Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 8:38:30 GMT -4
Exactly right Jimmy, you can't ban idiots or reactionary behavior that happens in the heat of the moment. This will be simply a rule adjustment that equates fighting to cross checking someone in the face or hitting someone violently from behind. Ejection, Match PIM and suspension, it will be that simple. Accumulation of codes will apply and the severity of the suspension will go up for repeat offenders.
Saying its banned is like saying a hit from behind comes with an automatic lifetime suspension.
|
|
|
Post by jimmy on Mar 17, 2023 8:49:21 GMT -4
B) Why do you not ever recognize that we've removed negative stuff by removing the goons? Most incidents we seen early on were due to the presence of goons. They didn't prevent negative stuff....they were the ones doing it and raising the temperature to initiate it. Totally agree ... 90% of the stuff the old-school goons were patrolling was caused by their fellow goons.
|
|
|
Post by lirette on Mar 17, 2023 8:55:25 GMT -4
Exactly right Jimmy, you can't ban idiots or reactionary behavior that happens in the heat of the moment. This will be simply a rule adjustment that equates fighting to cross checking someone in the face or hitting someone violently from behind. Ejection, Match PIM and suspension, it will be that simple. Accumulation of codes will apply and the severity of the suspension will go up for repeat offenders. Saying its banned is like saying a hit from behind comes with an automatic lifetime suspension. I don't think the comparison is the right one. A ref can't physically stop a check from behind or cross check from happening, but linesman can in fact step in and stop a fight from happening in most cases, they do it already when someone's helmet comes off or the guys take too long and make a show of it. If they want to, they could go the route and asking linesman to step in and break up fights when its possible to do so, although its more likely they go the route and automatic 1 game suspension on any fight.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 17, 2023 9:00:20 GMT -4
Exactly right Jimmy, you can't ban idiots or reactionary behavior that happens in the heat of the moment. This will be simply a rule adjustment that equates fighting to cross checking someone in the face or hitting someone violently from behind. Ejection, Match PIM and suspension, it will be that simple. Accumulation of codes will apply and the severity of the suspension will go up for repeat offenders. Saying its banned is like saying a hit from behind comes with an automatic lifetime suspension. I don't think the comparison is the right one. A ref can't physically stop a check from behind or cross check from happening, but linesman can in fact step in and stop a fight from happening in most cases, they do it already when someone's helmet comes off or the guys take too long and make a show of it. If they want to, they could go the route and asking linesman to step in and break up fights when its possible to do so, although its more likely they go the route and automatic 1 game suspension on any fight. I think the best rule would be game ejection plus a 1 game suspension in the last 5 minutes of if the score is more than x goals difference.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 17, 2023 9:06:08 GMT -4
B) Why do you not ever recognize that we've removed negative stuff by removing the goons? Most incidents we seen early on were due to the presence of goons. They didn't prevent negative stuff....they were the ones doing it and raising the temperature to initiate it. Totally agree ... 90% of the stuff the old-school goons were patrolling was caused by their fellow goons. And even in that era....goons didn't stop players like L'Heureux from doing their thing...if anything those players had more reign to play chippier because they had 3 goons to back them up and nobody in another teams top 6 was going to stop him.
|
|
|
Post by trueblue on Mar 17, 2023 9:12:22 GMT -4
How many true enforcers are there left in the league?
