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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 22, 2021 11:39:17 GMT -4
I agree he should be benched for the shift. No excuse for that kind of effort. But the shift comes after Torts went on radio and basically said he has no reason to play him above those who want to be there. They're hurting each other with their stubborness and by speaking out in the media. This is going to hurt the entire team as its a huge distraction only a few games in. At the end of it Columbus won't have either and will still be a clusterfuck nobody wants to stay and play for long term. Jarmo Kekalainen should fire one and trade the other in my opinion. Neither is good for the long term health of that franchise now. Agreed - it is a toxic mess. I think it has reached the point that one or the other has to go - possibly before their next game. Although, food for thought, not sure Kekalainen is free of blame here - he is also developing a bit of a reputation of being an asshole with his players. I don't think Dubois' issue is uniquely with Tortorella, there seem to be multiple issues at play, including with the front office. And he isn't the first one in Columbus ... some will say the players are prima donnas, but I find it unlikely that the players in Columbus are anymore egotistical than in the rest of the league - the difference is how things are being handled and the lack of people skills employed by both the coach and GM. Agreed. They learned nothing from Panarin and Bobrovsky and that entire situation. If NHL players dont want to be in Columbus because of the coach...then that coach better be damned successful. Insert the same statement and swap coach for GM. Torts is living off his 2004 Cup run. But it's 2021 and he hasnt had much success with the current day players who have no time for his style. Like the 80's style doesn't apply now...pre 2005 coaching strategies also are going away when it comes to how to deal with players born around 2000 who grew up in a much different world then the past generations. Just look locally at how its changed. CB teams would hate Halifax teams. NS teams would hate NB teams. Players would hate each other. But in the new world they're all playing each other at 14 but working out and training together at 15/16. The rivals arent made around geographic rivalries. They're made around personal friendships. Look at McDavid and Matthews. Trained together for months in the summer. They want to dominate each other. On the scoreboard. Through skill. Not physical intimidation. It's a different world and those sticking to the past are being left behind.
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Post by bois on Jan 22, 2021 11:46:02 GMT -4
Agreed - it is a toxic mess. I think it has reached the point that one or the other has to go - possibly before their next game. Although, food for thought, not sure Kekalainen is free of blame here - he is also developing a bit of a reputation of being an asshole with his players. I don't think Dubois' issue is uniquely with Tortorella, there seem to be multiple issues at play, including with the front office. And he isn't the first one in Columbus ... some will say the players are prima donnas, but I find it unlikely that the players in Columbus are anymore egotistical than in the rest of the league - the difference is how things are being handled and the lack of people skills employed by both the coach and GM. Agreed. They learned nothing from Panarin and Bobrovsky and that entire situation. If NHL players dont want to be in Columbus because of the coach...then that coach better be damned successful. Insert the same statement and swap coach for GM. Torts is living off his 2004 Cup run. But it's 2021 and he hasnt had much success with the current day players who have no time for his style. Like the 80's style doesn't apply now...pre 2005 coaching strategies also are going away when it comes to how to deal with players born around 2000 who grew up in a much different world then the past generations. Just look locally at how its changed. CB teams would hate Halifax teams. NS teams would hate NB teams. Players would hate each other. But in the new world they're all playing each other at 14 but working out and training together at 15/16. The rivals arent made around geographic rivalries. They're made around personal friendships. Look at McDavid and Matthews. Trained together for months in the summer. They want to dominate each other. On the scoreboard. Through skill. Not physical intimidation. It's a different world and those sticking to the past are being left behind. gotta intervene here.... Columbus made the playoffs last year and really had no business doing so....... Tortorella has to get credit for that as for Panarin and Bobrovsky...... both players played well for Columbus.... especially Panarin.... certainly don't recall any issues with having to bench him and his stats showed he was never half assing it there
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 22, 2021 11:51:36 GMT -4
Agreed. They learned nothing from Panarin and Bobrovsky and that entire situation. If NHL players dont want to be in Columbus because of the coach...then that coach better be damned successful. Insert the same statement and swap coach for GM. Torts is living off his 2004 Cup run. But it's 2021 and he hasnt had much success with the current day players who have no time for his style. Like the 80's style doesn't apply now...pre 2005 coaching strategies also are going away when it comes to how to deal with players born around 2000 who grew up in a much different world then the past generations. Just look locally at how its changed. CB teams would hate Halifax teams. NS teams would hate NB teams. Players would hate each other. But in the new world they're all playing each other at 14 but working out and training together at 15/16. The rivals arent made around geographic rivalries. They're made around personal friendships. Look at McDavid and Matthews. Trained together for months in the summer. They want to dominate each other. On the scoreboard. Through skill. Not physical intimidation. It's a different world and those sticking to the past are being left behind. gotta intervene here.... Columbus made the playoffs last year and really had no business doing so....... Tortorella has to get credit for that as for Panarin and Bobrovsky...... both players played well for Columbus.... especially Panarin.... certainly don't recall any issues with having to bench him and his stats showed he was never half assing it there Yes they get credit for making the playoffs. But since 04 Torts track record is pretty average it seems like. And my point about Panarin and Bob is that they didn't learn that they can't keep players from leaving who want out. You can surround the players in the absolute short term and try 1 hail mary or you can move them and keep trying to build a core and hope your leadership (ownership, GM, and coach) have created an environment the players want to stay in for the long haul. Dubois asked for a trade as a part of signing his 2 year deal. Why both sides wanted it out there...that part confuses me as neither can really gain from it. His value being lowered doesn't help him move. Their competition knowing he wants out doesnt help them negotiate from a position of strength. They've basically had a year to move him. I doubt the trade request was new. Once it went public i'd say it was privately out there for a good period of time. But there was nothing but 4 weeks or so of hockey for them from March 2020 to January 2021. They should have had their shit in order and dealt from a position of strength.
