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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 3, 2023 11:10:09 GMT -4
There is a condition on the 2025 pick. Anyone know what it is? Standard "if he plays as a 20yr old?"?? Quite likely, same for Plandowski. |
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Post by catzfans on Jan 3, 2023 11:29:18 GMT -4
More 1 foot in and 1 foot out for the Wildcats. I’m not sure what they were thinking on this trade
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 3, 2023 11:36:35 GMT -4
More 1 foot in and 1 foot out for the Wildcats. I’m not sure what they were thinking on this trade They turned Iasenza who was a 2.5 year player into two mid lineup 1.5 year players who will take up OA spots Next year. Would you rather still have Iasenza(18) or Plandowski(19) and Trenholm(19)? |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 3, 2023 11:45:01 GMT -4
Terrible asset management. Gabriel Sylvestre all over again. 1.5 year player FWIW and possible captain They already had that player on the roster and wearing the C in Daniel. Why waste assets on another? Their OA's will be two 3rd liners and a #4-5 D. |
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Post by lirette on Jan 3, 2023 11:58:44 GMT -4
More 1 foot in and 1 foot out for the Wildcats. I’m not sure what they were thinking on this trade Maybe I'm just in the minority here but I don't see how this is a sky is falling trade. Its not a great trade in but you can absolutely see the logic in the trade. When I first heard of this rumor I was thinking they'd trade the SJ 2nd and the 5th in 2023 they just added for him, so the price was higher than I'd like but not terrible. Its year 3 of the rebuild and there's not a ton of solid 20's that will be available next season. Take a look around the league at the 19's who are back, what teams they will be on and how many may be involved in futures deals already before you make an assessment. Rimouski is starting to play like how I expected them at the start of the year, and my guess is they'd like to try and finish 3rd ahead of them which would result is a a very winnable first round matchup and a better matchup against Halifax in the 2nd round who they've played well against this year. If they started going after Riley Kidney or Frederic Brunet I might agree with you. They have limited roster spots available next season, on D they will only lose Hamel. At FW they will graduate 2 20's and Barbashev and one of those slots likely gets filled with a new euro. Both goalies will be returning. So that gives you 2 or 3 max spots you can fill and you have 3 1st round picks, a 3rd, a 4th and a crap ton of middle round picks where they've had success recently. That doesn't even factor in they've had good success with FA's recently so its likely they'll add at least one roster player that route. I look at this from a much simpler view. -Added a 1st by trading from a position of strength (Iasenza) -Filled both open 20 year old slots (Plandowski/Trenholm) while adding some value to the team for this season without trading a 1st. There seems to be abit of a misconception that this team isn't scoring enough goals, if I told you they are currently scoring more goals per game than Victoriaville & Gatineau would you believe it? I think the bigger overall issue is team defense & Trenholm improves that. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 3, 2023 12:10:32 GMT -4
More 1 foot in and 1 foot out for the Wildcats. I’m not sure what they were thinking on this trade Maybe I'm just in the minority here but I don't see how this is a sky is falling trade. Its not a great trade in but you can absolutely see the logic in the trade. When I first heard of this rumor I was thinking they'd trade the SJ 2nd and the 5th in 2023 they just added for him, so the price was higher than I'd like but not terrible. Its year 3 of the rebuild and there's not a ton of solid 20's that will be available next season. Take a look around the league at the 19's who are back, what teams they will be on and how many may be involved in futures deals already before you make an assessment. Rimouski is starting to play like how I expected them at the start of the year, and my guess is they'd like to try and finish 3rd ahead of them which would result is a a very winnable first round matchup and a better matchup against Halifax in the 2nd round who they've played well against this year. If they started going after Riley Kidney or Frederic Brunet I might agree with you. They have limited roster spots available next season, on D they will only lose Hamel. At FW they will graduate 2 20's and Barbashev and one of those slots likely gets filled with a new euro. Both goalies will be returning. So that gives you 2 or 3 max spots you can fill and you have 3 1st round picks, a 3rd, a 4th and a crap ton of middle round picks where they've had success recently. That doesn't even factor in they've had good success with FA's recently so its likely they'll add at least one roster player that route. I look at this from a much simpler view. -Added a 1st by trading from a position of strength (Iasenza) -Filled both open 20 year old slots (Plandowski/Trenholm) while adding some value to the team for this season without trading a 1st. There seems to be abit of a misconception that this team isn't scoring enough goals, if I told you they are currently scoring more goals per game than Victoriaville & Gatineau would you believe it? I think the bigger overall issue is team defense & Trenholm improves that. 3 of their top 5 scorers are gone next year and the only forward you can say has impact skill is Loshing who gets knocked around and misses a lot of time. I think trading the equivalent of a 1st round pick for a grinder/defensive specialist to be an OA next year makes no sense, especially in a world where Daniel is already on the roster and pretty much the same player. Defense will improve as the young defense and rookie goalie have more experience, that's not a big concern. Lounsbury should also be a top 2 way C going forward. Taibel is more of a 2 way guy than high skill guy. |
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Post by lirette on Jan 3, 2023 12:16:46 GMT -4
Here's a fun exercise
Take a look at say the top 75 players in scoring and try to identify 19 year olds who will be back as 20's, not on teams that are looking to improve next season and not likely part of a futures deal. It requires some speculation, but for example Justin Gill is highly likely to end up a future.
Milo Roelens (41st in scoring, could be a future?)
Cole Huckins (53rd in scoring, not sure if Cats would really want him)
Mikael Denis (55th in scoring, I think BBA would rather keep him)
Israel Mianscum (64th in scoring, could be a future, only 5 more pts than Trenholm)
Nothing overly exciting, Roelens was a guy I was hoping they'd get as a future if they moved Barbashev to SHE for example.
