clarifies when a euro is considered to be North American. It's not like teams are drafting a 3rd euro, sticking them in some North American summer hockey program, and getting the euro designation lifted or something.
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Post by bois on Sept 16, 2015 14:39:47 GMT -4
the goalie Baie Comeau has from Russia was never drafted at all
and Yan probably should be classified as an American which would have made him eligible for the regular draft or a free agent invite
I hate to side with Moncton.... but Shannon could have a valid point here..... he obviously thinks he should get all Americans
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Post by joehockey on Sept 16, 2015 15:35:22 GMT -4
Its not like everyone thought Denisov was a Euro and Shawinigan pulled a fast one. Yeah bizarre complaint... everyone should know who are euro's and who are not, regardless of the rule which clarifies when a euro is considered to be North American. It's not like teams are drafting a 3rd euro, sticking them in some North American summer hockey program, and getting the euro designation lifted or something.But why would they be considered eligible to be drafted into the Q when they may have played slightly more than one year in NA while Yan who has American citizenship and has played a lot of his hockey in the US and played for the USNDTP is not? It seems like he would be less of a Euro than either Putintsev or Denisov so why isn't he playing in the OHL? Popov played two years at Notre Dame but was drafted in the Euro draft, why wouldn't he be WHL property? So how should teams know who is considered a euro when there are tons of examples of players who have played in NA going in the euro draft (even Galiev)? What if it is in fact the Q that screwed up by letting in the kid when they shouldn't have? That is what happened with Miromanov with Bathurst. Drafted by London last year, cut and played AAA in Toronto and now joined them as a free-agent the next year.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Sept 16, 2015 15:38:03 GMT -4
Yeah bizarre complaint... everyone should know who are euro's and who are not, regardless of the rule which clarifies when a euro is considered to be North American. It's not like teams are drafting a 3rd euro, sticking them in some North American summer hockey program, and getting the euro designation lifted or something. But why would they be considered eligible to be drafted into the Q when they may have played slightly more than one year in NA while Yan who has American citizenship and has played a lot of his hockey in the US and played for the USNDTP is not? It seems like he would be less of a Euro than either Putintsev or Denisov so why isn't he playing in the OHL? Popov played two years at Notre Dame but was drafted in the Euro draft, why wouldn't he be WHL property? So how should teams know who is considered a euro when there are tons of examples of players who have played in NA going in the euro draft (even Galiev)? What if it is in fact the Q that screwed up by letting in the kid when they shouldn't have? That is what happened with Miromanov with Bathurst. Drafted by London last year, cut and played AAA in Toronto and now joined them as a free-agent the next year. Maybe I am not understanding the issue... if they just want clarification or new rules to be written, that's fine. I was commenting on the idea that some teams are pulling fast ones and getting around the euro rule - but everyone SHOULD be on equal ground as far as knowing who the euro's are and are not.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Sept 16, 2015 16:49:02 GMT -4
Yeah bizarre complaint... everyone should know who are euro's and who are not, regardless of the rule which clarifies when a euro is considered to be North American. It's not like teams are drafting a 3rd euro, sticking them in some North American summer hockey program, and getting the euro designation lifted or something. But why would they be considered eligible to be drafted into the Q when they may have played slightly more than one year in NA while Yan who has American citizenship and has played a lot of his hockey in the US and played for the USNDTP is not? It seems like he would be less of a Euro than either Putintsev or Denisov so why isn't he playing in the OHL? Popov played two years at Notre Dame but was drafted in the Euro draft, why wouldn't he be WHL property? So how should teams know who is considered a euro when there are tons of examples of players who have played in NA going in the euro draft (even Galiev)? What if it is in fact the Q that screwed up by letting in the kid when they shouldn't have? That is what happened with Miromanov with Bathurst. Drafted by London last year, cut and played AAA in Toronto and now joined them as a free-agent the next year. Again though: as long as all 18 teams knew X player was eligible for X draft with a good amount of notice then any crying how is just sour grapes that someone got to a player before you did. A team that picks every top American player whining that a market like Shawinigan got a player before they did is kind of laughable in this league where we are led to believe that the top markets should always bring in the better players and the smaller markets need to do smarter managing and developing to try and level the playing field. Moncton has no real grounds to complain about much in regards to player recruiting. If they were NOT told that a Yan was Euro draft eligible or Denisov midget draft eligible then yes I agree there is reason to complain. But that certainly does not appear to be the case here. They should be complaining more about the exceptional player process and working on how to fix to prevent players being added to a draft with 48 hours notice then anything regarding Euros who are playing in the US and what draft they can go into.
