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Post by statsman18 on Nov 7, 2023 14:38:51 GMT -4
This thread needed to be started. So far in the thread one thing that people just are ignoring for some reason is no trades agreements. This needs to be talked about. In the very first post Kilfoil’s name came up as a possible asset. There’s zero chance he’s traded this year with all the background stuff around the draft. There’s no way he comes here with out a no trade deal. Other players to look at that would have no trades would be Phillips and maybe Peitzsche. Peitzsche however I would think doesn’t. He was the teams 2nd pick and maybe was able to negotiate one but he wasn’t a NCAA guy and was taken right around his scouting rating.
As much as fans will hate this the player teams are probably going to ask for is Levesque. He’s a player who definitely doesn’t have a no trade connected to him and has shown he’s a Q talent. Obviously he’s not top of teams list but he’s probably top of teams list that Cam can freely trade. In saying that I think Levesque, Fontaine and Peitzsche are guys that might not be with this team after the deadline. Another name I wonder about is Martin. I think teams might ask about him and if push comes to shove depending on the player coming here Cam might have to do it.
I have said multiple times that 2 20yo forwards are priority number 1. I stand by that and I think to get one of those 20yos I think Levesque will be going the other way. I have also said a backup goalie is needed and I still think that because IMO Milner is not Q caliber. I think that is agreed by most here now too. Once again IMO those 3 positions are a must. After that, then and only if it is in the cards maybe look at an upgrade on defence too. I have nothing behind this but I also think Cam brings in a Boucher type free agent.
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Post by trueblue on Nov 7, 2023 14:39:20 GMT -4
I'd be fine with Cam unloading the pick bank over the holidays, as I think we can recoup enough when we (eventually) trade Rousseau, Vidicek, Cataford, and MacKinnon. The four of them should bring back a minimum value of 8 first/second round picks, possibly more. Look at what was paid for Ethan Gauthier and Antonin Verreault this summer. And remember that the Q is hosting the Memorial Cup as well which always means more buyers.
The Peitzche/Fontaine/Ponzetto discussion is interesting and I think presents a bit of a crossroads for Cam. If you look at the makeup of the roster and do a little projection, 2025/2026 could be an interesting year. Our 06 group is looking quite strong with Phillips and Levesque as the shining stars, but the aforementioned trio all have interesting potential. Moser and MacKenize are nothing special, but should be able to hold down roster spots in the Q based on their play so far. You'd have an 18-year-old Kilfoil who should be NHL drafted and hitting his stride as one of the best forwards in the league, and a potential homegrown overage duo of Crosby and Martin. Milner and Todd would be eligible as well but you might want to upgrade that last 20 slot.
I guess what I'm trying to say in my crystal ball is that you'd love to hang on to that group of 06s if at all possible. Give them a taste of playoff experience (as 4th liners or rotational players), sell hard next season and give them a bunch of ice time, and see if you have something worth cooking with when Christmas 2025 rolls around.
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Post by trueblue on Nov 7, 2023 14:46:58 GMT -4
Cam Russell has been very consistent with his approaches. He hasn't paid futures for star players. Even in 2013 and the 2019 Memorial Cup year, he has steered clear of that avenue. There have been multiple occasions where the general consensus said Halifax didn't spend enough, and he still hasn't used futures to his advantage. I get the feeling this year will be no exception. Cam is conservative and calculated. Cares a lot about the dynamic in the room. Loves to draft and develop. He's never been one wheel and deal in a Sylvain Coutourier type way and I don't see him starting now. I have nothing behind this but I also think Cam brings in a Boucher type free agent. This would be an absolute godsend.
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Post by Citris on Nov 7, 2023 15:27:46 GMT -4
I have said multiple times that 2 20yo forwards are priority number 1. I stand by that and I think to get one of those 20yos I think Levesque will be going the other way. I have also said a backup goalie is needed and I still think that because IMO Milner is not Q caliber. I think that is agreed by most here now too. Once again IMO those 3 positions are a must. After that, then and only if it is in the cards maybe look at an upgrade on defence too. I have nothing behind this but I also think Cam brings in a Boucher type free agent. You don't break the bank on a backup goalie. You could probably find a guy from Ontario to bring in for free, but backup goalies don't go for top assets generally.
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Post by Briwhel on Nov 7, 2023 15:31:14 GMT -4
I have said multiple times that 2 20yo forwards are priority number 1. I stand by that and I think to get one of those 20yos I think Levesque will be going the other way. I have also said a backup goalie is needed and I still think that because IMO Milner is not Q caliber. I think that is agreed by most here now too. Once again IMO those 3 positions are a must. After that, then and only if it is in the cards maybe look at an upgrade on defence too. I have nothing behind this but I also think Cam brings in a Boucher type free agent. You don't break the bank on a backup goalie. You could probably find a guy from Ontario to bring in for free, but backup goalies don't go for top assets generally. With how he's played (and how Keller has played), I'm sure that you could get Fleming from Bathurst for a pick. And if not, Mathis Lussier in VDO is likely to be available at Christmas (especially if Blackburn is ready to come back).
