Now...or when?

[Score]

hockeyfan99 said:

admin said:

IMO, Deighan has outplayed Malouin to date...as a Q Rookie.

Clow has not seen enough ice time to say that either is better.....Though I would rather keep him as he is more offensivly gifted then Malouin.

I just have a difference of opinion. Overall I don't think Deighan has been better than Malouin although he has got more ice time.

I also think that both Clow & Malouin have better long term potential than Deighan. Just my opinion.

and that's fine. We all have different opinons on players.

For me, I see Deighan having more upside then Malouin.

Clow is a player that I do like. I just think for whatever reason he's not playing to his ability yet. As a 17yr old rookie, I feel that he needs to earn his ice time, but I do feel that he should be getting a few more chances to prove his worth.

[IslandersHKY]

bois said:

Here's what I would do if i had my say....

I would deal Morrison, Lessard and LaFleur for some 18's and picks and someones unwanted 20 ( to accept Morrison we likely take back the odd man out)

I would entertain offers for Walker and Latal but would only deal them if blown away

I would deal one of our 17 year old dmen (not named Southorn) for an 18 year old dman if possible.. if not for a high pick

I would ride Gelinas out and call up Mosher and give him some real playing time

I would play all our guys leftover not dealt in the housecleaning.. especially the local kids.. I would play a mistake prone style of game but one that would be entertaining to watch.. let the kids learn from their mistakes instead of being punished for them..

I would make sure we have another solid Euro lined up for next year.. not 17 tho.. preferably 18 but 19 would be fine too

I would make a trade at the draft this summer for an impact overager using some of the picks we stockpiled up on in dealing Morrison, Lessard, lafluer etc.. and by impact i mean Morrisonesque impact.. time will tell who that would be

I would make next year a real year to follow last years RN plan.. and then the year following we should be a legit contender IMO

you can not worry about who will possibly make the NHL.. you worry about that if/when it happens.. right now I have no fear of any of our players unexpectedly turning pro at 18 or 19

as for this year you still should make the playoffs while letting your kids grow and stamping the team as Guy's team...

as for selling tickets you use your gained free time by handing hockey operations over to Chouinard by concentrating on rebuilding your market thru corporate sponsors and showing some fan attachment... you put the hard working product on ice, show us you re planning, work in co-operation with people.. tickets will sell themselves

and while i was never a fan of Jean or keeping him as long as we did.. he can't be blamed for the complete lack of hockey planning this franchise has shown...

One thing I love Bois is that even when I disagree with you, your posts are so well thought through that I enjoy reading and responding to them.

And with that in mind here is my response to your well through through post.

If we firesaled like you suggest. Morrison would likely add a top 17 yr & and late first, Lessard would likely bring in a solid 17/18 yr old forward or a 2nd & 4th round pick (he hasn't been his best but low supply) and Lafleur is a bad opinion as he would be undervalued.

But if we did that move sure we add a some good young players and a few picks. But the rest of this season the probably play something like 20 - 32, they squeak into the playoffs for a first round loss and fan interest drops even move and the Rocket lose serious money this season which means they cut back on money (ie. 20 yr olds/Euros) for next season.

And IMO the only way that is worth it is if those new additions are ready to make a big impact next season and anything less than a few 3rd round playoff wins is considered a failure.


Instead here is what I would like to see. What I call tweaking moves something like:

1. We trade Malouin to Chicouitimi for Famure who is an 18 yr old forward with 11 pts in 18 games but all their forwards are underachiving and last season as a 17 yr old rookie his totals prorate to 30 goals and over 50 points (he could be that 2nd line player we need.

2. We trade Lachaine & a draft pick to Shawinigan for Bourque-Adam or Lacroix. Not sure the exact cost but Sha are deep in defense and need some offensive help. Both are a solid defenseman and only 18 so he would also help us next season.

