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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 5, 2021 14:11:42 GMT -4
Must be a troll article for you to like it.
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Post by hal on Sept 5, 2021 16:19:07 GMT -4
Must be a troll article for you to like it. Bergevin Lovers maybe not so much ...........
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Post by hal on Sept 7, 2021 4:47:58 GMT -4
So the consensus thinking seems to be that the development of Kotkiememi was not handled correctly and now they overpaid for Christian Dvorak . Analysts seem to be unanimous in their thinking that he should have remained in Finland for his 18 year old Season then had at least a year or two in Laval but when they took him at 3 because he was a Center ( a position of need ) it clouded their thinking and thus he was rushed . Now , when you take a guy at 3 , you hope that he can step right in , I get that ........but was he the 3rd BPA ? ......Nope . Now we roll the Clock forward and we arrive to where a guy with 5 goals and Loads of Potential gets 6.1 Million Dollars . Bergevin says they didn't match it because they managed to make the deal for Christian Dvorak ( there's a guy who was always mentioned as one of the better young players in the game ) and according to the Experts overpaid because of time not being on their side .....they once again rushed .......sound familiar ? Oh Yeah ........they plan on trying Jonathan Drouin at Center again ....sounds like Bergevin has it all figured out and Geoff Molson feels so blessed to have the Best GM in all of Professional Sports working for him .
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 7, 2021 7:54:09 GMT -4
So the consensus thinking seems to be that the development of Kotkiememi was not handled correctly and now they overpaid for Christian Dvorak . Analysts seem to be unanimous in their thinking that he should have remained in Finland for his 18 year old Season then had at least a year or two in Laval but when they took him at 3 because he was a Center ( a position of need ) it clouded their thinking and thus he was rushed . Now , when you take a guy at 3 , you hope that he can step right in , I get that ........but was he the 3rd BPA ? ......Nope . Now we roll the Clock forward and we arrive to where a guy with 5 goals and Loads of Potential gets 6.1 Million Dollars . Bergevin says they didn't match it because they managed to make the deal for Christian Dvorak ( there's a guy who was always mentioned as one of the better young players in the game ) and according to the Experts overpaid because of time not being on their side .....they once again rushed .......sound familiar ? Oh Yeah ........they plan on trying Jonathan Drouin at Center again ....sounds like Bergevin has it all figured out and Geoff Molson feels so blessed to have the Best GM in all of Professional Sports working for him . Again, whole lot of trolling. The price paid for Dvorak was very reasonable, he brings a lot of the same qualities as Danault with a few more goals and he is signed at 1M less for the next 4 years. I agree that they rushed JKK, he shopuld not have played any NHL games at 18, most of his issues are not taking the next step offensively, release is slow and he gets knocked on his ass way too often for a guy his size. The habs never said anything about Drouin at C, that's pure fan specualtion.
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Post by bois on Sept 7, 2021 8:09:44 GMT -4
ironically enough JKK's most productive season was the 18 year old season
anyways i like the Dvorak trade personally
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Post by hal on Sept 7, 2021 8:13:32 GMT -4
So the consensus thinking seems to be that the development of Kotkiememi was not handled correctly and now they overpaid for Christian Dvorak . Analysts seem to be unanimous in their thinking that he should have remained in Finland for his 18 year old Season then had at least a year or two in Laval but when they took him at 3 because he was a Center ( a position of need ) it clouded their thinking and thus he was rushed . Now , when you take a guy at 3 , you hope that he can step right in , I get that ........but was he the 3rd BPA ? ......Nope . Now we roll the Clock forward and we arrive to where a guy with 5 goals and Loads of Potential gets 6.1 Million Dollars . Bergevin says they didn't match it because they managed to make the deal for Christian Dvorak ( there's a guy who was always mentioned as one of the better young players in the game ) and according to the Experts overpaid because of time not being on their side .....they once again rushed .......sound familiar ? Oh Yeah ........they plan on trying Jonathan Drouin at Center again ....sounds like Bergevin has it all figured out and Geoff Molson feels so blessed to have the Best GM in all of Professional Sports working for him . Again, whole lot of trolling. The price paid for Dvorak was very reasonable, he brings a lot of the same qualities as Danault with a few more goals and he is signed at 1M less for the next 4 years. I agree that they rushed JKK, he shopuld not have played any NHL games at 18, most of his issues are not taking the next step offensively, release is slow and he gets knocked on his ass way too often for a guy his size. The habs never said anything about Drouin at C, that's pure fan specualtion. .........and again you give Bergevin a Pass ........there's a surprise .
