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Post by hal on Mar 21, 2023 17:27:51 GMT -4
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Post by Score on Mar 22, 2023 17:32:38 GMT -4
Sports talk show, Tim and Friends, on Sportsnet, will have the new commissioner of the QMJHL on discussing the potential no fighting rule.
Between 7-8pm.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 23, 2023 9:12:02 GMT -4
That was a solid article until the Bruce Campbell part. Then it became a train wreck of false nostalgia. Sold out LOTS of buildings because of their rough play? We're to believe visiting fans sold out rinks to see any of those 3 guys as Eagles? What kind of revisionist history are we trying to sell here exactly? And then this.... The guy references Lahache and Morency saying they didnt play with any high NHL picks so it must have been the fighting filling seats. Lahache and Morency each played at least 1.5 seasons with Marc-Andre Fleury. Morency was acquired by Vincent and never even played for Campbell. But again we're to believe that fighting is why the Metro Center would be sold out for an early day CB vs Halifax game? I appreciate the perspective of the former players. But that part of it just left a sour taste in my mouth as it should have been very easy for Jeremy to provide a little bit of context (truth more like it) to some of the historical references that for the most part were completely bs.
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Post by lirette on Mar 23, 2023 9:25:01 GMT -4
That was a solid article until the Bruce Campbell part. Then it became a train wreck of false nostalgia. Sold out LOTS of buildings because of their rough play? We're to believe visiting fans sold out rinks to see any of those 3 guys as Eagles? What kind of revisionist history are we trying to sell here exactly? And then this.... The guy references Lahache and Morency saying they didnt play with any high NHL picks so it must have been the fighting filling seats. Lahache and Morency each played at least 1.5 seasons with Marc-Andre Fleury. Morency was acquired by Vincent and never even played for Campbell. But again we're to believe that fighting is why the Metro Center would be sold out for an early day CB vs Halifax game? I appreciate the perspective of the former players. But that part of it just left a sour taste in my mouth as it should have been very easy for Jeremy to provide a little bit of context (truth more like it) to some of the historical references that for the most part were completely bs. Interviewing Hunter Lahache about whether fighting should be removed is like asking Danny Flynn whether any rules to increase goal scoring should be allowed.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 23, 2023 9:58:27 GMT -4
That was a solid article until the Bruce Campbell part. Then it became a train wreck of false nostalgia. Sold out LOTS of buildings because of their rough play? We're to believe visiting fans sold out rinks to see any of those 3 guys as Eagles? What kind of revisionist history are we trying to sell here exactly? And then this.... The guy references Lahache and Morency saying they didnt play with any high NHL picks so it must have been the fighting filling seats. Lahache and Morency each played at least 1.5 seasons with Marc-Andre Fleury. Morency was acquired by Vincent and never even played for Campbell. But again we're to believe that fighting is why the Metro Center would be sold out for an early day CB vs Halifax game? I appreciate the perspective of the former players. But that part of it just left a sour taste in my mouth as it should have been very easy for Jeremy to provide a little bit of context (truth more like it) to some of the historical references that for the most part were completely bs. Interviewing Hunter Lahache about whether fighting should be removed is like asking Danny Flynn whether any rules to increase goal scoring should be allowed. Haha. It's so true. I also notice that with 100% accuracy that not one of the fighters who continue to tell us great players need protection can't tell us why there were not only more incidents...but like more incidents to the power of 3 or 4 when those guys all played and as a night owl I regularly am watching Conor McDavid fly around NHL defencemen and nobody is taking the liberties with him that I keep reading he needs protection from according to these tough guys. The tough guys were needed to protect hockey players from the other tough guys is the reality very few want to admit. 90% of social media commentary on this is coming from people who I don't think have watched hockey in the last 5-8 years or so. The sport these people have convinced exists in their mind isn't the sport of hockey as its existed since 2015 or so in my view.
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Post by Briwhel on Mar 23, 2023 10:19:34 GMT -4
Interviewing Hunter Lahache about whether fighting should be removed is like asking Danny Flynn whether any rules to increase goal scoring should be allowed. Haha. It's so true. I also notice that with 100% accuracy that not one of the fighters who continue to tell us great players need protection can't tell us why there were not only more incidents...but like more incidents to the power of 3 or 4 when those guys all played and as a night owl I regularly am watching Conor McDavid fly around NHL defencemen and nobody is taking the liberties with him that I keep reading he needs protection from according to these tough guys. The tough guys were needed to protect hockey players from the other tough guys is the reality very few want to admit. 90% of social media commentary on this is coming from people who I don't think have watched hockey in the last 5-8 years or so. The sport these people have convinced exists in their mind isn't the sport of hockey as its existed since 2015 or so in my view. And then the rub of all this is that the biggest backer of the QMJHL rule is Enrico Ciccone, a former NHL tough guy who understands the problems that tough guys in the QMJHL created.
