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Post by Reesor on Feb 1, 2023 14:27:37 GMT -4
Euros typically have cheaper costs than 20’s do. You just saw the team address their needs via trade by focusing on overagers reducing costs. If they did the same next year with euros I wouldn’t be surprised. I would. They can easily just pick one that’s a little older like they did with Moravec. Last time they traded for a euro it blew up in their face. The Safin situation is a one-off and not a typical danger when making deals. Even if a player had an injury issue, I doubt Cam Russell makes any deals for anyone with injury history unless he's done his due-diligence. Murph's right in that import players typically cost less than average Canadian players because of the decreased demand. There's no need to rush any trades until the results of the Import Draft are known. But trading for an import player is typically a low-cost way to really improve your team, and it's definitely on the table next year for Halifax.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Feb 1, 2023 15:39:09 GMT -4
I would. They can easily just pick one that’s a little older like they did with Moravec. Last time they traded for a euro it blew up in their face. The Safin situation is a one-off and not a typical danger when making deals. Even if a player had an injury issue, I doubt Cam Russell makes any deals for anyone with injury history unless he's done his due-diligence. Murph's right in that import players typically cost less than average Canadian players because of the decreased demand. There's no need to rush any trades until the results of the Import Draft are known. But trading for an import player is typically a low-cost way to really improve your team, and it's definitely on the table next year for Halifax. With Safin one of the big factors was about his injury and who knew it was as bad as it was and when. I think the Edmonton Oilers were perhaps the ones who had him evaluated and set the course and weren't really disclosing what needed to be known to Halifax. His injury happened at AHL Bakersfield and he was in the Oilers camp and was traded in Q when he was there. And I do not think all sides in the deal were aware of his real situation. SJ maybe should have known but I think they just wanted to get rid of an asset while they could and get something for him. Doesn't really matter he was a Euro. You only make that deal if you already have an opening on the team. Loshko - isn't going anywhere until December. Chicoutimi is not a doormat team. They may want to see where they really are next fall before pulling cord on that move. If they are competitive they may keep him.
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Post by scotiahockey on Feb 1, 2023 20:52:04 GMT -4
I'd very surprised if Whynot made the jump to the AHL. He will more than likely be back as a 20 next season. You shouldn’t. They have 3 guys that are mid to late 20s that are coming off contracts from the AHL team. They only Have 3 defencemen prospects and Whynot is the best one. He’s probably getting a contract. I’m counting 5 defence under contract next season who are probably on their AHL team, Meloche who is an RFA that they probably qualify to keep his rights since he has NHL experience. So there’s 6 guys, the space is getting taken up on their back end. Unless they project some guys as NHLers next season. I won’t be surprised if he gets a contract but I’m not convinced he does either. The development hasn’t been there in the last 1.5 years, you usually don’t offer contracts to guys who look like they’ve stagnated in their development coming out of junior. After his draft year, I’d have thought there’s no chance he’s back but I really think he’s playing for a contract down the stretch and into the playoffs.
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Post by sliderz on Feb 2, 2023 13:23:16 GMT -4
1st Mooseheads sellout game coming up on Sunday in a long, long time by the looks of things. Only approximately 100 tickets left.
I think the last was the Memorial Cup host season.
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Post by trueblue on Feb 2, 2023 14:53:24 GMT -4
No, I completely get where you're coming from. I just think Loshko is a proven performer in this league, stuck on rebuilding team, and could be a primary target if Cam chooses to go that direction. And that direction would be in the best case scenario where Whynot, Biasca, and Fournier are all available to us to start the year. So you do see how easy it is to argue what you just said right? It’s just as easy to draft a new euro (which they will do) than go trade for one. Also you want them to be a winning team and you think Fournier is a 20yr old for a winning team? Fournier is the same as Davis, he’s ok but a waste of a 20yo spot on a Q team. Sure, it's easy to draft a new euro but I see it as more of a crapshoot (especially in the slots where we will be picking). You never really know how they're going to adjust - Moravec has been awesome this year... but does having a Barinka or Peeters type player really help this team next year? For another comparison, Marcel and Marchon were two 19YO forwards taken by contending teams in the past draft, around the range the Moose will be picking. I'm not convinced the euro draft will be the answer. As for Fournier, I still see some upside there. My eye test tells me he's a great skater and plays with pace - he just hasn't found his scoring touch in limited icetime playing with young linemates. I don't think it's an absolute disaster if you start the year with him in the lineup, and (at this point) he's not blocking any up and comers (the Davis situation was completely different... we essentially didn't have space on the roster for Schultz/Martin if we kept him around). I'm fine with giving him the first half to see if he steps up. If he surprises, we could save ourselves some of those all important trade assets.