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Post by Arnold Slick on Sept 16, 2015 18:48:57 GMT -4
Just re-reading the article again and I don't really take it as Shannon complaining at all. Just seems as though teams are looking for a clear definition of what makes a European eligible to be picked in the Q draft or signed as a free agent. Pretty reasonable.
Overall though it was a bit of a bizarre article. I'm not sure what point Neil Hodge was trying to make? Is he against this loophole? Is he for it? I have no idea.
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Post by joehockey on Sept 16, 2015 21:15:15 GMT -4
But why would they be considered eligible to be drafted into the Q when they may have played slightly more than one year in NA while Yan who has American citizenship and has played a lot of his hockey in the US and played for the USNDTP is not? It seems like he would be less of a Euro than either Putintsev or Denisov so why isn't he playing in the OHL? Popov played two years at Notre Dame but was drafted in the Euro draft, why wouldn't he be WHL property? So how should teams know who is considered a euro when there are tons of examples of players who have played in NA going in the euro draft (even Galiev)? What if it is in fact the Q that screwed up by letting in the kid when they shouldn't have? That is what happened with Miromanov with Bathurst. Drafted by London last year, cut and played AAA in Toronto and now joined them as a free-agent the next year. Again though: as long as all 18 teams knew X player was eligible for X draft with a good amount of notice then any crying how is just sour grapes that someone got to a player before you did. A team that picks every top American player whining that a market like Shawinigan got a player before they did is kind of laughable in this league where we are led to believe that the top markets should always bring in the better players and the smaller markets need to do smarter managing and developing to try and level the playing field. Moncton has no real grounds to complain about much in regards to player recruiting. If they were NOT told that a Yan was Euro draft eligible or Denisov midget draft eligible then yes I agree there is reason to complain. But that certainly does not appear to be the case here. They should be complaining more about the exceptional player process and working on how to fix to prevent players being added to a draft with 48 hours notice then anything regarding Euros who are playing in the US and what draft they can go into. He's not whining about not getting a player but asking WHY these players are eligible at all. Why should these players be able to circumvent the established rules to get into the league when all other euro players had to come in through the euro draft? The CHL should step in and make a determination about what makes a player eligible for the regular draft. It does affect scouting like he said when you are unaware who will and will not be considered a euro with regards to the regular drafts. Teams are not going to scout kids who they think are Europeans for the regular draft and waste time and money doing so. It doesn't help that they find out two weeks before the draft that a kid may be eligible for the draft and realize they should have actually scouted him from the start. Is the Q going to go through every euro playing in the U.S./Canada to let the teams know who to scout? Moncton choosing to pick Americans has nothing to do with allowing Europeans to come in through the regular draft so I'm not sure why you brought that up.
