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Astros
Jan 21, 2020 8:52:10 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by scotiahockey on Jan 21, 2020 8:52:10 GMT -4
so the Jays essentially traded there best young starter for next to nothing because of cheating effectively giving another reason why the 2017 WS title should be stripped I cheered for them in the World Series that year, but I'm in favor of that. They may never have even made it. You can argue that the Yankees would've been in the World Series that year. That’s probably a stretch, the Yankees scored 3 runs in the 4 games they lost.. you aren’t going to win any playoff series doing that.
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Astros
Jan 21, 2020 9:00:14 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 21, 2020 9:00:14 GMT -4
Baseball never had any purity Shoeless joe jackson And with annual salaries now approaching $40 million per year, the incentive is there to cheat and cash out until you get caught. Cheating will continue.
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Astros
Jan 21, 2020 9:13:55 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 21, 2020 9:13:55 GMT -4
I find that any suspension without players being suspended has no teeth. If you think they cheated, suspend them. Hmmm ... you have to prove that the players cheated. If somebody on the bench is banging a garbage can to relay the signs, is that the fault of the guy at bat ? A player doesn't have a choice but to participate if the sound from the bench is there to be heard. The guy that is in charge of the bench is cheating because its up to him to put a stop to it if he thinks its wrong. Now if you are the guy banging the garbage can or wearing a buzzer, that would be a different story. I don't think you can stop cheating. Technology allows it to be easier to do, and so much money is at stake that it is worth the risk. So, lets change the rules to allow electronic communication, and allow the pitcher and catcher to have encrypted electronic communication between them so that the old archaic fingers down is no longer needed. Somebody will try to hack into that, but with today's technology you should be able to see when somebody else is connected in. It would also minimize mound visits.
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Astros
Jan 21, 2020 9:19:00 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by Mika on Jan 21, 2020 9:19:00 GMT -4
I find that any suspension without players being suspended has no teeth. If you think they cheated, suspend them. Hard no from me on that. Thinking someone may have cheated is not valid grounds to suspend. Open up an investigation on those players, but don't just automatically suspend them.
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Astros
Jan 21, 2020 9:34:48 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 21, 2020 9:34:48 GMT -4
I find that any suspension without players being suspended has no teeth. If you think they cheated, suspend them. Hmmm ... you have to prove that the players cheated. If somebody on the bench is banging a garbage can to relay the signs, is that the fault of the guy at bat ? A player doesn't have a choice but to participate if the sound from the bench is there to be heard. The guy that is in charge of the bench is cheating because its up to him to put a stop to it if he thinks its wrong. Now if you are the guy banging the garbage can or wearing a buzzer, that would be a different story. I don't think you can stop cheating. Technology allows it to be easier to do, and so much money is at stake that it is worth the risk. So, lets change the rules to allow electronic communication, and allow the pitcher and catcher to have encrypted electronic communication between them so that the old archaic fingers down is no longer needed. Somebody will try to hack into that, but with today's technology you should be able to see when somebody else is connected in. It would also minimize mound visits. You have the choice to not participate and tell them not to do it when you’re at bat. You can also blow the whistle like Fiers did.
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Astros
Jan 21, 2020 9:58:31 GMT -4
Post by SteveUL on Jan 21, 2020 9:58:31 GMT -4
Hmmm ... you have to prove that the players cheated. If somebody on the bench is banging a garbage can to relay the signs, is that the fault of the guy at bat ? A player doesn't have a choice but to participate if the sound from the bench is there to be heard. The guy that is in charge of the bench is cheating because its up to him to put a stop to it if he thinks its wrong. Now if you are the guy banging the garbage can or wearing a buzzer, that would be a different story. I don't think you can stop cheating. Technology allows it to be easier to do, and so much money is at stake that it is worth the risk. So, lets change the rules to allow electronic communication, and allow the pitcher and catcher to have encrypted electronic communication between them so that the old archaic fingers down is no longer needed. Somebody will try to hack into that, but with today's technology you should be able to see when somebody else is connected in. It would also minimize mound visits. You have the choice to not participate and tell them not to do it when you’re at bat. You can also blow the whistle like Fiers did. But if they still bang the can, even though you said not to, what then ? You can't unhear it. If the 0.222 hitter that said "don't bang the can for me, I don't want to cheat", comes up with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 out in the 8th, they are going to bang that can as loud as they possibly can whether he likes it or not. Fiers ratted out the trickery after the fact ... you can't undo what was already done. Did he give back his playoff bonus and WS ring ? If not then he benefited from cheating and is as guilty as anybody else. At the time of the signalling from the dugout, did he stand up and say this is wrong ? Has Fiers ever put a foreign substance on a ball ? I don't really think you can say that a player cheated because he heard a signal from the dugout. If he has the decoding written on his palm then yes ... he cheated. But just because somebody sends a signal from the dugout doesn't mean the batter is party to the deception. But staying quiet while knowing it is going on is somewhat complicit ... but to speak up is career ending. Its hard to prove what a person has knowledge of.
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Astros
Jan 21, 2020 9:58:58 GMT -4
Post by pinkbeaver on Jan 21, 2020 9:58:58 GMT -4
I just want to reiterate stealing signs or location is not cheating and is not punishable in the game of baseball. Likely 100% of players are being relayed information when they are hitting. using a nickname or number, hearing "come on 7" can mean inside pitch, and therefore when you don't hear it everything else you can sit on outside pitches. This is not against the rules.
The use of technology to give information to hitters is what they made illegal. I'm guessing they were banging a trash can in the playoffs to pass what they were seeing on video do to not being able to relay it out quick enough any other way. that or maybe playoff crowd noise was becoming an issue.
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Astros
Jan 8, 2021 10:44:18 GMT -4
Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 8, 2021 10:44:18 GMT -4
This is not on the same scale as sign stealing but interesting nonetheless...
GERRIT COLE SP, NEW YORK YANKEES
Former Angels clubhouse attendant Brian Harkins has named Gerrit Cole, among others, as players he supplied ball-doctoring substances to prior to his firing last March. Harkins filed suit against the Angels and Major League Baseball last August, alleging that he was unfairly made a scapegoat as the league cracked down on pitchers' use of ball-doctoring substances. Defendants filed a motion to dismiss Harkins' case in November and a January 21 hearing has been scheduled to determine whether it will move forward. In addition to Cole, Harkins has also identified Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer, Corey Kluber, Felix Hernandez and Adam Wainwright, among others, as players he has supplied his substance -- which is a blend of rosin and pine tar -- to. While technically against the rules, pitchers using substances to get a better grip on the ball is generally viewed as common practice and accepted throughout the league. It seems unlikely that any of the aforementioned pitchers will face any kind of discipline.
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