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Post by Penguins23® on Feb 2, 2023 15:33:28 GMT -4
1st Mooseheads sellout game coming up on Sunday in a long, long time by the looks of things. Only approximately 100 tickets left. I think the last was the Memorial Cup host season. Just came here to post this. What lead to this? Seems random.
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Post by Reesor on Feb 2, 2023 15:46:13 GMT -4
1st Mooseheads sellout game coming up on Sunday in a long, long time by the looks of things. Only approximately 100 tickets left. I think the last was the Memorial Cup host season. Tickets will open up either tomorrow or Saturday. But yah should be close to a sellout. Sunday is Scouts Canada / Girl Guides day. I think it's close to 1500 members will be there. There has been a lot of buzz surrounding the team lately and it's starting to show in some good attendances.
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Post by statsman18 on Feb 3, 2023 5:43:27 GMT -4
So you do see how easy it is to argue what you just said right? It’s just as easy to draft a new euro (which they will do) than go trade for one. Also you want them to be a winning team and you think Fournier is a 20yr old for a winning team? Fournier is the same as Davis, he’s ok but a waste of a 20yo spot on a Q team. Sure, it's easy to draft a new euro but I see it as more of a crapshoot (especially in the slots where we will be picking). You never really know how they're going to adjust - Moravec has been awesome this year... but does having a Barinka or Peeters type player really help this team next year? For another comparison, Marcel and Marchon were two 19YO forwards taken by contending teams in the past draft, around the range the Moose will be picking. I'm not convinced the euro draft will be the answer. As for Fournier, I still see some upside there. My eye test tells me he's a great skater and plays with pace - he just hasn't found his scoring touch in limited icetime playing with young linemates. I don't think it's an absolute disaster if you start the year with him in the lineup, and (at this point) he's not blocking any up and comers (the Davis situation was completely different... we essentially didn't have space on the roster for Schultz/Martin if we kept him around). I'm fine with giving him the first half to see if he steps up. If he surprises, we could save ourselves some of those all important trade assets. With everyone saying Euro are cheaper to trade for I had to go back and look. That’s flat out not the case. I’ll start with Barbenec trade looks okay right now and maybe it could be considered cheap 5 mid picks and a throw away euro player. But let’s be honest that trade will be finished at the draft. I’ll agree that the Satny trade was cheap but that was a log jam for PEI in net and Lapenna wasn’t going to be the one giving away on the cheap. Last year SJ gave 2 2nds and a 3rd for Ansons who seem like a perfect comparable to Loshko. That isn’t cheap. I can keep going because I dug for a few years back but I’m pretty sure it falls on deaf ears. Back to Loshko. He was drafted at 46, which will be roughly where Halifax will be picking. Ansons who like I said is a good comparable in value to Loshko was picked in the 2nd round in the 70’s. If they do their homework it’s not a crapshoot. And sure you can bring up Peeters again but when he got here he looked good. He feel of the map his 3rd year. That’s not usual. And if you want to talk about Barinka I’m pretty sure he was their 5 or 6th option when he was picked. Your Fournier take. Man I think you need to get your eyes checked. Your eye test that he’s a good skater is just not true. He’s slow and is playing on the 4th line for a reason. The only thing that’s a plus is his shot. He doesn’t get the chance to use it because he’s slow and can’t get open ice to use it. That’s not the player you keep as a 20yo on a winning team.
