|
Post by hal on Dec 12, 2022 15:33:17 GMT -4
Remember when asked at the Town Hall why he chooses to carry 11 x 19 year olds + the obvious 3 x 20 year olds ? Courtourier our GM said that it was important to insulate Young Players with Veterans who know the League and know how to win . He is the guy who brought them in , so did he not dot all his i's and cross all his t's ? Is it Goyens holding the Vets accountable ( too accountable ? ) Would they rather be elsewhere......ie: Quebec ? Never Easy around here lately ......that I do know .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2022 16:02:29 GMT -4
I am pretty sure when a 20 is asked to come to a team, they tell the GM and/or Coach, exactly what they want to hear. I am coming to help, I understand it's rebuild...etc. Reality is, they just want to play and likely have not other immediate option. Where I see the problem starting is when they don't play the right way or become all about "Ivan", there is zero accountability. Take a look at Gravel, since he went to CHI is minutes are steadily dropping, I can't speak for what's happening, but he's not getting rewarded for being a 20, he is likely being held accountable as a player.
The only thing a coach has on a player is ice time...he owns it and every player wants it. How you dish it out is direct reflection of the product we see on the ice. It's not rocket appliances as the Ricky would say. It you want players to play the right way, regardless of their age.
|
|
|
Post by hal on Dec 12, 2022 16:15:29 GMT -4
Goyens said way back when at The Town Hall that he didn't care if you were a 1st Round Pick , a 13th Round Pick a Free Agent or a Star Player acquired by trade ...."your work ethic will determine your ice time" . Taking him as a "Man of his Word" ....then "all the players" knew what was expected from Day 1 . So has Reality set in for The Leadership Group and he has called them out Publicly ? Two possible responses ...Complain and want out .....or Keep your mouth shut and let your effort on the ice do the talking for you . Sounds like at least someone went with Option A .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2022 18:08:09 GMT -4
It's hard stand 100% true to your word when winning is so important. Decisions are made in the heat of the moment that the coach feels gives his/her team the best chance of the winning. It's thru reflection that you start seeing the fruits of your labor and maybe now the rubber is hitting the road so to speak when it comes to work ethic and accountability.
|
|
|
Post by sherwood1020 on Dec 13, 2022 0:21:30 GMT -4
Losing is hard, it's takes it toll, but stick to the plan. It will be too late when your young prospects are all asking for trades because the development model was one that supported over age selfishness and personal agendas. The guy I feel bad for in all of this Langlois, thru all this BS, he is still doing his best to play the right way, he is struggling and I am not sure if it's a confidence thing or a nagging injury or what, but he is not quite himself. More than likely Langlois is one of the players being called out by Goyens for going through the motions waiting on a trade call.
|
|
|
Post by scotiahockey on Dec 13, 2022 0:28:58 GMT -4
Losing is hard, it's takes it toll, but stick to the plan. It will be too late when your young prospects are all asking for trades because the development model was one that supported over age selfishness and personal agendas. The guy I feel bad for in all of this Langlois, thru all this BS, he is still doing his best to play the right way, he is struggling and I am not sure if it's a confidence thing or a nagging injury or what, but he is not quite himself. More than likely Langlois is one of the players being called out by Goyens for going through the motions waiting on a trade call. Honestly this is what I thought too.. but I have no idea what people see say to day from him. It’d be easy to understand how Langlois would get there if he is one of the guys being called out, 4th year in the Q, never really looking at a contender in your time in the league, you haven’t had the season you probably expected or hoped after going in the 3rd round and it’d be easy to be frustrated and discouraged.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 8:20:05 GMT -4
I was under the impression that Langlois was quite clear to management that he does not want to be traded. Now that is likely the canned answer from any player, specifically your Captain being a team player. In the best interest of the organization he needs to be moved. His value has dropped, but I still feel there is a some good potential there and he could help a contender push forward. I see a great fit in Victo for him, close to home, could get 1.5 years there and finish out his Q career on a high.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 13, 2022 8:36:55 GMT -4
I said this at the beginning of the year and I will say it again, 20's on a rebuilding team are so key to the chemistry and balance, it's almost more important then who's behind the bench. We are so Fu*CK#D for the rest of the season, it's not even funny. The fear of losing is sooo, strong that the panic is over ruling any logic in coaching, development or a proper re-build. Let's get Ivan 35 mins a game..he needs more time on the PP and PK and centering 2 lines a night. That's the way you develop for next year and beyond...oh wait...Ivan will be playing in some beer league next season and the young guys who are still here will left holding the ball. I dont think its a fear of losing at all causing a coach to play his vets. The facts are that as much as a rebuild around high picks can be exciting you still need vets to play ahead of them while they learn and grow at 16 and 17. I'd rather ride the hell out of an overager like Ivan vs overplay a Squires and see his development stagnate which absolutely can happen with youth if you play them too much. The issue with our overage situation goes back to past terrible decisions over the last 4-5 years. There was literally nobody in the organization worthy of being brought back as a 20 so we brought back a European and traded for 2. When a rebuilding team has to trade for leadership its probably not going to lose the results. Especially a market like this one. But lets not pretend that if Ivan wasn't here that it just wouldn't be another 20 brought in to do the same thing. Thats the point of having those guys in a rebuild. Your youth would be mentally and physically done by this point of a season without those vets. Just look at what some did as a midget schedule last year to what they're doing now....to expect rookies to play 68 games in all situations isnt at all realistic.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 13, 2022 8:40:47 GMT -4