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 7, 2023 15:34:48 GMT -4
My Option 2. That comes with my Option 1 in the first page Reynolds | Vidicek | Dumais Cataford | Robidas | Crosby Levesque | Henneberry | Kilfoil Peitzsche | Todd | MacPhee Ponzetto Moser not necessarily in that order. A diamond in the rough player like Evan Boucher would be unbelievable. But we made those scout hires for a reason. So you’re dying for someone to react to your trade proposals and I’ll bite. No! Let’s start with Robidas. Why do you think he’s coming back? The whole Robidas talk started and came from a Quebec poster. He knows Quebec needs trade assets to star the rebuild and is grasping at straws. If the Canes best minor league team is an ECHL team then why wouldn’t they want him there? He’s doing fine there so why change that? He has nothing to prove here anymore. He’s better off playing men. Now in saying all that sure there’s a chance but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Next in your first post you named guys like Laplante, Makinen, and Naserddine as assets. They have zero to no value in trade talks. One guys was literally the 2nd last pick in the draft, another got cut twice by a team and the other is totally a crap shoot if he ever plays a game in the league. Look I know your profile says your new but we know you deleted one profile and just started a new one. You should know these things by now. I get you want this team to be a powerhouse but Cam doesn’t have a lot to work with when it comes to trades. You have to give to get and he can add just he has to prioritize what he needs and target that.
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Post by statsman18 on Nov 7, 2023 16:04:00 GMT -4
I have said multiple times that 2 20yo forwards are priority number 1. I stand by that and I think to get one of those 20yos I think Levesque will be going the other way. I have also said a backup goalie is needed and I still think that because IMO Milner is not Q caliber. I think that is agreed by most here now too. Once again IMO those 3 positions are a must. After that, then and only if it is in the cards maybe look at an upgrade on defence too. I have nothing behind this but I also think Cam brings in a Boucher type free agent. You don't break the bank on a backup goalie. You could probably find a guy from Ontario to bring in for free, but backup goalies don't go for top assets generally. I agree and backup that can take some pressure off Rousseau shouldn’t be expensive, it’s just there’s not a lot in those cupboards. Let’s say 2 new 20’s come in my guess is that will cost Levesque, 2025/26 1st round picks, 2025/26 2nd round picks and maybe their 2024 3rd rounder. Maybe only maybe Schultz as a future too. He for some reason I think might be available in a futures trade. So if a team will trade a backup for some 4th rounders then there’s really nothing left to get another defender with out dipping into the future talk.
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Post by scotiahockey on Nov 7, 2023 16:48:48 GMT -4
So you’re dying for someone to react to your trade proposals and I’ll bite. No! Let’s start with Robidas. Why do you think he’s coming back? The whole Robidas talk started and came from a Quebec poster. He knows Quebec needs trade assets to star the rebuild and is grasping at straws. If the Canes best minor league team is an ECHL team then why wouldn’t they want him there? He’s doing fine there so why change that? He has nothing to prove here anymore. He’s better off playing men. Now in saying all that sure there’s a chance but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Next in your first post you named guys like Laplante, Makinen, and Naserddine as assets. They have zero to no value in trade talks. One guys was literally the 2nd last pick in the draft, another got cut twice by a team and the other is totally a crap shoot if he ever plays a game in the league. Look I know your profile says your new but we know you deleted one profile and just started a new one. You should know these things by now. I get you want this team to be a powerhouse but Cam doesn’t have a lot to work with when it comes to trades. You have to give to get and he can add just he has to prioritize what he needs and target that. Jesus chill out, it’s all talk and fun. Never said I was the smartest in the room nor did I “die” for someone to react to my post. With all do respect on your end too Levesque is absolutely NOT going anywhere. I think that’s an absolutely ridiculous take. If anything I’d rather you out of anyone on this forum to not engage with my posts again. I don’t want to hear from you lol. It’s not really that ridiculous to see Levesque traded.. would I be surprised? Absolutely but you have to give to get, he’s a 17 YO who’s producing extremely well. If you want to go big game hunting, I can see an argument that he’s the most valuable young forward on the team (outside of Kilfoil but he’s not being traded) and teams are going to ask for him. Does that mean he’s traded? No it doesn’t but at some point, someone is going to ask about him and a tough decision might need to be made.
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Post by Citris on Nov 7, 2023 16:50:36 GMT -4
I agree and backup that can take some pressure off Rousseau shouldn’t be expensive, it’s just there’s not a lot in those cupboards. Let’s say 2 new 20’s come in my guess is that will cost Levesque, 2025/26 1st round picks, 2025/26 2nd round picks and maybe their 2024 3rd rounder. Maybe only maybe Schultz as a future too. He for some reason I think might be available in a futures trade. So if a team will trade a backup for some 4th rounders then there’s really nothing left to get another defender with out dipping into the future talk. Trading Levesque actively makes the team worse, like, this year.
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Post by howitzer on Nov 7, 2023 17:46:24 GMT -4
The difference 2 months makes. Levesque was on the fringe to make the team out of camp, and he's now a staple in the top 6 and a building block for the club's future lol. He's been absolutely amazing.