3. Trade Cliche for hopefully a 6th. Still only an 18 yr old so a team like Quebec might take a chance on him.


That would give this team that following:

Walker-Morrison-Famure
Latal-Doyle-Kana
McKinley-Locke-Gallant
MacLean-CoonCome-Paynter
DesRoches

Lessard-Southorn
Gervais-AdamBourque
Main-Clow/Deighan

Now I am a big fan of both Lachaine & Malouin and would hate to see either of them move but those additions could help us this season and next even move.

One other move I would consider instead of Famure is:

Trading Cameron for Deighan plus a pick (I don't care if Cameron is from PEI just that next season will likely be his last in the Q and Moncton has 5 solid centres with all but Magnan returning next season so they could look to move one)


That team is one which should be a second round team and challenge to make it in the third. Also we added two solid players who combined should help us next season more than we subtracted.

[sharrow]

A truly sensible post by SCORE and one that deserves a lot of attention by the Rocket, just think what Morrison, Walker etc would bring in young talent. I think if Choiunard were to discuss this to the fans they would buy it and look forward to future success in the upcoming seasons.

[ilovremps]

I don't think Shawinigan will trade their top two dman this season. Both can be back next season and be a very good pairing of defenceman for a team like shawi plus I don't think Shawi will do some great transaction If they want to have the memorial cup next year. I saw the game tonight Shavi VS Chi, Bourque and Lacroix were the two best defenceman on the ice for both team. The only defenceman who may be could be trading at the transaction time is Sebastien Piche, but it's not 110% sure because maybe they look to next year to keep him as a 20 year.

Personnally, I don't think a team have a roster spot for a guy like Cliche who is unnable to skate on the fourth line. Val-D'Or ou Drummondville could be interest by him, only if he shows something then the other guys in their line could not show at this time of the year!

[bois]

HF if we could pull off the moves you suggested i'd be all for it.. however like iluvremps said I dont see that happening

I dont really see what Shawinigan would be interested in moving a very key piece of their future(especially when bidding for mem cup) for a marginal 3rd-4th linef like Lachaine

howvere f we could ever do it.. i'd be ecstatic

[masonw12]

I think if the ROCKET would go out and find a 20 year old D-Man that would be a leader on the blue line this would inprove the deffence and with this they have a shot at doing some damage

[reggiedunlop7]

Assuming the trade window opens the week of Dec. 17 that leaves the Rocket with 14 games to play before then with 7 of those against divisional opponents.

If the team has not made any headway in that time then the season is pretty much a no-go (some would say we're there now) and assets should be moved. If fans are told that the moves are made to solidify our lineup for the next couple of seasons it would show some resemblance of a plan.

Plus if we do make moves for a few 18-19 year olds, who's to say that they don't come in and help us this year? Could happen and remember to make the playoffs in this league you just have to be better than 1 team.

[wingman]

Yes but what team are they going to beat out for that playoff spot? The Sea Dogs aren't the cellar dwellers they used to be, and every team in this division is going to be a hard team to beat this season, no team is going to be able to rely on the expansion teams to finish last in the divison like they did the last few seasons. Every team in the division is going to have to pull out the stops to get into the playoffs, unlike before. If a team is caught taking too many losses at any time of the season and not making the moves to keep up with the other teams, then that team could very well wind up looking in from the outside when March rolls around.

[IslandersHKY]

reggiedunlop7 said:

Assuming the trade window opens the week of Dec. 17 that leaves the Rocket with 14 games to play before then with 7 of those against divisional opponents.

If the team has not made any headway in that time then the season is pretty much a no-go (some would say we're there now) and assets should be moved. If fans are told that the moves are made to solidify our lineup for the next couple of seasons it would show some resemblance of a plan.

Plus if we do make moves for a few 18-19 year olds, who's to say that they don't come in and help us this year? Could happen and remember to make the playoffs in this league you just have to be better than 1 team.

Teams looking to add experienced top talent normally move young prospects meaning good young 16 & 17 yr olds not yet making an impact generally not 18 & 19 yr old contributing players (Morrison being an exception).

