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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2023 7:41:30 GMT -4
So Who do we think the Habs will select ? I see them picking at the #4 spot and taking Smith. What do you expect them to trade to move to 4th? 31st OA pick?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2023 8:03:21 GMT -4
Lots of echo's yesterday that guys like Backlund, Lindholm and Toffoli were not looking to sign extensions in Calgary, Hanifin is already looking to move. With the core guys they have signed for 3+ years, seems unlikely they are doing a full rebuild, so they may move guys in a sign a and trade similar to the Huberdeau and Severson deals.
With the Wpg Wheeler, Dubois & Hellebuck situations, it should be a busy few weeks for Canadian teams.
I expect Montreal to try and make another Dach type deal, trade picks/prospects for a young NHLer...that could be Dubois, but also maybe a guy like Turcotte or Byfield in LA if Dubois ends up there and/or Kopitar signs an extension.
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Post by hal on Jun 23, 2023 9:55:23 GMT -4
Is it some kind of Mutiny going on in Calgary ?
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 10:18:51 GMT -4
Is it some kind of Mutiny going on in Calgary ? Calgary isn't the same market it was 10 or 20 years ago. If you're a player and going to sign somewhere for the next 2-8 years would you want to say there? It's an average core with some questionable pieces signed to long term deals. Not only no real top prospects coming through but the coach they just had also refused to even try and develop the youth and actually took turns shitting on the prospects and the media wanting to play them. There's an entire new GM and coach. But with what experience and winning pedigree? If I don't google who their coach is right now....I really have no idea who it even is. Then I look around the West and see either teams in their prime or approaching it with elite players or young teams with a group of young kids where the entire top 5 is better then anything Calgary has in the system. Until they figure out how to draft and develop and get the new rink in place Calgary is not a great market for a player wanting to win right now.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2023 10:35:29 GMT -4
Is it some kind of Mutiny going on in Calgary ? Calgary isn't the same market it was 10 or 20 years ago. If you're a player and going to sign somewhere for the next 2-8 years would you want to say there? It's an average core with some questionable pieces signed to long term deals. Not only no real top prospects coming through but the coach they just had also refused to even try and develop the youth and actually took turns shitting on the prospects and the media wanting to play them. There's an entire new GM and coach. But with what experience and winning pedigree? If I don't google who their coach is right now....I really have no idea who it even is. Then I look around the West and see either teams in their prime or approaching it with elite players or young teams with a group of young kids where the entire top 5 is better then anything Calgary has in the system. Until they figure out how to draft and develop and get the new rink in place Calgary is not a great market for a player wanting to win right now. I think Calgary had drafted really well but having guys like Tkachuk, Fox and Gaudreau want out, plus Monahan's career derailed by injuries makes it look worse. Valimaki Tkachuk Dube Fox Andersson Kylington Magiapane Bennett Monahan Kulak Gaudreau Brodie Backlund plus prospects Wolf Zary Pelletier Coronato, I would say they have been above average at drafting. Sutter was an effective coach early on but that seemed to fade pretty quick last year. He is the type of coach that after a year or two it's no longer fun to play or go to the rink and it gets toxic. Tortorella is the same way.