I highly, highly doubt he gets traded, but agree if a blockbuster deal is on the table, his name will be in the mix.
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Post by Briwhel on Nov 7, 2023 18:08:40 GMT -4
I agree and backup that can take some pressure off Rousseau shouldn’t be expensive, it’s just there’s not a lot in those cupboards. Let’s say 2 new 20’s come in my guess is that will cost Levesque, 2025/26 1st round picks, 2025/26 2nd round picks and maybe their 2024 3rd rounder. Maybe only maybe Schultz as a future too. He for some reason I think might be available in a futures trade. So if a team will trade a backup for some 4th rounders then there’s really nothing left to get another defender with out dipping into the future talk. Trading Levesque actively makes the team worse, like, this year. The last 16/17 year-old near PPG to be traded was Roy. Before Roy (asked to be traded), L'Heureux (high pick and part of the Groulx/MacIsaac deals) and Veleno (3rd season/AHL eligible at 19, making him a bad comparable), I can't think who the one before was.
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Post by howitzer on Nov 7, 2023 18:16:07 GMT -4
One variable in all this no one knows, is the Simons. What do they want to do? Do they want to go all-in? Will they be ok sacrificing a lot of future or giving up the likes of Cataford in a futures trade? Will they take a measured approach? Will they be conservative? We don't know.
They seem like smart, reasonable business people, so I'm sure they'll listen to Cam and his opinions (if they know what's good for them). But at the end of the day, they have the final say. I'm sure Cam didn't want to pull the Desnoyers to SJ deal, but Bobby made the final call, and the deal was nixed.
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Post by hfxfan2002 on Nov 7, 2023 18:28:19 GMT -4
One variable in all this no one knows, is the Simons. What do they want to do? Do they want to go all-in? Will they be ok sacrificing a lot of future or giving up the likes of Cataford in a futures trade? Will they take a measured approach? Will they be conservative? We don't know. They seem like smart, reasonable business people, so I'm sure they'll listen to Cam and his opinions (if they know what's good for them). But at the end of the day, they have the final say. I'm sure Cam didn't want to pull the Desnoyers to SJ deal, but Bobby made the final call, and the deal was nixed. It’s tough, I like the conservative option. The team is so age balanced. The possible questionable trait next season is our defence, losing both Furlong and Moravec, we have a ton of ‘06’s ready to step up. Vidicek and Rousseau might be back as 20’s, it’s hard because I would love to see them pull the trigger all in this year but then there’s next year to think about too.
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Post by nowuknow on Nov 7, 2023 19:00:35 GMT -4
One variable in all this no one knows, is the Simons. What do they want to do? Do they want to go all-in? Will they be ok sacrificing a lot of future or giving up the likes of Cataford in a futures trade? Will they take a measured approach? Will they be conservative? We don't know. They seem like smart, reasonable business people, so I'm sure they'll listen to Cam and his opinions (if they know what's good for them). But at the end of the day, they have the final say. I'm sure Cam didn't want to pull the Desnoyers to SJ deal, but Bobby made the final call, and the deal was nixed. It’s tough, I like the conservative option. The team is so age balanced. The possible questionable trait next season is our defence, losing both Furlong and Moravec, we have a ton of ‘06’s ready to step up. Vidicek and Rousseau might be back as 20’s, it’s hard because I would love to see them pull the trigger all in this year but then there’s next year to think about too. Good point about maybe going all in next year and contending for 3 years straight. Maybe they just use picks this year to get what they feel they need and then go all in next year with potentially Rousseau, Vidicek & Shultz as your 20 yr olds. You’ll still have Cataford, Makinnon, Martin, Crosby, Levesque, Peitzsche, Phillips & Killfoil.
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Post by trueblue on Nov 7, 2023 20:55:59 GMT -4
One variable in all this no one knows, is the Simons. What do they want to do? Do they want to go all-in? Will they be ok sacrificing a lot of future or giving up the likes of Cataford in a futures trade? Will they take a measured approach? Will they be conservative? We don't know. They seem like smart, reasonable business people, so I'm sure they'll listen to Cam and his opinions (if they know what's good for them). But at the end of the day, they have the final say. I'm sure Cam didn't want to pull the Desnoyers to SJ deal, but Bobby made the final call, and the deal was nixed. Regarding the Simons... I've said since the beginning that they will model the Mooseheads franchise off the gold standard that is the London Knights. www.hockeydb.com/stte/london-knights-6618.htmlTake a look at those winning percentages. They've only had two seasons below .600 since 03. Then most importantly, take a look at the attendance column. (Hint: that's where the money is made.) I have little doubt that the Simons are looking to replicate what the Hunter brothers have done in London, and that includes not really ever going "all in" and bottoming out. We've seen them put their money where their mouth is on the hockey ops side. Adding to the scouting staff as I predicted. Bringing in a HC that coached at the NHL level (read: not cheaping out). Don't think for a second that Kilfoil switches his commitment over the summer without us providing him with the absolute maximum that we were allowed to put in his recruitment package. I'm sure they are encouraging Cam to give this squad the best chance possible to win the Presidents Cup, but I doubt it will be at the expense of the future.
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