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Post by shsfan on Mar 16, 2023 22:04:10 GMT -4
Not sure how I’m feeling about this but it was reported yesterday that the Q is going to ban Fighting next season.
Still not sure how I’m feeling about that. Feel like fighting still has a place in hockey for sure. Feel like this is gonna open the door for more players to take runs at goalies, or skilled players, or rookies without any consequences. Part of the unwritten code in hockey is that if something happens to a teammate, you stick up for them.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 16, 2023 22:18:35 GMT -4
Who is suddenly going to start running goalies or taking out skilled players?
Why can none of you who take this stance answer to why there were like 100x the terrible incidents and players being ran when there were actually goons that were supposed to prevent it?
Now there's none of that stuff. And there's already no goons. Its not 2002 and suddenly every team needs to replace 3 guys. There haven't been real goons for a long time...and when they existed....they didn't prevent a thing.
They provided entertainment. They provided a side show when the home team was losing 4-0. They didn't stop violence towards anyone. They were usually the ones doing it. How can anyone even try arguing otherwise at this point? The last decade literally proves that point. The fact this rule change really changes very little in how the current game is being played just makes me wonder if some people have even watched hockey over the last 10 years.
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Post by hal on Mar 17, 2023 4:41:56 GMT -4
The Quebec Owners took a Bribe from the Government during the Pandemic in exchange for getting rid of Fighting . Now the New Q Commissioner is jumping in bed with the Politicians in Quebec and even Ottawa . The Referees have even come out saying that "Fighting still has a Place in the Game"........"you want these Guys to Police the Game properly" ? Even the French Media is saying that there is next to nil fighting in the League but now you open up the League to all kinds of potential other Negative stuff . www.sportsnet.ca/juniors/video/what-are-the-reasons-behind-the-qmjhl-moving-to-ban-fighting-instant-analysis/
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Post by Briwhel on Mar 17, 2023 5:28:41 GMT -4
The Quebec Owners took a Bribe from the Government during the Pandemic in exchange for getting rid of Fighting . Now the New Q Commissioner is jumping in bed with the Politicians in Quebec and even Ottawa . The Referees have even come out saying that "Fighting still has a Place in the Game"........"you want these Guys to Police the Game properly" ? Even the French Media is saying that there is next to nil fighting in the League but now you open up the League to all kinds of potential other Negative stuff . www.sportsnet.ca/juniors/video/what-are-the-reasons-behind-the-qmjhl-moving-to-ban-fighting-instant-analysis/Your statement is false. Courteau's last act was to push the anti-fighting rule and Cecchini just rubber stamped it. They aren't getting into bed with the Quebec government. They are avoiding the Quebec government enacting special laws that would force any players caught fighting to be arrested. It's only a matter of time before these rules are national. I'm expecting a 5 and a game for a fight and possibly changing the suspension threshold from 3 codes to 2.
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Post by Mika on Mar 17, 2023 7:31:01 GMT -4
Unless new laws were coming in that could lead to assault charges for a player fighting, I see no point to this rule. They're already really strict with fighting. It's not like the league is the same as it was in 2004 when you had the likes of Jimmy Bonneau or Kevin Cormier taking about 300 penalty minutes a season. Now the league leaders are generally around 130 penalty minutes, most of that just basic penalties.
Just seems like they're late to the party with this rule change.
I always enjoyed a good scrap in hockey, but the game did evolve for the better. I just feel like there's still issues with the game that needed addressing over fighting.