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Post by pinkbeaver on Mar 23, 2023 10:42:07 GMT -4
Agree nobody is being protected by fighting. the term "side act" is a perfect way of describing it.
With that said, It might be a "cave man" mentality to enjoy a fight, but i would say that the majority of fans do. The product is worse without fighting. Its a small part of why attendance is diminishing. I think fighting impacts the game in other ways that haven't been discussed. It can add an increased, emotion, intensity, etc. to an otherwise passionless regular season game. It can also create story lines that draw interest.
As a kid, my favorite game ever is when the cats played RN in the 05 playoffs. There were 5 fights in 9 seconds of play. there were double the players in the penalty box than on the bench. maybe that makes me a Neanderthal, but its the truth. You can't make people feel a certain way, and alter their value system/ethical beliefs.
I understand that most on this forum are generally higher educated, more intelligent, and fairly sophisticated bunch. However, most out there aren't above fighting, and don't turn their nose up to it.
I've been to 1 game this year in SJ on a Wednesday night. Rink was empty and the game was like watching a scrimmage.
I was also to 1 senior hockey game in Miramichi on a Friday night. There were just as many fans (not an exaggeration. Wish i could reference attendance somewhere) and the game was far more exciting. Yes there were 2 fights, but the players were playing with intensity/emotion. The fans were very engaged, yelling, cheering, etc. The product was better, maybe not for all, but the majority of hockey fans it would be.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 23, 2023 10:54:48 GMT -4
Agree nobody is being protected by fighting. the term "side act" is a perfect way of describing it. With that said, It might be a "cave man" mentality to enjoy a fight, but i would say that the majority of fans do. The product is worse without fighting. Its a small part of why attendance is diminishing. I think fighting impacts the game in other ways that haven't been discussed. It can add an increased, emotion, intensity, etc. to an otherwise passionless regular season game. It can also create story lines that draw interest. As a kid, my favorite game ever is when the cats played RN in the 05 playoffs. There were 5 fights in 9 seconds of play. there were double the players in the penalty box than on the bench. maybe that makes me a Neanderthal, but its the truth. You can't make people feel a certain way, and alter their value system/ethical beliefs. I understand that most on this forum are generally higher educated, more intelligent, and fairly sophisticated bunch. However, most out there aren't above fighting, and don't turn their nose up to it. I've been to 1 game this year in SJ on a Wednesday night. Rink was empty and the game was like watching a scrimmage. I was also to 1 senior hockey game in Miramichi on a Friday night. There were just as many fans (not an exaggeration. Wish i could reference attendance somewhere) and the game was far more exciting. Yes there were 2 fights, but the players were playing with intensity/emotion. The fans were very engaged, yelling, cheering, etc. The product was better, maybe not for all, but the majority of hockey fans it would be. I think most here agree with you. It's ok to both say the game is way less exciting, entertaining and emotional without the fighting as a major role but that the sport also had to change. The problem becomes as we evolve...how can we keep letting the violence those guys also brought leave a black eye on the sport? Because we also all seem to be seeing now that there was no protection happening...there were way more incidents on stars when the goons played. Way more incidents on non-stars when the goons played. And the incidents that may have been player v player ended up as team v team when each team had 4 guys who felt they only had a roster spot to fill that role. But how many fans were in SJ last year on a Wednesday when the team was a contender? A rebuilding team playing to an empty rink on a Wednesday happened WITH fighting and goons. Thats not something only happening now. There's always this revisionist history done to make us believe the rinks were full with fans hanging from the rafters to watch these huge guys punch each others lights out. We all know that wasnt true. But with the excitement, entertainment, and emotion came violence and terrible images for the league. Continent wide coverage of brawls. Hazing we know now crossed many lines yet some would still say was just "boys being boys". These leagues were anything but a place a 15 or 16yr old should be when you really think about it. And we couldn't continue down that path. How do we fix it? At this level you need to get to the grass roots level and sell the sport of hockey. Goals and assists and great goaltending and everything else that still exists. Because as everyone has also said for a while now....those still here thinking fighting is returning must have lived a pretty miserable last decade or so because there's lots of places to find fights in society these days but a QMJHL arena isn't going to be it today or ever again in our lifetimes so the quicker everyone adapts the better off we'll be.