I was under the impression that Langlois was quite clear to management that he does not want to be traded. Now that is likely the canned answer from any player, specifically your Captain being a team player. In the best interest of the organization he needs to be moved. His value has dropped, but I still feel there is a some good potential there and he could help a contender push forward. I see a great fit in Victo for him, close to home, could get 1.5 years there and finish out his Q career on a high. Why would Langlois not want a trade? I'd be concerned about that as a GM. Why does my star 19 who has never really played a meaningful game here not want a chance to win? I've seen nothing in print to back up that statement. He's not from here. Has no ties to here. Zero positive history here. I highly doubt he's come out and said he wants no part of playing on a contender.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 13, 2022 8:47:28 GMT -4
Remember when asked at the Town Hall why he chooses to carry 11 x 19 year olds + the obvious 3 x 20 year olds ? Courtourier our GM said that it was important to insulate Young Players with Veterans who know the League and know how to win . He is the guy who brought them in , so did he not dot all his i's and cross all his t's ? Is it Goyens holding the Vets accountable ( too accountable ? ) Would they rather be elsewhere......ie: Quebec ? Never Easy around here lately ......that I do know . He acquired 19 and 20yr olds as a non-contending bottom feeding team. I'm sure he did research but its not like he was going after the best players available. He was going after the best he could afford and who would report here. How accountable can a 19yr old be that knows he's probably only here for 3 months if he does well? Sometimes people seem to forget where this team started and how bad last season was. The complete lack of 18 and 19yr olds was a huge reason for that. Its no shock that now the 19's and 20's are weak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 9:11:53 GMT -4
A 19 year old needs to be held to the same standard as every other player on the roster. It's the Coaches #1 job to find a way to make every player better, whether it's for 3 months or 3 years. Words mean nothing without actions and consequences. That's the point I have been trying to make, once the focus shifts and an attempt to win a hockey game trumps the culture you are trying to instill, you lose 100% of the time. If the standards are different for age or skill set, good luck moving forward.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 13, 2022 9:24:54 GMT -4
A 19 year old needs to be held to the same standard as every other player on the roster. It's the Coaches #1 job to find a way to make every player better, whether it's for 3 months or 3 years. Words mean nothing without actions and consequences. That's the point I have been trying to make, once the focus shifts and an attempt to win a hockey game trumps the culture you are trying to instill, you lose 100% of the time. If the standards are different for age or skill set, good luck moving forward. Its the coaches job to develop players over 3 months AND 3 years though. This was never a contending team. This was never a "develop for 3 months" type of team. This was a bridge year where we hope to see development and no major injuries and come out of it with a solid core of kids we're bringing along for 3-4 years. How you manage ice time in the first 3 months of a 4 year plan can absolutely derail your plan if you're not careful. But you also can't just healthy scratch the mediocre vets you acquired. You acquired them knowing what they were. The standards are always different among age groups in this league. Nobody expects from a 16yr old what they do from an overager whether the kid is 1st overall or the overager cost a 5th rounder. In what sport are standards not higher on veterans? Especially in a league with age and size differences like this one. We really going to say we expect Squires to not be a star at 19? Ruining him at 17 would be a great way to avoid that though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 12:21:12 GMT -4
As a coach, I never use standards and expectations can not be used inter-changeably. I agree there are different expectations on vets, but all players should be held to the same standard.
Standards are objective, they are the baseline, work ethic, compete , play a certain way, every player should be held to the same standards within an organization.
I expect vets to bring experience, to understand the league, the pace, the grind, but I don't give them a free pass when they shortcut the message.
Mediocre vets may lower the expectations you have on them, but they need to be held to the same standard.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 13, 2022 12:32:15 GMT -4
As a coach, I never use standards and expectations can not be used inter-changeably. I agree there are different expectations on vets, but all players should be held to the same standard. Standards are objective, they are the baseline, work ethic, compete , play a certain way, every player should be held to the same standards within an organization. I expect vets to bring experience, to understand the league, the pace, the grind, but I don't give them a free pass when they shortcut the message. Mediocre vets may lower the expectations you have on them, but they need to be held to the same standard. The problem with hockey is the visual to 1 person isn't necessarily seen the same way by someone else. What I mean by that is to a fan the young guy with a motor that never stops looks to be so hard working yet you throw a more talented player out there and it can visually look lazy compared to the other player yet at the end of a game, week, month the stats tell you the guy looking lazy is your top scorer. Part of being a vet in a league like this is knowing when you need to turn that effort into a higher gear and when you can let off a bit. It cant be this all out reckless abandon when the grind if 68 games over 6 months on a bus around Eastern Canada. Our guys have to play smart above all else...but you need to develop that instinct as a group and you have no time to change the habits of vets when you're importing so many. We used to draft and develop so that even our crap teams had solid leadership or the guys we acquired had a ton of respect around the league. We can't necessarily say that about this group. We havent been able to say it for over a decade now. Its tough to sell a message to 23 guys when only 8-10 view themselves as a part of the long term. We're probably a good 6 months away from that not being the case so some are going to be in for a tough next few months here as it appears we've already forgot how bad last season was and that this team likely still finishes low in the standings after the good vets we do have end up elsewhere.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 12:45:58 GMT -4
You're grasping JB. I don't like that side of you.
|
|