So if the Rocket trade guys like Morrison & Lessard they would likely be moved for good young 16 & 17 yr olds. Likely good players but unlikely they will make a real impact this season at least not in any way compensating for what we lost.

And good point on how the Rocket have 14 gms left before the Dec 17 trading window to make a decision on their direction. Although I would argue they really only have 7 games left before a decision is really made.

Over the next 4 weeks the Rocket only play 7 games including 2 against Bathurst, 1 against Moncton and 1 against CB. Its a good opportunity for Chouinard to get in lots of practice time with this team and really assess how they measure up. And if by the end of Nov this team still hasn't really shown much signs of turning it around I expect they will/should conduct a firesale.

At this point I still think/hope the Rocket can turn things around and with a few minor moves really compete come playoff time. But if things haven't changed by the end of Nov I would very much be in support of breaking up this team. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

[SteveUL]

On the "trading Latal" discussion ... you could always swap Euros with a contending team that has a younger Euro they might look to upgrade. Halifax for example ... swap Latal for Knotek plus a pick. Thats an easier way to move a Euro ... and you can sweeten the pot with your 1st Euro pick for next year since you won't need it as you'll already have your full complement of Euros for next year.

If Moncton was contending this year I'd be all for a Latal for Bezak (18 YO) deal with picks in there to smooth out the value. Makes no sense for Moncton this year though ... just an example.

[Score]

steveul said:

On the "trading Latal" discussion ... you could always swap Euros with a contending team that has a younger Euro they might look to upgrade. Halifax for example ... swap Latal for Knotek plus a pick. Thats an easier way to move a Euro ... and you can sweeten the pot with your 1st Euro pick for next year since you won't need it as you'll already have your full complement of Euros for next year.

I for one would be all over that.

[coreyapple]

wingman said:

Yes but what team are they going to beat out for that playoff spot? The Sea Dogs aren't the cellar dwellers they used to be, and every team in this division is going to be a hard team to beat this season, no team is going to be able to rely on the expansion teams to finish last in the divison like they did the last few seasons. Every team in the division is going to have to pull out the stops to get into the playoffs, unlike before. If a team is caught taking too many losses at any time of the season and not making the moves to keep up with the other teams, then that team could very well wind up looking in from the outside when March rolls around.

I agree, it'll be difficult, but it's setting up a heart-pounding race for second-last place, isn't it?

Those battles for 16th place overall are the very best.

[bois]

admin said:

steveul said:

On the "trading Latal" discussion ... you could always swap Euros with a contending team that has a younger Euro they might look to upgrade. Halifax for example ... swap Latal for Knotek plus a pick. Thats an easier way to move a Euro ... and you can sweeten the pot with your 1st Euro pick for next year since you won't need it as you'll already have your full complement of Euros for next year.

I for one would be all over that.

moi aussi

[Score]

I feel that the best thing this team can do is sell at the deadline.

Pick up some 17/18 year old players, and hopefully sneak into the 2nd round of the playoffs by hard work.

I personally would have no problem selling the likes of:
Mo
Latal
Locke
Malouin
Cliche
Lafleur--I was keen on him staying with this team, but after thinking about it more, I think why not trade him? Gelinas has been playing well to date, and some think that Lafleur wont be back next season. They could get a backup in a deal and let Mosher continue to play in the MJAHL, or they could call Mosher up.

and IF the price was right.........Lessard. Only if they get a sweet, sweet deal though.

Selling Mo, Latal and Lafleur should be able to bring some good interest back.

I would keep Walker here though.

[bois]

We mostly agree.. except I tghink Lessard has to go if you are selling... he is the most prized commodity we have.. Lafleur maybe if he could pick his play up

Trading Morrison , Walker and Latal requires finding teams looking to change Euros or overagers.. limiting market.. tho any contender would proibably be interested in Morrison

I really cant see much interest in Locke, or Cliche

Malouin maybe

I'd add Lachaine to your list as well