Top 10 PIM leaders this season, with their respective fighting majors in parentheses: Hamel, Anthony 123 (2) Desrosiers, Jonathan 97 (1) Iasenza, Francesco 91 (1) Chouinard, Émile 87 (1) Savoie, Samuel 82 (0) Gauthier, Kaylen 82 (2) Boutin, Charles 78 (1) Hughes, Simon 78 (3) Roelens, Milo 78 (1) Cournoyer, Edouard 76 (4)
And the top 10 fighting majors leaders: Hinkley, Lane 5 Bowness, Sam 4 Cournoyer, Edouard 4 Perron, Mathis 4 Elliott, Drew 3 Fleming, Joe 3 Henderson, Cameron 3 Hughes, Simon 3 Lallier, Alexandre 3 MacKinnon, Dylan 3 McRae, Matthew 3
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 17, 2023 9:12:51 GMT -4
Exactly right Jimmy, you can't ban idiots or reactionary behavior that happens in the heat of the moment. This will be simply a rule adjustment that equates fighting to cross checking someone in the face or hitting someone violently from behind. Ejection, Match PIM and suspension, it will be that simple. Accumulation of codes will apply and the severity of the suspension will go up for repeat offenders. Saying its banned is like saying a hit from behind comes with an automatic lifetime suspension. I don't think the comparison is the right one. A ref can't physically stop a check from behind or cross check from happening, but linesman can in fact step in and stop a fight from happening in most cases, they do it already when someone's helmet comes off or the guys take too long and make a show of it. If they want to, they could go the route and asking linesman to step in and break up fights when its possible to do so, although its more likely they go the route and automatic 1 game suspension on any fight. And you have to assume the rule change will also come with those linesmen stepping in way quicker to stop a fight if it does happen. The message is being sent loud and clear to the players. It appears to mostly be dinosaurs pushing back...most of whom clearly haven't watched hockey in a long time based on some cringey social media takes i've seen.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 17, 2023 9:16:55 GMT -4
How many true enforcers are there left in the league? Top 10 PIM leaders this season, with their respective fighting majors in parentheses: Hamel, Anthony 123 (2) Desrosiers, Jonathan 97 (1) Iasenza, Francesco 91 (1) Chouinard, Émile 87 (1) Savoie, Samuel 82 (0) Gauthier, Kaylen 82 (2) Boutin, Charles 78 (1) Hughes, Simon 78 (3) Roelens, Milo 78 (1) Cournoyer, Edouard 76 (4) And the top 10 fighting majors leaders: Hinkley, Lane 5 Bowness, Sam 4 Cournoyer, Edouard 4 Perron, Mathis 4 Elliott, Drew 3 Fleming, Joe 3 Henderson, Cameron 3 Hughes, Simon 3 Lallier, Alexandre 3 MacKinnon, Dylan 3 McRae, Matthew 3 Thats why now is the time. There's already no goons left. And for some reason certain people in this sport just can't let go of the "heat of the battle" or "need to protect players" bs that exists in every sport but the rest also eject players for fighting...thats what the sports of MMA or boxing are for. Baseball doesn't allow mound charging but it happens. Football is as physical as hockey and they don't allow the OL and DL to fight in a blowout for entertainment. The list here is endless and just shows how hockey is simply the last to adapt.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 17, 2023 9:20:52 GMT -4
Fighting is organically dying off anyway for all kinds of reasons. 1) In lower levels they can't fight and don't learn how to... 20 years ago they learned that part of game. I don't think it's something you can add to the tool chest at a higher level. I may be wrong on this but I believe locally our midget teams have never been allowed to fight in terms of staying in the game afterwards and they also wore cages. Some of the goons who came through really got their fighting experience at this level and had to fight their way through training camp to make a team. Like I don't think George Davis ever fought in midget. Doesnt mean he didn't intimidate and play a physical role but I think the rules were kicking them out for a fight even back then.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 9:30:18 GMT -4
Exactly right Jimmy, you can't ban idiots or reactionary behavior that happens in the heat of the moment. This will be simply a rule adjustment that equates fighting to cross checking someone in the face or hitting someone violently from behind. Ejection, Match PIM and suspension, it will be that simple. Accumulation of codes will apply and the severity of the suspension will go up for repeat offenders. Saying its banned is like saying a hit from behind comes with an automatic lifetime suspension. I don't think the comparison is the right one. A ref can't physically stop a check from behind or cross check from happening, but linesman can in fact step in and stop a fight from happening in most cases, they do it already when someone's helmet comes off or the guys take too long and make a show of it. If they want to, they could go the route and asking linesman to step in and break up fights when its possible to do so, although its more likely they go the route and automatic 1 game suspension on any fight. Linesman jumping in to stop fights is a pure judgement call and they are instructed to do so when it is both safe for the players and for them. Their role will not change, they are already asked to break up what ever then can, when they can do it safely without putting themselves at risk. It's all about timing and safety when it comes to breaking up a fight. They can't stop a check from behind and they won't stop a fight if they are at immediate risk. I don't see anything changing from the amount of fights where ref's intervene.
|
|
|
Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Mar 17, 2023 9:35:31 GMT -4
I miss fighting in the sense that it added a ton of emotion to the games, especially in the rink.