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Post by Arnold Slick on Sept 16, 2015 23:32:16 GMT -4
The league does put out a list of players eligible for the draft each year prior to it ... as I understand, a player has to be on the list, or he is not draft eligible ... players on the list are primarily determined by CSR, however there is a section called "players added by teams" ... Well then if a team knows by say June 1 that a Yan is in the Euro draft and Denisov is a North American then you cant really have much to complain about. I dont see how 1 team can conspire to get an advantage using those players when they are being drafted outside the top few picks. Its not like everyone thought Denisov was a Euro and Shawinigan pulled a fast one. I would say what is worse is drafting a lot of Americans and using financial resources to get them to commit. No teams would do that though What team does that? As we saw this past off-season it certainly isn't the Wildcats
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Post by SteveUL on Sept 17, 2015 6:25:01 GMT -4
Again though: as long as all 18 teams knew X player was eligible for X draft with a good amount of notice then any crying how is just sour grapes that someone got to a player before you did. A team that picks every top American player whining that a market like Shawinigan got a player before they did is kind of laughable in this league where we are led to believe that the top markets should always bring in the better players and the smaller markets need to do smarter managing and developing to try and level the playing field. Moncton has no real grounds to complain about much in regards to player recruiting. If they were NOT told that a Yan was Euro draft eligible or Denisov midget draft eligible then yes I agree there is reason to complain. But that certainly does not appear to be the case here. They should be complaining more about the exceptional player process and working on how to fix to prevent players being added to a draft with 48 hours notice then anything regarding Euros who are playing in the US and what draft they can go into. He's not whining about not getting a player but asking WHY these players are eligible at all. Why should these players be able to circumvent the established rules to get into the league when all other euro players had to come in through the euro draft? The CHL should step in and make a determination about what makes a player eligible for the regular draft. It does affect scouting like he said when you are unaware who will and will not be considered a euro with regards to the regular drafts. Teams are not going to scout kids who they think are Europeans for the regular draft and waste time and money doing so. It doesn't help that they find out two weeks before the draft that a kid may be eligible for the draft and realize they should have actually scouted him from the start. Is the Q going to go through every euro playing in the U.S./Canada to let the teams know who to scout? Moncton choosing to pick Americans has nothing to do with allowing Europeans to come in through the regular draft so I'm not sure why you brought that up. I view it as each team's individual responsibility to know who is eligible for the draft within the Q region.
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Post by bois on Sept 17, 2015 8:04:35 GMT -4
It should be pretty easy to rectify
If a player has to be declared eligible for the draft itself...... then everyone is theoretically responsible to know that..... but if you have a hotshot European born player who for whatever reason is playing his minor hockey in North America but is still considered a European .... they should not be eligible for the regular draft or to be added as a free agent invite
And if you have a rule to try and develop home grown goaltending talent.... it certainly looks like teams circumventing the process by grabbing these Russian goalies and considering them as non European players
Shawinigan GM is a master at loopholes......... he is probably the best in the Q actually...
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Post by SteveUL on Sept 19, 2015 6:56:26 GMT -4
Tibbo has been released and will play in Truro.
Watching some of the younger players like Crossman last night ... I'd like to see them get loads of icetime over a guy like MacEwan. He brings size but last night he was a 4th liner. I'd rather see Cyr back and let Corson Crossman Cyr rotate in and out. When Garland is back ... both Corson and Crossman will be in the stands.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 19, 2015 7:48:38 GMT -4
Tibbo has been released and will play in Truro. Watching some of the younger players like Crossman last night ... I'd like to see them get loads of icetime over a guy like MacEwan. He brings size but last night he was a 4th liner. I'd rather see Cyr back and let Corson Crossman Cyr rotate in and out. When Garland is back ... both Corson and Crossman will be in the stands. MacEwen had a nice camp, but the games since the season started he hasn't stood out, not good for a 19 year old vs teams missing their NHL camp guys. You can still keep him as an AF player. Even worse is Guay, I find he is barely a Q d-man, I'd rather see a 16 or 17 year old in that spot.
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Post by WildcatMapleLeafs on Sept 20, 2015 6:17:53 GMT -4
Tibbo has been released and will play in Truro. Watching some of the younger players like Crossman last night ... I'd like to see them get loads of icetime over a guy like MacEwan. He brings size but last night he was a 4th liner. I'd rather see Cyr back and let Corson Crossman Cyr rotate in and out. When Garland is back ... both Corson and Crossman will be in the stands. MacEwen had a nice camp, but the games since the season started he hasn't stood out, not good for a 19 year old vs teams missing their NHL camp guys. You can still keep him as an AF player. Even worse is Guay, I find he is barely a Q d-man, I'd rather see a 16 or 17 year old in that spot. I agree with this. Use McEwen as an affiliate and bring back Bernstein over Guay.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 19:46:27 GMT -4
Conor Garland on his way back to Moncton. Assigned by the Coyotes today.
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