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Post by Score on Jun 23, 2023 10:40:20 GMT -4
I see them picking at the #4 spot and taking Smith. What do you expect them to trade to move to 4th? 31st OA pick? Swap 4 for 5....and a pick, other then the 31st. Hughes wants Smith. If they take the Russian, I wouldn't be against it...I just really feel Huges wants Smith.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2023 10:43:29 GMT -4
What do you expect them to trade to move to 4th? 31st OA pick? Swap 4 for 5....and a pick, other then the 31st. Hughes wants Smith. If they take the Russian, I wouldn't be against it...I just really feel Huges wants Smith. I try and not over think it, I would stay at 5 unless the cost is only a 2nd rounder...and take whichever player in the group of 5 that slides, likely Smith or Michkov. Nothing against the group from 6-12/13 but according to most scouts, McKenzie said it also, there is a big drop. If the biggest downside with MM is he doesn't come for 3 years, no big deal, not like they are on the cusp of contending, plus you have him on an ELC at 21-22-23 in seasons where you want to get in the playoffs and contend.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 11:26:40 GMT -4
Calgary isn't the same market it was 10 or 20 years ago. If you're a player and going to sign somewhere for the next 2-8 years would you want to say there? It's an average core with some questionable pieces signed to long term deals. Not only no real top prospects coming through but the coach they just had also refused to even try and develop the youth and actually took turns shitting on the prospects and the media wanting to play them. There's an entire new GM and coach. But with what experience and winning pedigree? If I don't google who their coach is right now....I really have no idea who it even is. Then I look around the West and see either teams in their prime or approaching it with elite players or young teams with a group of young kids where the entire top 5 is better then anything Calgary has in the system. Until they figure out how to draft and develop and get the new rink in place Calgary is not a great market for a player wanting to win right now. I think Calgary had drafted really well but having guys like Tkachuk, Fox and Gaudreau want out, plus Monahan's career derailed by injuries makes it look worse. Valimaki Tkachuk Dube Fox Andersson Kylington Magiapane Bennett Monahan Kulak Gaudreau Brodie Backlund plus prospects Wolf Zary Pelletier Coronato, I would say they have been above average at drafting. Sutter was an effective coach early on but that seemed to fade pretty quick last year. He is the type of coach that after a year or two it's no longer fun to play or go to the rink and it gets toxic. Tortorella is the same way. You had to go back 16 years to name all those guys. Tkachuk, Fox, and Gaudreau are the 3 key guys. Fox never was signing there. Tkachuk left before his prime. Of the rest there isn't 1 big difference marker. A 20 goal scorer, maybe a top 4 D...and going forward Huberdeau and Kadri are 2/3 of their top line. I don't see that intimidating anyone.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2023 11:37:43 GMT -4
I think Calgary had drafted really well but having guys like Tkachuk, Fox and Gaudreau want out, plus Monahan's career derailed by injuries makes it look worse. Valimaki Tkachuk Dube Fox Andersson Kylington Magiapane Bennett Monahan Kulak Gaudreau Brodie Backlund plus prospects Wolf Zary Pelletier Coronato, I would say they have been above average at drafting. Sutter was an effective coach early on but that seemed to fade pretty quick last year. He is the type of coach that after a year or two it's no longer fun to play or go to the rink and it gets toxic. Tortorella is the same way. You had to go back 16 years to name all those guys. Tkachuk, Fox, and Gaudreau are the 3 key guys. Fox never was signing there. Tkachuk left before his prime. Of the rest there isn't 1 big difference marker. A 20 goal scorer, maybe a top 4 D...and going forward Huberdeau and Kadri are 2/3 of their top line. I don't see that intimidating anyone. I went back far enough to cover active NHLers. 16 years means the older guys are 34, there are many older guys in the NHL. The fact that Tkachuk Gaudreau and Fox left is not on poor drafting, just making a point that their issues are not on the scouting side.
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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 23, 2023 13:57:17 GMT -4
You had to go back 16 years to name all those guys. Tkachuk, Fox, and Gaudreau are the 3 key guys. Fox never was signing there. Tkachuk left before his prime. Of the rest there isn't 1 big difference marker. A 20 goal scorer, maybe a top 4 D...and going forward Huberdeau and Kadri are 2/3 of their top line. I don't see that intimidating anyone. I went back far enough to cover active NHLers. 16 years means the older guys are 34, there are many older guys in the NHL. The fact that Tkachuk Gaudreau and Fox left is not on poor drafting, just making a point that their issues are not on the scouting side. The tough part is, I can’t blame any of those guys for wanting to leave. I could move to Calgary and I choose not too, these guys are going to get just as much money anywhere they play and they don’t have to do it in Calgary… you can’t fix the location but that’s at the crux of the issue for Calgary I think.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 13:57:31 GMT -4