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Post by lirette on Mar 23, 2023 11:58:23 GMT -4
Agree nobody is being protected by fighting. the term "side act" is a perfect way of describing it. With that said, It might be a "cave man" mentality to enjoy a fight, but i would say that the majority of fans do. The product is worse without fighting. Its a small part of why attendance is diminishing. I think fighting impacts the game in other ways that haven't been discussed. It can add an increased, emotion, intensity, etc. to an otherwise passionless regular season game. It can also create story lines that draw interest. As a kid, my favorite game ever is when the cats played RN in the 05 playoffs. There were 5 fights in 9 seconds of play. there were double the players in the penalty box than on the bench. maybe that makes me a Neanderthal, but its the truth. You can't make people feel a certain way, and alter their value system/ethical beliefs. I understand that most on this forum are generally higher educated, more intelligent, and fairly sophisticated bunch. However, most out there aren't above fighting, and don't turn their nose up to it. I've been to 1 game this year in SJ on a Wednesday night. Rink was empty and the game was like watching a scrimmage. I was also to 1 senior hockey game in Miramichi on a Friday night. There were just as many fans (not an exaggeration. Wish i could reference attendance somewhere) and the game was far more exciting. Yes there were 2 fights, but the players were playing with intensity/emotion. The fans were very engaged, yelling, cheering, etc. The product was better, maybe not for all, but the majority of hockey fans it would be. The majority of people also loved watching Scott Stevens crash into peoples heads at center ice and then cheer on as a guy with potential brain damage crawl back to the bench. But then we realized the long term effects of that and created rules to better protect the players from headshots. I think its just a really irresponsible idea to let kids whos brains are still developing punch each other in the face, most of which are kid who will not make a full time career out of being a hockey player. I think it will take a long time to ever get it out of the NHL game, probably 10+ years. I separate the junior hockey discussion on fighting from the NHL. Wildcats attendance isn't really that different from the days when goons ruled the league. The mooseheads attendance is better than the days when Jody Shelley was on the team. Yes we all have that friend who gave up on hockey because its not rock'm sock'm anymore, but I'm not entirely convinced that attendance is down due to changes to fighting. In Moncton, I noticed lots of fans who I no longer see at the rink, but I also see brand new season ticket holders each year.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 23, 2023 12:04:04 GMT -4
Agree nobody is being protected by fighting. the term "side act" is a perfect way of describing it. With that said, It might be a "cave man" mentality to enjoy a fight, but i would say that the majority of fans do. The product is worse without fighting. Its a small part of why attendance is diminishing. I think fighting impacts the game in other ways that haven't been discussed. It can add an increased, emotion, intensity, etc. to an otherwise passionless regular season game. It can also create story lines that draw interest. As a kid, my favorite game ever is when the cats played RN in the 05 playoffs. There were 5 fights in 9 seconds of play. there were double the players in the penalty box than on the bench. maybe that makes me a Neanderthal, but its the truth. You can't make people feel a certain way, and alter their value system/ethical beliefs. I understand that most on this forum are generally higher educated, more intelligent, and fairly sophisticated bunch. However, most out there aren't above fighting, and don't turn their nose up to it. I've been to 1 game this year in SJ on a Wednesday night. Rink was empty and the game was like watching a scrimmage. I was also to 1 senior hockey game in Miramichi on a Friday night. There were just as many fans (not an exaggeration. Wish i could reference attendance somewhere) and the game was far more exciting. Yes there were 2 fights, but the players were playing with intensity/emotion. The fans were very engaged, yelling, cheering, etc. The product was better, maybe not for all, but the majority of hockey fans it would be. The majority of people also loved watching Scott Stevens crash into peoples heads at center ice and then cheer on as a guy with potential brain damage crawl back to the bench. But then we realized the long term effects of that and created rules to better protect the players from headshots. I think its just a really irresponsible idea to let kids whos brains are still developing punch each other in the face, most of which are kid who will not make a full time career out of being a hockey player. I think it will take a long time to ever get it out of the NHL game, probably 10+ years. I separate the junior hockey discussion on fighting from the NHL. Wildcats attendance isn't really that different from the days when goons ruled the league. The mooseheads attendance is better than the days when Jody Shelley was on the team. Yes we all have that friend who gave up on hockey because its not rock'm sock'm anymore, but I'm not entirely convinced that attendance is down due to changes to fighting. In Moncton, I noticed lots of fans who I no longer see at the rink, but I also see brand new season ticket holders each year. To me what was irresponsible was saying you're a junior hockey league that needs the grass roots support to survive. So you're family friendly. Minor hockey friendly. Yet openly you encourage the chaos and violence as you did nothing for decades to prevent any of it. What kind of message are you sending to a 7yr old after a game where the goons creates chaos and the hockey game became a violent side show? Or what message is it to the parent who already may not love that their kid plays hockey due to the violence and head injuries...you may have just pushed them to become a soccer parent. I'd argue that the league absolutely could have kept the goons, fighting, intimidation....but it would have had to lose the kids in the stands to some degree. There 100% is an evolution every team has to go through to create new fans. You'll always have people drop in and out based on their lives at the time.
