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Post by BigTwig on Apr 5, 2024 8:56:53 GMT -4
Bring it back to the QMJHL ......the after the whistle stuff is happening more and more . * I most likely am gonna get roasted for this line of thinking ...... I am not alone in thinking this . I for one am very with you 100%! In my opinion the league says they want to help players become professional hockey players and reach their dreams of the NHL. The NHL currently has 82 games a year and could possibly rise with the buzz of expansion team and they also allow “fighting” in the league. But the Q banned fighting which like you said and I think everyone figured would happen is more after the whistle rough stuff and a bit more grease to the game because there’s no real punishment for your actions(yes I know you can get penalty). And they took 4 games a year out of the schedule going from 68 games to 64, almost 20 games less than the NHL plays plus add the longer travel times and practices. The Q fans getting 2 less home games a year I can’t see there being a price in the tickets decrease losing the two games I could see it going up with owners losing two games worth of revenue.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 5, 2024 9:22:20 GMT -4
Bring it back to the QMJHL ......the after the whistle stuff is happening more and more . * I most likely am gonna get roasted for this line of thinking ...... I am not alone in thinking this . I for one am very with you 100%! In my opinion the league says they want to help players become professional hockey players and reach their dreams of the NHL. The NHL currently has 82 games a year and could possibly rise with the buzz of expansion team and they also allow “fighting” in the league. But the Q banned fighting which like you said and I think everyone figured would happen is more after the whistle rough stuff and a bit more grease to the game because there’s no real punishment for your actions(yes I know you can get penalty). And they took 4 games a year out of the schedule going from 68 games to 64, almost 20 games less than the NHL plays plus add the longer travel times and practices. The Q fans getting 2 less home games a year I can’t see there being a price in the tickets decrease losing the two games I could see it going up with owners losing two games worth of revenue. I'll touch on a few points from my perspective of wanting a safer environment for all players after watching so many fighters of the past generation die young from suicide and substance abuse as much as nobody wants to address that fact in this overall discussion. #1 The league does help players become professionals. This isn't some debateable topic. Its a fact based on like 50 years of Q players being trained for the NHL. #2 Junior and College hockey have never had the same NHL rules. Every single hockey league puts their own spin on certain things. #3 (LOUD FOR THOSE WHO HATE THIS FACT:) The NCAA has never allowed fighting. Not once has anyone ever thought that prevented NCAA kids from being ready to play pro hockey. #4 the NCAA has never had a CHL schedule. The CHL has never had an NHL schedule. Getting teenagers ready for a career in hockey has nothing to do with them playing 80+ hockey games over 8 months. It is about proper training, nutrition, skills, talent. So many more things that a 60+ game CHL season absolutely does a great job preparing them for. #5 the old never measureable always "take my word for it..." comment on after the whistle shenanigans. What after whistle stuff is happening that is not not penalized yet the reason for needing fighting to deter it? How can anyone who has watched the sport for 10-20-30 years say there is more stuff now vs when fighting was allowed? #6 this just deserves its own point. The calmer this sport gets the more the fighting crowd sees any incident as a thing that is only there now because of hockey. There was more stick work WITH fighting. More after the whistle stuff WITH fighting. More brawls WITH fighting. More highly dangerous violent suspendable plays WITH fighting. #7 You are 100% allowed to want fighting. But my god just stop with this logic that it somehow removed these other things. We have like 100 years of hockey that documents literally the exact opposite. The more fighting is allowed the more dangerous things will happen and the more the short and long term health of hockey players is jeopardized. #8 The more fighting is allowed the more dangerous things will happen and the more the short and long term health of hockey players is jeopardized. #9 see point 8 #10 I am a hockey fan who still sees fighting all the time. Those sports are called boxing and MMA. #11 Belak. Simon. Boogard. Probert. I won't go on. It's like the 1980's WWF era. Ignore the reality and have another generation of athletes dead before they're 60 because of putting entertainment ahead of science, health, and common fucking sense.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Apr 5, 2024 9:41:37 GMT -4
I for one am very with you 100%! In my opinion the league says they want to help players become professional hockey players and reach their dreams of the NHL. The NHL currently has 82 games a year and could possibly rise with the buzz of expansion team and they also allow “fighting” in the league. But the Q banned fighting which like you said and I think everyone figured would happen is more after the whistle rough stuff and a bit more grease to the game because there’s no real punishment for your actions(yes I know you can get penalty). And they took 4 games a year out of the schedule going from 68 games to 64, almost 20 games less than the NHL plays plus add the longer travel times and practices. The Q fans getting 2 less home games a year I can’t see there being a price in the tickets decrease losing the two games I could see it going up with owners losing two games worth of revenue. I'll touch on a few points from my