BUT I recognize the trauma and injury it can have on the players, whether young or older. The game of hockey is about putting the puck in the net. It is quite barbaric that thousands of grown adults would excitedly stand and scream at these high school kids to go after someone in that manner, and scream and cheer while they are led to the box shaky-kneed and bleeding from the eye socket. Most of these kids got to this level because of their hockey ability and love of the game, now suddenly we expect them to take punches to the face for our enjoyment?
I get it. And it's been basically gone for years. And they will still happen once in a while, just with stiffer penalties. But nothing beat the buzz of an emotionally fired up game back in the day.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 9:37:16 GMT -4
I think we will see this as a rule change and not a new way of on ice policing. Game Misconduct, followed by a situational assessment of the score, time on clock, infraction leading to the altercation, etc. Then accumulation of codes which leads to multiple game suspensions. Repeat offenders will be heavily penalized IMO.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2023 9:45:42 GMT -4
Fighting is organically dying off anyway for all kinds of reasons. 1) In lower levels they can't fight and don't learn how to... 20 years ago they learned that part of game. I don't think it's something you can add to the tool chest at a higher level. I may be wrong on this but I believe locally our midget teams have never been allowed to fight in terms of staying in the game afterwards and they also wore cages. Some of the goons who came through really got their fighting experience at this level and had to fight their way through training camp to make a team. Like I don't think George Davis ever fought in midget. Doesnt mean he didn't intimidate and play a physical role but I think the rules were kicking them out for a fight even back then. Hockey Nova Scotia minimum standards for fighting. First offense - 5 games 2nd offense - 10 games 3rd offense - Suspended Indef. And you can tack on games for Agressor , instigator, 3rd man in and last 10 mins of a game.
|
|
|
Post by jimmy on Mar 17, 2023 9:55:54 GMT -4
Fighting is organically dying off anyway for all kinds of reasons. 1) In lower levels they can't fight and don't learn how to... 20 years ago they learned that part of game. I don't think it's something you can add to the tool chest at a higher level. I may be wrong on this but I believe locally our midget teams have never been allowed to fight in terms of staying in the game afterwards and they also wore cages. Some of the goons who came through really got their fighting experience at this level and had to fight their way through training camp to make a team. Like I don't think George Davis ever fought in midget. Doesnt mean he didn't intimidate and play a physical role but I think the rules were kicking them out for a fight even back then. I can't recall fighting being allowed in midget, but you used to see the Junior A and B leagues as training grounds for enforcers, and both have taken steps to heavily restrict fighting in recent years. Junior B is now a full cage league, and I think Junior A is going that way next year.
|
|
|
Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 17, 2023 10:13:09 GMT -4
I miss fighting in the sense that it added a ton of emotion to the games, especially in the rink. BUT I recognize the trauma and injury it can have on the players, whether young or older. The game of hockey is about putting the puck in the net. It is quite barbaric that thousands of grown adults would excitedly stand and scream at these high school kids to go after someone in that manner, and scream and cheer while they are led to the box shaky-kneed and bleeding from the eye socket. Most of these kids got to this level because of their hockey ability and love of the game, now suddenly we expect them to take punches to the face for our enjoyment? I get it. And it's been basically gone for years. And they will still happen once in a while, just with stiffer penalties. But nothing beat the buzz of an emotionally fired up game back in the day. I'm with you. And I think its ok to take that stance. I get why the change happened. But as someone who grew up with that being what this level was....its extremely hard (impossible even) to find the same enjoyment on a day to day year to year level now because unless you're an amazing team on a deep run the emotion is just completely gone and its never coming back and some will never understand how it was a completely different world in that era...for good and bad....but it was damn entertaining and there was a lot more people leaving a rink with plans to come back for the next one vs what we see now in a 4-2 game with not only no fighting but essentially very little physical contact at all.
|
|