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Post by Briwhel on Mar 23, 2023 12:13:16 GMT -4
Honestly, I think that the way to bring excitement back is to start actually calling the rulebook. While the Sea Dogs played a better defensive system in the Memorial Cup, the biggest difference between it and the playoffs was referees calling clutch and grab. If you can't blatantly stick your arm out to prevent a forecheck, you have to actually develop hockey skills.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 23, 2023 12:39:14 GMT -4
Honestly, I think that the way to bring excitement back is to start actually calling the rulebook. While the Sea Dogs played a better defensive system in the Memorial Cup, the biggest difference between it and the playoffs was referees calling clutch and grab. If you can't blatantly stick your arm out to prevent a forecheck, you have to actually develop hockey skills. I also think a way to do it is for the leagues to start being WAY over the top with pushing the final 4 semifinal rounds. Make people want to be in those environments. Even back when fighting was a thing there was still nothing more exciting then being in the rink for a huge playoff game. But you cant build that excitement by having a big playoff game in Halifax and the only visibility be on a webcast few want to pay for or a local channel 10 on a regional provider that has less and less subscribers over time. We have NHL top prospects playing in front of thousands of people....get the games on a national network so more people can have access...assume the fans in SJ and Bathurst who may not have had a game to see in 8 weeks may still want to watch the exciting wrap up to the league playoff. The CHL's final 4 should be broadcast and marketed like the Memorial Cup tournament is. Those eyeballs will go further to growing your game then a few people paying $10 for a webcast will.
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Post by Briwhel on Mar 23, 2023 12:48:05 GMT -4
Honestly, I think that the way to bring excitement back is to start actually calling the rulebook. While the Sea Dogs played a better defensive system in the Memorial Cup, the biggest difference between it and the playoffs was referees calling clutch and grab. If you can't blatantly stick your arm out to prevent a forecheck, you have to actually develop hockey skills. I also think a way to do it is for the leagues to start being WAY over the top with pushing the final 4 semifinal rounds. Make people want to be in those environments. Even back when fighting was a thing there was still nothing more exciting then being in the rink for a huge playoff game. But you cant build that excitement by having a big playoff game in Halifax and the only visibility be on a webcast few want to pay for or a local channel 10 on a regional provider that has less and less subscribers over time. We have NHL top prospects playing in front of thousands of people....get the games on a national network so more people can have access...assume the fans in SJ and Bathurst who may not have had a game to see in 8 weeks may still want to watch the exciting wrap up to the league playoff. The CHL's final 4 should be broadcast and marketed like the Memorial Cup tournament is. Those eyeballs will go further to growing your game then a few people paying $10 for a webcast will. I'm not so sure. I have the Q package and have watched a grand total of 2 non-SJ games. Of the teams in the playoffs, I'd enjoy Gatineau, Victoriaville or Sherbrooke versus Quebec and that's about it. Halifax ranges between fun to watch and completely unwatchable.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Mar 23, 2023 13:10:48 GMT -4
I also think a way to do it is for the leagues to start being WAY over the top with pushing the final 4 semifinal rounds. Make people want to be in those environments. Even back when fighting was a thing there was still nothing more exciting then being in the rink for a huge playoff game. But you cant build that excitement by having a big playoff game in Halifax and the only visibility be on a webcast few want to pay for or a local channel 10 on a regional provider that has less and less subscribers over time. We have NHL top prospects playing in front of thousands of people....get the games on a national network so more people can have access...assume the fans in SJ and Bathurst who may not have had a game to see in 8 weeks may still want to watch the exciting wrap up to the league playoff. The CHL's final 4 should be broadcast and marketed like the Memorial Cup tournament is. Those eyeballs will go further to growing your game then a few people paying $10 for a webcast will. I'm not so sure. I have the Q package and have watched a grand total of 2 non-SJ games. Of the teams in the playoffs, I'd enjoy Gatineau, Victoriaville or Sherbrooke versus Quebec and that's about it. Halifax ranges between fun to watch and completely unwatchable. I get that but you're already more then just a casual fan if you have the package. What about the people who don't have the package? Might be season ticket holders. Might go to 3 games per year. But come playoff time when there's a big game on...if its on a national network maybe I will tune in. But if its on the QMJHL web package I might not even know its happening. If its on Eastlink channel 10 and I'm either a cord cutter or simply with another provider I also may not even know its happening. At some point you need to try to attract hockey fans that may not be huge CHL local team fans...but may be if they start to see some great playoff games and see a fun atmosphere...all which spreads quicker when its seen by a larger audience.
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Post by countryboy on Mar 23, 2023 15:54:54 GMT -4
Last year when the Islanders were in the final, I think TSN had plans to broadcast the President’s Cup final from game 3 onward. I also think they showed all of the OHL and WHL finals.
Some sort of schedule conflict resulted in game 1/2 of the Q final being broadcast.
It would be awesome if the final 4 was the start of TV coverage, but I’d be hopeful the final is broadcast again this spring.
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