perspective of wanting a safer environment for all players after watching so many fighters of the past generation die young from suicide and substance abuse as much as nobody wants to address that fact in this overall discussion. #1 The league does help players become professionals. This isn't some debateable topic. Its a fact based on like 50 years of Q players being trained for the NHL. #2 Junior and College hockey have never had the same NHL rules. Every single hockey league puts their own spin on certain things. #3 (LOUD FOR THOSE WHO HATE THIS FACT:) The NCAA has never allowed fighting. Not once has anyone ever thought that prevented NCAA kids from being ready to play pro hockey. #4 the NCAA has never had a CHL schedule. The CHL has never had an NHL schedule. Getting teenagers ready for a career in hockey has nothing to do with them playing 80+ hockey games over 8 months. It is about proper training, nutrition, skills, talent. So many more things that a 60+ game CHL season absolutely does a great job preparing them for. #5 the old never measureable always "take my word for it..." comment on after the whistle shenanigans. What after whistle stuff is happening that is not not penalized yet the reason for needing fighting to deter it? How can anyone who has watched the sport for 10-20-30 years say there is more stuff now vs when fighting was allowed? #6 this just deserves its own point. The calmer this sport gets the more the fighting crowd sees any incident as a thing that is only there now because of hockey. There was more stick work WITH fighting. More after the whistle stuff WITH fighting. More brawls WITH fighting. More highly dangerous violent suspendable plays WITH fighting. #7 You are 100% allowed to want fighting. But my god just stop with this logic that it somehow removed these other things. We have like 100 years of hockey that documents literally the exact opposite. The more fighting is allowed the more dangerous things will happen and the more the short and long term health of hockey players is jeopardized. #8 The more fighting is allowed the more dangerous things will happen and the more the short and long term health of hockey players is jeopardized. #9 see point 8 #10 I am a hockey fan who still sees fighting all the time. Those sports are called boxing and MMA. #11 Belak. Simon. Boogard. Probert. I won't go on. It's like the 1980's WWF era. Ignore the reality and have another generation of athletes dead before they're 60 because of putting entertainment ahead of science, health, and common fucking sense. I think the point that having enforcers in the lineup eliminates cheap shots or runs at your top players has been proven false 1,000 times. Boston had a goon squad when Marc Savard was smoked in the head by Cooke, guys like that play that way because it's what puts them in the NHL so an enforcer on the other bench won't stop them. Nick Cousins is a greaseball, having a goon on the other team has not and will not stop his antics. In junior, a lot of times, the goons have instigate trouble, either late in one sided games or cheap shots. For all the talk of code, guys like McSorley, Bertuzzi and recently Rempe have been the ones perpetuating cheap shots, not keeping them out of the game. As much as I used to enjoy a game with a lot of fights, and still like the odd one, I can't help but think of the bran damage cause to those that have done it the last 40 years. More specifically those that fight 20-30 times a year vs big behemoths, not the guy with 5-10 career fights vs other regular players.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 5, 2024 9:48:04 GMT -4
I think the point that having enforcers in the lineup eliminates cheap shots or runs at your top players has been proven false 1,000 times. Boston had a goon squad when Marc Savard was smoked in the head by Cooke, guys like that play that way because it's what puts them in the NHL so an enforcer on the other bench won't stop them. Nick Cousins is a greaseball, having a goon on the other team has not and will not stop his antics. In junior, a lot of times, the goons have instigate trouble, either late in one sided games or cheap shots. For all the talk of code, guys like McSorley, Bertuzzi and recently Rempe have been the ones perpetuating cheap shots, not keeping them out of the game. As much as I used to enjoy a game with a lot of fights, and still like the odd one, I can't help but think of the bran damage cause to those that have done it the last 40 years. More specifically those that fight 20-30 times a year vs big behemoths, not the guy with 5-10 career fights vs other regular players. I think where most fans can align is that most still agree that there is the scenario that exists within the NHL game where it makes sense to allow 2 guys to fight without being kicked out of a game. But what those scenario's are now depends on what era you grew up in in terms of how you view them regarding fighting. 2 guys battling it out and in the heat of the moment end up in a fight. Ok 5 each. The guy fighting 20 times a year? I no longer see any room in the game for that in my opinion. Give that guy suspensions for every fight past 4 or 5. Bobby McMann wants to fight a Brendan Gallagher? Great. The Rempel's? The Reaves? Only existing to fight other fighters. No real impact to the success of the team. Their presence only elevates the other dirtiness when they're involved. No reason those guys shouldn't be suspended simply for fighting no different then too many suspendable hits will make my next one worth more games.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Apr 5, 2024 10:00:06 GMT -4