You had to go back 16 years to name all those guys. Tkachuk, Fox, and Gaudreau are the 3 key guys. Fox never was signing there. Tkachuk left before his prime. Of the rest there isn't 1 big difference marker. A 20 goal scorer, maybe a top 4 D...and going forward Huberdeau and Kadri are 2/3 of their top line. I don't see that intimidating anyone. I went back far enough to cover active NHLers. 16 years means the older guys are 34, there are many older guys in the NHL. The fact that Tkachuk Gaudreau and Fox left is not on poor drafting, just making a point that their issues are not on the scouting side. Gaudreau was drafted 12 years ago. Tkachuk and Fox 7 years ago. All 3 of these guys are a full year removed. Who have they drafted in the last 7 drafts to support a claim that they draft well? Using your logic Pittsburgh must be the best drafting team. 3 Cup champs on the roster from the 2004 and 2005 drafts.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2023 14:17:29 GMT -4
I went back far enough to cover active NHLers. 16 years means the older guys are 34, there are many older guys in the NHL. The fact that Tkachuk Gaudreau and Fox left is not on poor drafting, just making a point that their issues are not on the scouting side. The tough part is, I can’t blame any of those guys for wanting to leave. I could move to Calgary and I choose not too, these guys are going to get just as much money anywhere they play and they don’t have to do it in Calgary… you can’t fix the location but that’s at the crux of the issue for Calgary I think. I think the city is a good place to stay, not a place of mass NHL exodus like Winnipeg. I think Sutter's style wore on people and it leads to guys wanting out as they know the core is moving on, a sort of domino effect
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jun 23, 2023 14:24:13 GMT -4
I went back far enough to cover active NHLers. 16 years means the older guys are 34, there are many older guys in the NHL. The fact that Tkachuk Gaudreau and Fox left is not on poor drafting, just making a point that their issues are not on the scouting side. Gaudreau was drafted 12 years ago. Tkachuk and Fox 7 years ago. All 3 of these guys are a full year removed. Who have they drafted in the last 7 drafts to support a claim that they draft well? Using your logic Pittsburgh must be the best drafting team. 3 Cup champs on the roster from the 2004 and 2005 drafts. Coronato Zary Wolf and Pelletier look like very good picks, but all are quite recent and Sutter is notorious for not trusting kids. Those are 2019-2021 picks. 2017 and 2018 they only had one top 3 pick, Valimaki who put up 34 points in Arizona last year. 2016 they drafted Tkachuk Fox and Dube in the top 3 rounds, I would call that a pretty big success. 2015 they got Magiapane Andersson and Kylington despite having no 1st rounder When evaluating darft picks, you have to start 3-4 years back as non top 5-10 picks usually only make the NHL full time at 22-23 years old.
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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 23, 2023 14:26:52 GMT -4
I went back far enough to cover active NHLers. 16 years means the older guys are 34, there are many older guys in the NHL. The fact that Tkachuk Gaudreau and Fox left is not on poor drafting, just making a point that their issues are not on the scouting side. Gaudreau was drafted 12 years ago. Tkachuk and Fox 7 years ago. All 3 of these guys are a full year removed. Who have they drafted in the last 7 drafts to support a claim that they draft well? Using your logic Pittsburgh must be the best drafting team. 3 Cup champs on the roster from the 2004 and 2005 drafts. Draft well is a hard thing to describe… is it about hitting/churning out superstars or does churning out solid NHLers get you there? I’m not saying Calgary has done either but drafting well is all relative to what you have for picks and where you consistently pick IMO. Valimaki had a nice season albeit not in Calgary but he was a 1st round pick. Ruzicka looks like he can be a solid top 9 guy based on last year, if he can play a full season he was a 4th rounder. Dustin Wolf has proven nothing but I think he’s a really good pick for a 7th rounder. I think Jakob Pelletier is an NHLer and they grabbed him with a late 1st. Jeremie Poirier had a very successful 1st season in the AHL and they got him with a 3rd. Yan Kuznetsov is the same deal as Poirier, only they took him with a 2nd. Conor Zary another late 1st pick from the 2020 draft appears to be knocking on the door of the NHL. Matt Coronato was a lottery pick but he he’s had 2 successful seasons at Harvard and likely isn’t far off from being an NHL player. Now I’ve picked out 8 names of the 31 they drafted, some not established NHLers, some may never become that but is 8 of 31 guys with legitimate NHL potential bad? Now a lot of names you can write off, we know they’ll never amount to anything but that’s going to be common around the league. Anything from 2020-2022 is too soon to make any judgment on, probably the same with 2019 if we’re being fair. The only drafts I think you can really make a judgment on since the Tkachuk draft is 2017 and 2018, those guys are probably NHLers by now or likely never will be impact ones.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 14:38:01 GMT -4
Coronato Zary Wolf and Pelletier look like very good picks, but all are quite recent and Sutter is notorious for not trusting kids. Those are 2019-2021 picks. 2017 and 2018 they only had one top 3 pick, Valimaki who put up 34 points in Arizona last year. 2016 they drafted Tkachuk Fox and Dube in the top 3 rounds, I would call that a pretty big success. 2015 they got Magiapane Andersson and Kylington despite having no 1st rounder When evaluating darft picks, you have to start 3-4 years back as non top 5-10 picks usually only make the NHL full time at 22-23 years old. Zary is a very good pick? I'll just take your word for it. You're just using subjective terms with no real meaning. Very good to me would indicate that you'd have them as a top 10 prospect base or at least top 16. I don't see it.
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