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Post by bois on Jan 22, 2021 11:55:07 GMT -4
Tortorella was nominated for coach of the year last year (deservedly so)... won the jack adams in 2016 with Columbus..... the notion he's somehow living off a stanley cup from 2004 was a Billy esque comment and you deserve to be called on it
the rest of your recent post may or may not be true.... but none of it absolves the ultimate blame here on Dubois... if he doesn't intend to honour his word he should return his paycheque and wait at home for a trade
not like forcing your GM to trade in the middle of a global pandemic is a very fair request really... especially if its true he ultimately wants to go to Canada to play
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 22, 2021 12:03:20 GMT -4
Tortorella was nominated for coach of the year last year (deservedly so)... won the jack adams in 2016 with Columbus..... the notion he's somehow living off a stanley cup from 2004 was a Billy esque comment and you deserve to be called on it the rest of your recent post may or may not be true.... but none of it absolves the ultimate blame here on Dubois... if he doesn't intend to honour his word he should return his paycheque and wait at home for a trade not like forcing your GM to trade in the middle of a global pandemic is a very fair request really... especially if its true he ultimately wants to go to Canada to play Fair enough. I'll concede that it was a stupid thing to say. But I think it's fair to say he's not handling this situation very well and deserves criticism for it along with the player as neither has handled it properly and now its a disaster. I dont think its necessarily about getting to Canada for Dubois. I think its getting away from Torts. Which is why Torts said he wished Dubois would have been more honest with the team about the reasons he wants out as I think Torts thinks Torts is the reason why and doesnt like that he wont come out with that and instead is using the market itself as the reason why he wants a change.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 22, 2021 13:29:09 GMT -4
Tortellini is a good coach but he has a short shelf life, the type of guy that wears out his welcome after a few years, similar to mike Keenan.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 22, 2021 13:36:55 GMT -4
Update : Armia out indefinetly with a Concussion . * Now this guy was Blindsided by Myers , regardless to whether he is suspended for Saturday Night's Game............or Not ......how do you deal with it ? The Players want to be able to Police themselves but yet there are those out there will immediatley say ..."fighting has no place in the Game " ......OK so lets have 6'4" Josh Anderson target Elias Petterson's head ? or Ben Chairot Blindside him in the Corner ? ....nah ......"hit the players in the Pocketbook ? If I am Armia's Teamate , do I care whether Myers who makes Mega Dollars loses money ? Now I know that the NHL is trying to get this type of hit out of the Game ...there just seems to be no real solution .....Multiple Offenders with Multiple Offences writing out Multiple Cheques for Increasing Amounts of Money may be addressing it but not stopping it . So what else is there ? The idea of an eye for an eye as retribution in a sporting event just has to stop. The 1970's and 1980's mentally fucked up an entire generation of hockey fans for making that type of reaction seem normal. You can't help that people will do dirty/borderline dirty hits. That hit was dirty. But what I mean is that with the clearly dirty are the borderline dirty and the reaction to both can't be to have people fight in response. Just suspend Myers for 8 games. Next time they play if Armia wants to fight him to get his retribution the risk is another concussion and him missing even more time. In society if I take a golf club and put the windows out of your car you can absolutely steal my golf club and hit me with it and kill me but we're both in the wrong and you're probably going to jail. In hockey for some reason we want incidents to escalate and everyone to get retribution for even hits that are fair but end up hurting people. Just take the initial hit and penalize it. The idea that you need some sort of revenge is on you. Win the game and move on. There's your revenge. The place fighting has in the game is not close to what the "fighting to respond to questionable play" crowd thinks it does. But the fact there's no fighting, teams dont go find goons and require players who can all actually play, but there is also not near the amount of dirty play that we seen just 10 years ago still falls on deaf ears of people like yourself is just mind blowing to me. Take your 5min pp, win the game 7-3. Move on. At some point that bad hit will be going in the other direction and it will be your player doing it. And the answer has to stop being "well punch them then and try and knock them out!" as if thats solving anything. I agree with you on this, especially in today's game. My main issue with the NHL is they always have goons and guys that played on or over the edge handling discipline...and they ALWAYS give the offender the benefit of the doubt. I know you don't want to take hitting out of the game, and I'm not saying it because it's a Habs player, this hit was bad for multiple reasons. 1-it was late in a one sided game. 2-you have a player coming from the blind side(with the speed of today's game, you can't see everything) 3-the player in question was already in a battle with 2 other players for the puck, quite different from going in the corner and one player goes after you. 4-he got hit in the head, weather it's the primary point of contact or not, he got he full impact of a shoulder to the jaw. Anybody who follows hockey knows that hit had nothing to do with separating the player from the puck.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 22, 2021 14:41:20 GMT -4