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Post by hal on Sept 7, 2021 8:19:12 GMT -4
ironically enough JKK's most productive season was the 18 year old season anyways i like the Dvorak trade personally OK............Any problems with the Price ? I wonder what Eichel ends up going for ?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 7, 2021 8:26:43 GMT -4
Again, whole lot of trolling. The price paid for Dvorak was very reasonable, he brings a lot of the same qualities as Danault with a few more goals and he is signed at 1M less for the next 4 years. I agree that they rushed JKK, he shopuld not have played any NHL games at 18, most of his issues are not taking the next step offensively, release is slow and he gets knocked on his ass way too often for a guy his size. The habs never said anything about Drouin at C, that's pure fan specualtion. .........and again you give Bergevin a Pass ........there's a surprise . Nobody is giving Bergevin a pass, just don't look at it through your trolling glasses where you only take the negative and exclude all the positive.
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Post by jimmy on Sept 7, 2021 9:53:39 GMT -4
ironically enough JKK's most productive season was the 18 year old season anyways i like the Dvorak trade personally I am OK with getting Dvorak ... a player like him probably costs close to a 1st as a deadline rental ... so to get him for four years of his prime at what appears to be a market value contract for a 1st and 2nd seems pretty reasonable to me. Disappointing that #3 overall pick turns into a (likely) mid to late first rounder and third rounder three years later, but at this point that is crying over spilled milk. It is only three years out, but looking back at this moment, the first round of that draft does not look like a particularly strong crop.
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Post by bois on Sept 7, 2021 10:28:57 GMT -4
ironically enough JKK's most productive season was the 18 year old season anyways i like the Dvorak trade personally OK............Any problems with the Price ? I wonder what Eichel ends up going for ? not really it's the lower of the two 1st rounders and anything outside the 1st is always a crapshoot anyhow adding a 25 year old player who is physically mature and can play defensively with some goal scoring touch (15-20) at a position of need is well worth it in my opinion
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Post by jimmy on Sept 7, 2021 13:31:48 GMT -4
OK............Any problems with the Price ? I wonder what Eichel ends up going for ? not really it's the lower of the two 1st rounders and anything outside the 1st is always a crapshoot anyhow adding a 25 year old player who is physically mature and can play defensively with some goal scoring touch (15-20) at a position of need is well worth it in my opinion If Arizona has no use for players like Dvorak and Garland, it really makes you wonder what the heck they are doing ... good players in their mid-twenties on reasonable contracts for their production should be something every team wants more of, regardless of where you are in your "cycle" ... I can see dealing off aging vets, or pending UFAs, or perhaps cap casualties from time-to-time ... In how many years to they intend to finally be competitive? 5? 10? What exactly are they building towards??? No wonder they have no fans.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 7, 2021 13:36:32 GMT -4
not really it's the lower of the two 1st rounders and anything outside the 1st is always a crapshoot anyhow adding a 25 year old player who is physically mature and can play defensively with some goal scoring touch (15-20) at a position of need is well worth it in my opinion If Arizona has no use for players like Dvorak and Garland, it really makes you wonder what the heck they are doing ... good players in their mid-twenties on reasonable contracts for their production should be something every team wants more of, regardless of where you are in your "cycle" ... I can see dealing off aging vets, or pending UFAs, or perhaps cap casualties from time-to-time ... In how many years to they intend to finally be competitive? 5? 10? What exactly are they building towards??? No wonder they have no fans. Their main problem with a rebuild is they had no 1st picks due to trades and the penalty from the NHL for doing pre draft tests with players illegally.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Sept 7, 2021 13:40:07 GMT -4