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Post by lirette on Mar 17, 2023 7:42:59 GMT -4
Who is suddenly going to start running goalies or taking out skilled players? Why can none of you who take this stance answer to why there were like 100x the terrible incidents and players being ran when there were actually goons that were supposed to prevent it? Now there's none of that stuff. And there's already no goons. Its not 2002 and suddenly every team needs to replace 3 guys. There haven't been real goons for a long time...and when they existed....they didn't prevent a thing. They provided entertainment. They provided a side show when the home team was losing 4-0. They didn't stop violence towards anyone. They were usually the ones doing it. How can anyone even try arguing otherwise at this point? The last decade literally proves that point. The fact this rule change really changes very little in how the current game is being played just makes me wonder if some people have even watched hockey over the last 10 years. I think there's a lot of people that just like the idea of a fight, but ultimately what do we get, maybe 1 or 2 fights per year that actually get people sharing clips of it? 95% of the time the guys fall over and everyone just closes their eyes and hopes no one hits their head on the ice or has a skate come up and hurt someone. Completely pointless. I support the ban of fighting, but just putting that aside for a second. Fights are actually one of the more boring things to happen in a hockey game. I think there's an excitement still there for a split second when you see the gloves drop and the guys square off, but after that I just personally feel like it looks completely idiotic. If your sport relies on teenagers beating the shit out of each other to sell tickets or be exciting, there's an issue with the core of your sport. No one is just going to start running goalies because there's no fighting, and if they do that is why you have penalties and suspensions available to you to handle that type of thing. There's plenty of leagues and events that have no fighting that can be used as evidence on what things will look like. People go cult wild for world juniors yet there isn't a single fight in almost any of the tournaments. Same with playoff hockey, every season there's some exciting cant miss playoff hockey at the junior level and rarely is there ever a fight. Lots of physicality and emotion but no one drops the gloves because its a side show that doesn't belong in a competitive hockey game. If there's someone who is still paying for junior hockey and need a fight to enjoy a hockey game you must be having a really bad time over the last 10 years or so.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 17, 2023 7:45:59 GMT -4
Unless new laws were coming in that could lead to assault charges for a player fighting, I see no point to this rule. They're already really strict with fighting. It's not like the league is the same as it was in 2004 when you had the likes of Jimmy Bonneau or Kevin Cormier taking about 300 penalty minutes a season. Now the league leaders are generally around 130 penalty minutes, most of that just basic penalties. Just seems like they're late to the party with this rule change. I always enjoyed a good scrap in hockey, but the game did evolve for the better. I just feel like there's still issues with the game that needed addressing over fighting. I think a lot of this stems from finding out that fighting causes brain damage and that fighters, due to the pain in face or hands end up addicted to pain killers(one well known Q fighter was). I don't think they should ban it completely, I think a game misconduct is sufficient, it's not a huge issue right now. That being said, in the NHL it's getting crazy, every hard, legal hit has to be followed by a fights, it's nuts.
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Post by lirette on Mar 17, 2023 7:46:46 GMT -4
I always enjoyed a good scrap in hockey, but the game did evolve for the better. I just feel like there's still issues with the game that needed addressing over fighting. Just because they are putting a rule in place to ban fighting doesn't mean they can't work on other things at the same time. Ultimately its just a rule change that involves an approval of some sort, its not like a bunch of executives are locked in a room unable to do anything else until this gets resolved.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 17, 2023 7:49:14 GMT -4
The Quebec Owners took a Bribe from the Government during the Pandemic in exchange for getting rid of Fighting . Now the New Q Commissioner is jumping in bed with the Politicians in Quebec and even Ottawa . The Referees have even come out saying that "Fighting still has a Place in the Game"........"you want these Guys to Police the Game properly" ? Even the French Media is saying that there is next to nil fighting in the League but now you open up the League to all kinds of potential other Negative stuff . www.sportsnet.ca/juniors/video/what-are-the-reasons-behind-the-qmjhl-moving-to-ban-fighting-instant-analysis/The OHL took most fighting out long before the Q did, they put in much stricter rules about 10 years ago that include suspensions after 3 or 4 fights.
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Post by Briwhel on Mar 17, 2023 7:52:18 GMT -4
Unless new laws were coming in that could lead to assault charges for a player fighting, I see no point to this rule. They're already really strict with fighting. It's not like the league is the same as it was in 2004 when you had the likes of Jimmy Bonneau or Kevin Cormier taking about 300 penalty minutes a season. Now the league leaders are generally around 130 penalty minutes, most of that just basic penalties. Just seems like they're late to the party with this rule change. I always enjoyed a good scrap in hockey, but the game did evolve for the better. I just feel like there's still issues with the game that needed addressing over fighting. Enrico Ciccone is pushing heavily for it. There is absolutely a threat of new laws behind it. There are very few tough guys out there that are capable of intelligently speaking of the repercussions which plays a large part in why fighting has lasted as long as it has at this level. I'm not expecting fighting to completely leave the game, but I am expecting that this rule set will dramatically decrease the prevalence of it. Keep in mind that there have been 12 suspensions this year for fighting, so while fighting is down, there were still 9 players with 3 or more. Adding a game misconduct creates a double-edged suspension sword (because both codes trigger suspensions).