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Post by trueblue on Feb 3, 2023 10:37:48 GMT -4
Your Fournier take. Man I think you need to get your eyes checked. Your eye test that he’s a good skater is just not true. He’s slow and is playing on the 4th line for a reason. The only thing that’s a plus is his shot. He doesn’t get the chance to use it because he’s slow and can’t get open ice to use it. That’s not the player you keep as a 20yo on a winning team. Clearly we're seeing different symptoms to Fournier's offensive problems, and different levels of optimism about his potential. No question he's been underwhelming. His foot speed, agility, balance, and overall technical skating ability truly and honestly look good to me from where I sit in section 9. What I bolded we can agree on. He can't get open ice - but I don't think it's because he's physically slow. I think he's slow between the ears in adjusting to the Q - hasn't figured out how to get to the quiet spots in the offensive zone. Hasn't learned the patterns of play off the rush or in the cycle. Hasn't been able to gel with any of his linemates. If we are a true contender next year you are absolutely right - the current version of Fournier is not good enough. But is it completely out of the question for him to improve with a bit more icetime higher in the lineup? Could he play the Huard role on next year's team in the first half? It sounds like your answer is no regardless, but I'd be willing to give him a shot since he's already here. Agree to disagree?
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Post by Joe Burrow on Feb 3, 2023 10:43:22 GMT -4
I can see Fournier as a 20 goal scorer next year since he’d have a year under his belt adjusting to the league
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Post by trueblue on Feb 3, 2023 10:54:53 GMT -4
Switching gears a little from the Fournier/Import discourse... next year is a really big year for Logan Crosby. I don't want to go as far as saying it's make or break for him, but he really needs to step up for his sake (his draft year) and ours (we need top 6 forwards).
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 3, 2023 11:00:03 GMT -4
With everyone saying Euro are cheaper to trade for I had to go back and look. That’s flat out not the case. I’ll start with Barbenec trade looks okay right now and maybe it could be considered cheap 5 mid picks and a throw away euro player. But let’s be honest that trade will be finished at the draft. Everyone says it because they're taking years and decades of trades into account. You can't look at 1 deal and add a completely speculative comment to it and think it proves any point in terms of year over year player values in trades. You can literally pick any 1 trade to prove some random point based on speculative futures that is completely based on rumor and assumption. Could be more to it. Could be nothing. Do we actually know? If not....why just use that 1 deal? Why not look back 2, 5, 7, 10 years at major deals involving imports? Not every single trade in this league has futures attached yet every time someone is traded for less than people think they should there's months of endless speculation on futures and most of the time there's not even anything more to it. What do we see...30% of deals have more to them? Yet you'd think it's 80% based on the endless speculation people put around those deals.
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Post by Reesor on Feb 3, 2023 11:07:44 GMT -4
Switching gears a little from the Fournier/Import discourse... next year is a really big year for Logan Crosby. I don't want to go as far as saying it's make or break for him, but he really needs to step up for his sake (his draft year) and ours (we need top 6 forwards). He's getting Barrett Dachyshyn vibes right now. Good in preseason but just can't quite take the next step. He's playing with very good line mates as well. It's not like he hasn't been given the opportunity. Could still be a late bloomer. But Halifax traded up to get him, and out of 10 forwards picked in the next round behind him, only two have worse points per game averages, one of them being Vincent Gauthier. Etienne Morin and Cam Squires were picked right after him. Can't hit on every pick, but when you trade assets to move up and grab someone, you kinda hope they end up at least average in the area they were picked in. I remember the conversation during the draft video between Cam Russell and Allie MacDonald where Cam said something like "you better be right". Not willing to say this pick isn't a good one just yet, but I'm sure Allie is starting to wonder.
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Post by bois on Feb 3, 2023 11:07:59 GMT -4
in defense of statsman here
Hulton has stated there is more to the trades for Lapenna and Brabanec
he specifically said in terms of draft pick capital
so i'm assuming both Sherbrooke and Gatineau have other deals to finalize at the draft and then the lower picks will be converted to higher ones
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 3, 2023 14:15:03 GMT -4
in defense of statsman here Hulton has stated there is more to the trades for Lapenna and Brabanec he specifically said in terms of draft pick capital so i'm assuming both Sherbrooke and Gatineau have other deals to finalize at the draft and then the lower picks will be converted to higher ones And i'm sure there is more. What more is....who knows. But thats no way to prove a statement about what imports in general are worth year over year vs domestic players. If Charlottetown gets nothing else in that deal OR if they get 2 1st rounders it doesn't change all the other deals over time that go into that belief people have that generally a great import costs a bit less then a great domestic player.
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