So the consensus thinking seems to be that the development of Kotkiememi was not handled correctly and now they overpaid for Christian Dvorak . Analysts seem to be unanimous in their thinking that he should have remained in Finland for his 18 year old Season then had at least a year or two in Laval but when they took him at 3 because he was a Center ( a position of need ) it clouded their thinking and thus he was rushed . Now , when you take a guy at 3 , you hope that he can step right in , I get that ........but was he the 3rd BPA ? ......Nope . Now we roll the Clock forward and we arrive to where a guy with 5 goals and Loads of Potential gets 6.1 Million Dollars . Bergevin says they didn't match it because they managed to make the deal for Christian Dvorak ( there's a guy who was always mentioned as one of the better young players in the game ) and according to the Experts overpaid because of time not being on their side .....they once again rushed .......sound familiar ? Oh Yeah ........they plan on trying Jonathan Drouin at Center again ....sounds like Bergevin has it all figured out and Geoff Molson feels so blessed to have the Best GM in all of Professional Sports working for him . They made a poor decision to pick him based on organizational need. They made a smart decision to not match the offer sheet. Was it smart to let it get that far? If you think he wasn't going to become that top 6 offensive threat...absolutely as the compensation received was fair based on where his potential stands today and that offer wasn't coming in other trades. The Dvorak move was fair value for a more than fair contract. Signed through his prime and if he breaks out more offensively he's on one of the leagues better deals and if not his cap hit makes him easy to keep around as a core piece. Why cant you just give your opinion on it vs the "consensus this" and "experts that"? I hate the Habs and I think they made out fine as I didnt think JKK was ever going to become what they thought on draft day so they cashed out and added a good piece for the same cost. The risk in picking high is striking out but at least you were able to get decent value for the asset even though the development didnt go as you wanted due to all the above. What this does prove is how short sighted fans and analysts are when discussing the NHL draft and comparing needs of an NHL team to what anything but a generational talent can fill is the worst kind of evaluating. If you've got the best 2 centers in the game and the BPA at your draft spot is another center you pick the kid. If you're winger heavy and there is a BPA who plays the wing...you pick the kid. You cant fill in the holes of an NHL team on draft day without 3-5 years of patience. Oh and the other lesson is if you can pick one of Keith Tkachuk's kids you should probably try and do so.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Sept 7, 2021 13:41:07 GMT -4
not really it's the lower of the two 1st rounders and anything outside the 1st is always a crapshoot anyhow adding a 25 year old player who is physically mature and can play defensively with some goal scoring touch (15-20) at a position of need is well worth it in my opinion If Arizona has no use for players like Dvorak and Garland, it really makes you wonder what the heck they are doing ... good players in their mid-twenties on reasonable contracts for their production should be something every team wants more of, regardless of where you are in your "cycle" ... I can see dealing off aging vets, or pending UFAs, or perhaps cap casualties from time-to-time ... In how many years to they intend to finally be competitive? 5? 10? What exactly are they building towards??? No wonder they have no fans. They've become that video game team you pick so you can finish gutting the roster and build through the draft. Someone get that team into Quebec City where it can be fucking appreciated!
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Post by Jack Bauer on Sept 7, 2021 13:42:57 GMT -4
If Arizona has no use for players like Dvorak and Garland, it really makes you wonder what the heck they are doing ... good players in their mid-twenties on reasonable contracts for their production should be something every team wants more of, regardless of where you are in your "cycle" ... I can see dealing off aging vets, or pending UFAs, or perhaps cap casualties from time-to-time ... In how many years to they intend to finally be competitive? 5? 10? What exactly are they building towards??? No wonder they have no fans. Their main problem with a rebuild is they had no 1st picks due to trades and the penalty from the NHL for doing pre draft tests with players illegally. They could have made many decisions differently but when you have no long term vision and ownership is a clusterfuck you're really not planning beyond the season staring you in the face and thats been their issue. They cash out on OEL vs re-signing him and move some of the others and even the penalty they faced wouldnt have killed them. But they're an absolute mess now with no reason for locals to support them.
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