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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 13, 2022 12:57:40 GMT -4
You're grasping JB. I don't like that side of you. At which parts am I grasping? The lack of drafting and developing leaving no home grown leaders part? Or the "rent-a-veteran" model to bridge you to a core of 16's and 17's being a bad idea for a bottom of the league team expecting a culture change part? FYI there was no winning no matter which route they took. It was either cheap vets to bridge for a year or let the kids fend for themselves. Both routes were going to result in a bottom 5 year because of how we drafted and traded 3-4-5 years ago. I don't think any of that is grasping. Its just calling it for how it is.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 13, 2022 13:06:54 GMT -4
I'll also challenge anyone to watch kids like Fullerton and Henderson for effort alone and then watch Ivan...the leading scorer.
At times Ivan looks like he's on auto pilot. Those kids never stop in terms of effort. But the reality is the veteran should know when he can turn it up and down so the coach rides that experience.
My point being that just because the kids visually work harder doesn't mean they're playing smarter or developing the other tools they need to be key players at 18, 19 and 20. Part of their development is having players like Ivan ahead of them to try and lead the way.
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Post by classiccaper on Dec 13, 2022 16:36:06 GMT -4
For all the armchair gm's like myself, im curious what everyone thinks potential value is for some of the main trade candidates.
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Post by jordo999 on Dec 13, 2022 16:44:25 GMT -4
For all the armchair gm's like myself, im curious what everyone thinks potential value is for some of the main trade candidates. Langlois is definitely the biggest trade chip. I can see 3 assets for him with one of them at least being a 1st or high prospect.
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Post by classiccaper on Dec 13, 2022 17:07:48 GMT -4
For all the armchair gm's like myself, im curious what everyone thinks potential value is for some of the main trade candidates. Langlois is definitely the biggest trade chip. I can see 3 assets for him with one of them at least being a 1st or high prospect. i like it. Last year i think i would have agreed but this year id be leaning towards the 1st and prospect. Eagles way of doing things however is giving to get when it comes to picks so i would think we would give langlois and 2nd for 1st, 3rd and prospect
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Post by eagleeye on Dec 13, 2022 19:02:07 GMT -4
as for hard working players Carter McCluskey is one of them and has only one goal and one assist and i can understand why the coach like him .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 11:09:56 GMT -4
I'll also challenge anyone to watch kids like Fullerton and Henderson for effort alone and then watch Ivan...the leading scorer. At times Ivan looks like he's on auto pilot. Those kids never stop in terms of effort. But the reality is the veteran should know when he can turn it up and down so the coach rides that experience. My point being that just because the kids visually work harder doesn't mean they're playing smarter or developing the other tools they need to be key players at 18, 19 and 20. Part of their development is having players like Ivan ahead of them to try and lead the way. Auto pilot is one way to describe Ivan Ivan I guess, lol. The problem is that his Turn Up - Turn down buttons are 100% related to the puck being on his stick. I do hear what you are saying about guys like Fullerton, part of that extended effort is related to trying to stay in the line-up each night.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 14, 2022 11:13:01 GMT -4
I'll also challenge anyone to watch kids like Fullerton and Henderson for effort alone and then watch Ivan...the leading scorer. At times Ivan looks like he's on auto pilot. Those kids never stop in terms of effort. But the reality is the veteran should know when he can turn it up and down so the coach rides that experience. My point being that just because the kids visually work harder doesn't mean they're playing smarter or developing the other tools they need to be key players at 18, 19 and 20. Part of their development is having players like Ivan ahead of them to try and lead the way. Auto pilot is one way to describe Ivan Ivan I guess, lol. The problem is that his Turn Up - Turn down buttons are 100% related to the puck being on his stick. I do hear what you are saying about guys like Fullerton, part of that extended effort is related to trying to stay in the line-up each night. I agree. But you also agree it seems like you can't just dress only Fullerton's and let them work super hard and lose 6-0 every night. The Ivan's you evaluate based on production along with their effort. But like I said in the post you seem to think I was grasping about....at the end of a day/week/month you do have to take stats into account at some point when evaluating.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 11:23:14 GMT -4
Langlois is definitely the biggest trade chip. I can see 3 assets for him with one of them at least being a 1st or high prospect. i like it. Last year i think i would have agreed but this year id be leaning towards the 1st and prospect. Eagles way of doing things however is giving to get when it comes to picks so i would think we would give langlois and 2nd for 1st, 3rd and prospect Honestly, in order to get the return that Cape needs, I think it has to be Langlois + pick or picks for a real high end prospect. I seen some chatter on here about the Ramparts/Langlois and the names Murray or Wener were mentioned. I would be shocked if Sly is calling Roy about Wener, not a Sly type player. As for Murray, Cape has Waugh, Desjardins, Carbonneau so unless Murray is sure fire top 4 D man, I don't see the value. The only 2 players I would be interested in are Rodzon and the G- Miller and both guys are likely not on the table.