I think the point that having enforcers in the lineup eliminates cheap shots or runs at your top players has been proven false 1,000 times. Boston had a goon squad when Marc Savard was smoked in the head by Cooke, guys like that play that way because it's what puts them in the NHL so an enforcer on the other bench won't stop them. Nick Cousins is a greaseball, having a goon on the other team has not and will not stop his antics. In junior, a lot of times, the goons have instigate trouble, either late in one sided games or cheap shots. For all the talk of code, guys like McSorley, Bertuzzi and recently Rempe have been the ones perpetuating cheap shots, not keeping them out of the game. As much as I used to enjoy a game with a lot of fights, and still like the odd one, I can't help but think of the bran damage cause to those that have done it the last 40 years. More specifically those that fight 20-30 times a year vs big behemoths, not the guy with 5-10 career fights vs other regular players. I think where most fans can align is that most still agree that there is the scenario that exists within the NHL game where it makes sense to allow 2 guys to fight without being kicked out of a game. But what those scenario's are now depends on what era you grew up in in terms of how you view them regarding fighting. 2 guys battling it out and in the heat of the moment end up in a fight. Ok 5 each. The guy fighting 20 times a year? I no longer see any room in the game for that in my opinion. Give that guy suspensions for every fight past 4 or 5. Bobby McMann wants to fight a Brendan Gallagher? Great. The Rempel's? The Reaves? Only existing to fight other fighters. No real impact to the success of the team. Their presence only elevates the other dirtiness when they're involved. No reason those guys shouldn't be suspended simply for fighting no different then too many suspendable hits will make my next one worth more games. I think you bring up a good point, the OHL has used the cumulative fight suspension rule, I think after 5 you miss a game. They did that 6-7 years ago. I could see a point where they throw out guys after a fight, similar to current Q rules. I think we are a long ways from the CIS/NCAA rule where you get thrown out AND suspended. They could also have a rule on staged fights, I'm all for two guy battling and it escalates into a fight, the staged fights accomplish nothing.
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Post by lirette on Apr 5, 2024 10:24:46 GMT -4
I find that its two different discussions with fighting in junior and fighting in the NHL. Everything is about risk/reward when it comes to this discussion.
Guys getting potential brain damage from punches to the head at 16, 17, 18 etc. when they have a less than 1% chance of even making the NHL and playing in front of a few thousand fans for free simply isn't worth the trade off even if the players themselves want to. Look at Lane Hinkley this season for example. I understand the kid says he has no regrets but doesn't the sport have some responsibility to protect these kids from scenarios where they are told by their doctor they could have early dementia?
Watching this season it was definitely abit awkward because there were moments in games where a fight would normally happen and the players kind of just say "you want to go??" and then skate away or just grab each other. Despite acknowledging the awkwardness it creates I'm still not really convinced having fighting become more encouraged is the answer. I wished it was more from the league and less from the government in terms of the rule change but its hard to imagine it being undone now.
With the NHL guys are getting paid 6-7 figures and are in their 20's & 30's and I'm more comfortable with the fact that they are making their own decision to do so. I prefer the NHL continue to do whatever it can to promote skill and offense but also accept that its highly unlikely you see any rule changes for fighting in the NHL in the next 5-10 years. I just dont see the appetite for it the way it is with the younger leagues.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Apr 5, 2024 10:29:06 GMT -4
I find that its two different discussions with fighting in junior and fighting in the NHL. Everything is about risk/reward when it comes to this discussion. Guys getting potential brain damage from punches to the head at 16, 17, 18 etc. when they have a less than 1% chance of even making the NHL and playing in front of a few thousand fans for free simply isn't worth the trade off even if the players themselves want to. Look at Lane Hinkley this season for example. I understand the kid says he has no regrets but doesn't the sport have some responsibility to protect these kids from scenarios where they are told by their doctor they could have early dementia? Watching this season it was definitely abit awkward because there were moments in games where a fight would normally happen and the players kind of just say "you want to go??" and then skate away or just grab each other. Despite acknowledging the awkwardness it creates I'm still not really convinced having fighting become more encouraged is the answer. I wished it was more from the league and less from the government in terms of the rule change but its hard to imagine it being undone now. With the NHL guys are getting paid 6-7 figures and are in their 20's & 30's and I'm more comfortable with the fact that they are making their own decision to do so. I prefer the NHL continue to do whatever it can to promote skill and offense but also accept that its highly unlikely you see any rule changes for fighting in the NHL in the next 5-10 years. I just dont see the appetite for it the way it is with the younger leagues. Even guys in their 20's and 30's need to be protected from themselves. The macho culture and athletes invincibility mentality gets them to do things that might take years or decades off their lives to "protect teammates" or whatever.
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Post by Score on Apr 10, 2024 11:43:16 GMT -4
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 10, 2024 12:55:44 GMT -4
Seravelli tweeted this a couple of days ago. Constantly local politicians clashing with whoever owns that team.