I agree with you on this, especially in today's game. My main issue with the NHL is they always have goons and guys that played on or over the edge handling discipline...and they ALWAYS give the offender the benefit of the doubt. I know you don't want to take hitting out of the game, and I'm not saying it because it's a Habs player, this hit was bad for multiple reasons. 1-it was late in a one sided game. 2-you have a player coming from the blind side(with the speed of today's game, you can't see everything) 3-the player in question was already in a battle with 2 other players for the puck, quite different from going in the corner and one player goes after you. 4-he got hit in the head, weather it's the primary point of contact or not, he got he full impact of a shoulder to the jaw. Anybody who follows hockey knows that hit had nothing to do with separating the player from the puck. Yep. And its also going to cause tempers to boil over. Which is why I think 5 minutes is still fair for fighting vs the game misconduct. That hit needs to be penalized hard to take it out of the game. The fight in response isn't stopping the hit from happening again. We have 100 years of proof that it doesn't work that way. But a strong enough penalty will have guys playing differently.
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Post by hal on Jan 22, 2021 21:44:03 GMT -4
No Supplemental Discipline for Myers and he will play Saturday Night .........meanwhile Armia will be in His Hotel Room with his Curtains Drawn Closed ......Define a Strong Penalty ? A guy just got nothing for a Blindside Hit where the Player had no chance to defend himself . I don't think we should lose sight of the Fact that the Majority of Players who play the game want to be able to hand out some justice themselves ......And for the Record , If the Roles were reversed Vancouver should be upset with Montreal .
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 22, 2021 22:14:23 GMT -4
No Supplemental Discipline for Myers and he will play Saturday Night .........meanwhile Armia will be in His Hotel Room with his Curtains Drawn Closed ......Define a Strong Penalty ? A guy just got nothing for a Blindside Hit where the Player had no chance to defend himself . I don't think we should lose sight of the Fact that the Majority of Players who play the game want to be able to hand out some justice themselves ......And for the Record , If the Roles were reversed Vancouver should be upset with Montreal . NHL DPS is a joke and has been for 20 years, they talk about protecting players but always find a way to defend the offender. I find the NFL, which is much more violent sport, is doing a better job protecting it's players.
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Post by Score on Jan 23, 2021 19:03:44 GMT -4
The Habs main issue so far this year is taking too many penalties. Myers should be suspended for multiple games, it was a cheap shot with the game out of reach, he threw a blindside hit to the head on a player that was already in a battle with two others. If the NHL is serious about head shots, he should get minimum 5 games. Vancouver is really missing Markstrom, their defense is terrible and they are giving up a ton of QS, having watched 2 games of Hughes, he is good with the puck but a train wreck without it. Going to be a lot of high scoring games in the Canadian division. Update : Armia out indefinetly with a Concussion. info.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/canadiens-cap-situation-forces-less-than-ideal-changes-to-the-lineup
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Post by hal on Jan 23, 2021 20:26:49 GMT -4
Newcomer Edmundson has just scored major points in the Dressing Room ! He is no Chris Nilan or John Kordic or Pierre Bouchard or Larry Robinson or John Ferguson .....oh sorry .....but he stepped up and the Message was sent .
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 25, 2021 9:01:31 GMT -4
Newcomer Edmundson has just scored major points in the Dressing Room ! He is no Chris Nilan or John Kordic or Pierre Bouchard or Larry Robinson or John Ferguson .....oh sorry .....but he stepped up and the Message was sent . In an ideal world we don't need more violence to avenge past violence and the NHL DPS does it's job.
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Post by bois on Jan 25, 2021 10:13:50 GMT -4
i have no problem with what happened
i think there should have been a suspension but it's not the most vicious hit i've ever seen go uncalled
edmundson did the right thing... nobody else got hurt and the habs won again
i like Perry in the lineup..... i hope he stays in even when Armia returns
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 25, 2021 11:15:06 GMT -4
i have no problem with what happened i think there should have been a suspension but it's not the most vicious hit i've ever seen go uncalled edmundson did the right thing... nobody else got hurt and the habs won again i like Perry in the lineup..... i hope he stays in even when Armia returns Yeah in this case it worked out, but it's also the same logic that led to the Bertuzzi shenanigans in Vancouver. We have enough data on fights causing brain injuries that we don't need more reasons to have fights.
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