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Post by hal on Dec 14, 2022 11:50:32 GMT -4
i like it. Last year i think i would have agreed but this year id be leaning towards the 1st and prospect. Eagles way of doing things however is giving to get when it comes to picks so i would think we would give langlois and 2nd for 1st, 3rd and prospect Honestly, in order to get the return that Cape needs, I think it has to be Langlois + pick or picks for a real high end prospect. I seen some chatter on here about the Ramparts/Langlois and the names Murray or Wener were mentioned. I would be shocked if Sly is calling Roy about Wener, not a Sly type player. As for Murray, Cape has Waugh, Desjardins, Carbonneau so unless Murray is sure fire top 4 D man, I don't see the value. The only 2 players I would be interested in are Rodzon and the G- Miller and both guys are likely not on the table. If this is Patrick Roy's Last Dance then I would say anybody and everybody is on the Table . His Team is the Vegas Favourite to win the Q and go on to the Memorial Cup so he may be a little looser with his Trump Cards .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 12:12:56 GMT -4
Very true Hal. The Bergeron deal may still happen as well, so there on-going talks already happening with Sly and Roy.
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Post by JEagle on Dec 14, 2022 16:52:08 GMT -4
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Post by jordo999 on Dec 14, 2022 17:44:08 GMT -4
i like it. Last year i think i would have agreed but this year id be leaning towards the 1st and prospect. Eagles way of doing things however is giving to get when it comes to picks so i would think we would give langlois and 2nd for 1st, 3rd and prospect Honestly, in order to get the return that Cape needs, I think it has to be Langlois + pick or picks for a real high end prospect. I seen some chatter on here about the Ramparts/Langlois and the names Murray or Wener were mentioned. I would be shocked if Sly is calling Roy about Wener, not a Sly type player. As for Murray, Cape has Waugh, Desjardins, Carbonneau so unless Murray is sure fire top 4 D man, I don't see the value. The only 2 players I would be interested in are Rodzon and the G- Miller and both guys are likely not on the table. That's fair, but I'm sure CB will get the needed value from any of the contenders.
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Post by hal on Dec 15, 2022 8:57:46 GMT -4
To be very Honest I am actually happy that we have a Break from going to the Rink . The Win was nice last night but the talk around C200 is either "this guy wants out" ...."that guy wants out"....or...." I don't care what they do" and it wears you down . It's been different this Year I found and I can't quite put my finger on it , which puzzles / concerns me . I don't have any insight into who wants out ( I would have been all other that in years gone by ) and I still care what happens but in complete disclosure , not as much as other years and that is what concerns me . I just hope that Sly does something that "shocks" me back into being a real Die Hard Fan (again) and breaks up this cloud hanging over this Team . Any Trade of a 19 or 20 I welcome in hopes that it brings in a Young Prospect that gives some positive vibe or a 1st Round Pick that gives you a Positive Vibe for Next Year . Maybe it's just me or is anybody here feeling this way ?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Dec 15, 2022 10:24:50 GMT -4
To be very Honest I am actually happy that we have a Break from going to the Rink . The Win was nice last night but the talk around C200 is either "this guy wants out" ...."that guy wants out"....or...." I don't care what they do" and it wears you down . It's been different this Year I found and I can't quite put my finger on it , which puzzles / concerns me . I don't have any insight into who wants out ( I would have been all other that in years gone by ) and I still care what happens but in complete disclosure , not as much as other years and that is what concerns me . I just hope that Sly does something that "shocks" me back into being a real Die Hard Fan (again) and breaks up this cloud hanging over this Team . Any Trade of a 19 or 20 I welcome in hopes that it brings in a Young Prospect that gives some positive vibe or a 1st Round Pick that gives you a Positive Vibe for Next Year . Maybe it's just me or is anybody here feeling this way ? Does adding more 1st round picks change a vibe? I think the problem is that we sunk so low last year that the climb back up is steep. But we already have multiple picks in the top 2 rounds of the next couple of drafts so its not like we have no picks. Its the huge gap between our core 16/17yr olds kids and the group of veteran 19/20yr olds in terms of talent. But that doesn't change overnight. This was always the issue in a long rebuild in this market and letting the people who created the mess stay in place to dictate the culture change. How much longer is this fan base expected to watch a Gerard Shaw led organization lose and finish at the bottom? We're supposed to believe the coaches were problems. The GM was a problem. Scouts were a problem. Assistants NOT named Hanna were problems. But the President overseeing it all isnt at all a problem. Its beyond insulting to the fans is the issue and why so many have just tuned them out. You admit you're not all that into this now, hal. But who actually could be? Especially if you've been even a semi-regular over the 25+ years here. I can't support this group while its still a complete clusterfuck on the ice even if I do think there's potential in the kids because that potential is still at least 12 months from providing $1 worth of entertainment for what I want to see from my home town team on a regular basis and at over $20 per ticket and a social/family circle thats also completely tuned them out its rather easy to tune out all the losing and constant negativity around who wants out and why while the rotten apple at the top of the tree never appears in jeopardy of being held accountable for absolutely any of the poor decisions he's made.
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