Just move the damn team lol
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Post by Score on Apr 10, 2024 15:10:08 GMT -4
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Post by Score on Apr 10, 2024 16:21:01 GMT -4
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Post by hal on Apr 11, 2024 6:32:17 GMT -4
..........and just like Atlanta ........10 years from now ......they will be on a short list for an Expansion Franchise or move because of the City of Phoenix and surrounding area being such a Huge Market .....History be damned .
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Post by hal on Apr 11, 2024 6:51:02 GMT -4
Just seen on Sportsnet that if some Gazillionaire can build a New Arena that the League plans on Expansion in the Next 5 Years that Phoenix will be at the Top of the List . Apparently the Owners are not sick of the Coyotes .......just Mullett Arena and will go back there . Man that Weasel Bettman is one Stubborn Man .......funny how $$$$$$ makes everything hurt a little less . The NHL is gonna give the current Coyotes Owner 1 Billion Dollars .....then sell it to the Utah Jazz guy for 1.3 Billion and the Owners will share the .3 part as a form of Pain and Suffering for putting up with this Franchise ......so they will receive less than 10 Million each to keep quiet until the Expansion Money roles in down the Road .
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 11, 2024 8:19:48 GMT -4
Just seen on Sportsnet that if some Gazillionaire can build a New Arena that the League plans on Expansion in the Next 5 Years that Phoenix will be at the Top of the List . Apparently the Owners are not sick of the Coyotes .......just Mullett Arena and will go back there . Man that Weasel Bettman is one Stubborn Man .......funny how $$$$$$ makes everything hurt a little less . The NHL is gonna give the current Coyotes Owner 1 Billion Dollars .....then sell it to the Utah Jazz guy for 1.3 Billion and the Owners will share the .3 part as a form of Pain and Suffering for putting up with this Franchise ......so they will receive less than 10 Million each to keep quiet until the Expansion Money roles in down the Road . So after 25 years of no arena being built we're just going to constantly go back to this well every 5 years or so hoping for some political change. I'll just never wrap my head around the logic of forcing your presence in a market that does not want you while markets who would flourish (in comparison to this one) sit with empty arenas in hockey crazed countries. While we praise the commissioner for growing the business over 30 years while ignoring the mistakes and all the money he's left on the table by going into certain southern American markets and getting ready to do one for a 3rd time and already ready to go back to Arizona with no real fan base built after a generation while Quebec WITH AN ARENA BUILT can't get a 2nd chance.
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Post by Smiley on Apr 11, 2024 9:44:03 GMT -4
Just seen on Sportsnet that if some Gazillionaire can build a New Arena that the League plans on Expansion in the Next 5 Years that Phoenix will be at the Top of the List . Apparently the Owners are not sick of the Coyotes .......just Mullett Arena and will go back there . Man that Weasel Bettman is one Stubborn Man .......funny how $$$$$$ makes everything hurt a little less . The NHL is gonna give the current Coyotes Owner 1 Billion Dollars .....then sell it to the Utah Jazz guy for 1.3 Billion and the Owners will share the .3 part as a form of Pain and Suffering for putting up with this Franchise ......so they will receive less than 10 Million each to keep quiet until the Expansion Money roles in down the Road . So after 25 years of no arena being built we're just going to constantly go back to this well every 5 years or so hoping for some political change. I'll just never wrap my head around the logic of forcing your presence in a market that does not want you while markets who would flourish (in comparison to this one) sit with empty arenas in hockey crazed countries. While we praise the commissioner for growing the business over 30 years while ignoring the mistakes and all the money he's left on the table by going into certain southern American markets and getting ready to do one for a 3rd time and already ready to go back to Arizona with no real fan base built after a generation while Quebec WITH AN ARENA BUILT can't get a 2nd chance. Winnipeg right now is killing any chance of another Canadian team. Besides Arizona, they are averaging the lowest attendance in the league, and lower than Arizona was averaging before moving to Mullet Arena. Winnipeg a top contender in a hockey mad country is averaging lower than San Jose who are actively trying to lose. When you look at San Jose and see the empty arena you would wonder how they are averaging a higher attendance. It is because of Corporate. Quebec City has a corporate issue as well. Winnipeg doesn't have the corporate following that these huge markets have. So yes the NHL wants to maximize revenue and corporate tickets give you a stable base that is not fickle and you can count on. Arizona, Atlanta is the #7 market in the US, while Phoenix is #11 - both with massive corporate support. I actually think Atlanta could make a go of it, but last time they played in a Basketball arena in a horrible spot. With a rink in the Burbs it "could" work. Phoenix has been horribly run but the NHL should have cut bait a long time ago because they weren't well run to make a market. Unlike the Tampa's, Dallas, California teams and now Florida. Sadly, Arizona now does look like a better run team and should be good in a couple of years...which Utah will reap the benefits. Would I love to see Quebec City get a team - hell yea. But Hamilton probably has a better chance but the Leafs and Sabres would never allow it.
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