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Post by Briwhel on Mar 17, 2023 7:55:34 GMT -4
The Quebec Owners took a Bribe from the Government during the Pandemic in exchange for getting rid of Fighting . Now the New Q Commissioner is jumping in bed with the Politicians in Quebec and even Ottawa . The Referees have even come out saying that "Fighting still has a Place in the Game"........"you want these Guys to Police the Game properly" ? Even the French Media is saying that there is next to nil fighting in the League but now you open up the League to all kinds of potential other Negative stuff . www.sportsnet.ca/juniors/video/what-are-the-reasons-behind-the-qmjhl-moving-to-ban-fighting-instant-analysis/The OHL took most fighting out long before the Q did, they put in much stricter rules about 10 years ago that include suspensions after 3 or 4 fights. For the OHL, it is 2 games for every fight after the 2nd of the year. The WHL basically has the same rules as the NHL.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 17, 2023 8:17:03 GMT -4
Unless new laws were coming in that could lead to assault charges for a player fighting, I see no point to this rule. They're already really strict with fighting. It's not like the league is the same as it was in 2004 when you had the likes of Jimmy Bonneau or Kevin Cormier taking about 300 penalty minutes a season. Now the league leaders are generally around 130 penalty minutes, most of that just basic penalties. Just seems like they're late to the party with this rule change. I always enjoyed a good scrap in hockey, but the game did evolve for the better. I just feel like there's still issues with the game that needed addressing over fighting. The rules closes the door. Basically rubber stamps the point that evolution has removed fighting so the argument can only be made by idiots that they're actually changing the game. The game has already been changed for a while with this. This really is also shining a light on those who clearly are not watching hockey. Anyone arguing this will result in more stick work or that stars won't be protected isn't watching hockey and hasn't for a long time. But this does stop an old school coach from breaking training camp with 2 goons trying to drag things back 15 years. There's no going backwards with this but they 100% did the right thing by allowing the evolution to already remove it....there really is no argument on how this now changes anything as the game has already been being played this way and rosters already reflect that.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 17, 2023 8:22:29 GMT -4
The Quebec Owners took a Bribe from the Government during the Pandemic in exchange for getting rid of Fighting . Now the New Q Commissioner is jumping in bed with the Politicians in Quebec and even Ottawa . The Referees have even come out saying that "Fighting still has a Place in the Game"........"you want these Guys to Police the Game properly" ? Even the French Media is saying that there is next to nil fighting in the League but now you open up the League to all kinds of potential other Negative stuff . www.sportsnet.ca/juniors/video/what-are-the-reasons-behind-the-qmjhl-moving-to-ban-fighting-instant-analysis/A) Why don't we see the negative stuff now. Think about how slanted some of these divisional games have been...CB has 6 games giving up 6+ to just Bathurst and SJ. Did ANY of these actually results in anything emotional? Thinks back to what chaos we seen 20 years ago when some of those teams had a rivalry. B) Why do you not ever recognize that we've removed negative stuff by removing the goons? Most incidents we seen early on were due to the presence of goons. They didn't prevent negative stuff....they were the ones doing it and raising the temperature to initiate it. I look forward to the first suspension next year when everyone says fighting would have stopped it. Yet those same people can't explain why we'll have less suspensions and WAY less penalty minutes overall vs 20 years ago when players were wearing PIM records as a badge of honor.
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Post by jimmy on Mar 17, 2023 8:32:08 GMT -4
I think throwing around the word "ban" is just to appease the politicians ... what will happen is that the penalties for fighting will more closely resemble those of U Sports or minor hockey - fights will result in an ejection and suspension, with the suspensions increasing in length for multiple offenses. And the result is that fighting will drop to near-zero levels, but will still occur from time to time, resulting in discipline - much like checking from behind or spearing is currently "banned" - still happens on occasion - but the rules deal with offenders harshly.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Mar 17, 2023 8:36:22 GMT -4
Fighting is organically dying off anyway for all kinds of reasons.
1) In lower levels they can't fight and don't learn how to... 20 years ago they learned that part of game. I don't think it's something you can add to the tool chest at a higher level.
2) Teams are drafting guys who can skate and make plays - there just aren't the # unicorns available who also can balance that competitive contribution with aggressiveness. One of the last examples is Zach L'Heureux and he isn't a very good fighter - got his clock cleaned by Conor Shortall. But clearly as we move into next decade finding 2 guys comfortable to fight on the ice at same time in the same game gonna be rare. And who wants to watch people who can't fight? This will not be Dave Brown vs Marty McSorley. It will be awkward to watch.
3) Teams built for (building for) playoff runs don't have space to save for 4th line intimidator types. The coaches today are learning to win without it. Novel ideas like 4 lines that can score now matter. D guys pinch more etc.
4) The league suspends for more things than ever so the punishment is embedded in the process so no need for players to police as in the old days. In fact we get on case of players roughing it up after clean hits all the time. Video has changed the game and the need.
5) Reality of what we know today about concussions and all. You can fight and take the penalty but the leagues have to be clear they are not sanctioning it. A ban sends that message.
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