Its fine to say what the team needs, but you need to also take the time to evaluate whats out there when assessing a trade in full.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 3, 2023 12:25:26 GMT -4
Here's a fun exercise Take a look at say the top 75 players in scoring and try to identify 19 year olds who will be back as 20's, not on teams that are looking to improve next season and not likely part of a futures deal. It requires some speculation, but for example Justin Gill is highly likely to end up a future. Milo Roelens (41st in scoring, could be a future?) Cole Huckins (53rd in scoring, not sure if Cats would really want him) Mikael Denis (55th in scoring, I think BBA would rather keep him) Israel Mianscum (64th in scoring, could be a future, only 5 more pts than Trenholm) Nothing overly exciting, Roelens was a guy I was hoping they'd get as a future if they moved Barbashev to SHE for example. Its fine to say what the team needs, but you need to also take the time to evaluate whats out there when assessing a trade in full. Trenholm is barely in the top 100!!! So because you are unsure which OA's will be available next year, you overpay for an OA that doesn't fill a need or make an impact? Halifax got Huard for an 8th round pick in the summer then when they decided to go all in they made a trade for an upgrade. Huard had 23 points in 30 games. The WC history of trading for OA's a year ahead of time is not good, starting with the Sylvestre deal, this looks like another one. |
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Post by Briwhel on Jan 3, 2023 13:06:38 GMT -4
Here's a fun exercise Take a look at say the top 75 players in scoring and try to identify 19 year olds who will be back as 20's, not on teams that are looking to improve next season and not likely part of a futures deal. It requires some speculation, but for example Justin Gill is highly likely to end up a future. Milo Roelens (41st in scoring, could be a future?) Cole Huckins (53rd in scoring, not sure if Cats would really want him) Mikael Denis (55th in scoring, I think BBA would rather keep him) Israel Mianscum (64th in scoring, could be a future, only 5 more pts than Trenholm) Nothing overly exciting, Roelens was a guy I was hoping they'd get as a future if they moved Barbashev to SHE for example. Its fine to say what the team needs, but you need to also take the time to evaluate whats out there when assessing a trade in full. Trenholm is barely in the top 100!!! So because you are unsure which OA's will be available next year, you overpay for an OA that doesn't fill a need or make an impact? Halifax got Huard for an 8th round pick in the summer then when they decided to go all in they made a trade for an upgrade. Huard had 23 points in 30 games. The WC history of trading for OA's a year ahead of time is not good, starting with the Sylvestre deal, this looks like another one. You're also looking at a guy who has no insulation and directly comparing him to guys who are playing with better lineups. |
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Post by chootoi on Jan 3, 2023 13:11:03 GMT -4
You're also looking at a guy who has no insulation and directly comparing him to guys who are playing with better lineups. Agreed. I'm still not a fan of this trade but Trenholm was PPG player in Dec on the worst team in the league and I think it's reasonable to believe he can continue to be that or at least very close the rest of this season and next. Daniel is a hard worker but he is not close to a PPG player. |
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Post by jimmy on Jan 4, 2023 11:12:04 GMT -4
For what it is worth, Trenholm is the kid brother of former Cat Nathan Welton ... so a homecoming of sorts for him ... he would have been a toddler back when his brother played.
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Post by lirette on Jan 4, 2023 11:24:28 GMT -4
So far
In
Connor Trenholm
Oscar Plandowski
1st, 2023
3rd , 2023
3rd, 2025
4th, 2024
5th, 2023
Out
Francesco Iasenza
Nicolas Pavan
2nd, 2023
2nd, 2025 - conditional
2nd, 2025 - conditional
5th, 2024
6th, 2023
7th, 2023
Draft picks going forward
2023: 1-1Vdo-1She-3-4-5Chi-6VIC-7Bac-8-8Blb-9-9CHI-10-11-12-13-14
2024: 1-2-3-4Vdo-6-6Sha-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14
2025: 1-3-3Vic-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14
As of today, in 2023 1st round they would pick 8th, 11th & 14th. Valdor is currently 4 pts ahead of dropping back into a lottery spot.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 4, 2023 11:26:14 GMT -4
So far In Connor Trenholm Oscar Plandowski 1st, 2023 3rd , 2023 3rd, 2025 4th, 2024 5th, 2023 Out Francesco Iasenza Nicolas Pavan 2nd, 2023 2nd, 2025 - conditional 2nd, 2025 - conditional 5th, 2024 6th, 2023 7th, 2023 Draft picks going forward 2023: 1-1Vdo-1She-3-4-5Chi-6VIC-7Bac-8-8Blb-9-9CHI-10-11-12-13-14 2024: 1-2-3-4Vdo-6-6Sha-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14 2025: 1-3-3Vic-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14 As of today, in 2023 1st round they would pick 8th, 11th & 14th. Valdor is currently 4 pts ahead of dropping back into a lottery spot. They are pretty much even in terms of picks and lost a year from Iasenza to Trenholm/Plandowski. |
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Post by jimmy on Jan 4, 2023 12:35:52 GMT -4
So far In Connor Trenholm Oscar Plandowski 1st, 2023 3rd , 2023 3rd, 2025 4th, 2024 5th, 2023 Out Francesco Iasenza Nicolas Pavan 2nd, 2023 2nd, 2025 - conditional 2nd, 2025 - conditional 5th, 2024 6th, 2023 7th, 2023 Draft picks going forward 2023: 1-1Vdo-1She-3-4-5Chi-6VIC-7Bac-8-8Blb-9-9CHI-10-11-12-13-14 2024: 1-2-3-4Vdo-6-6Sha-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14 2025: 1-3-3Vic-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14 As of today, in 2023 1st round they would pick 8th, 11th & 14th. Valdor is currently 4 pts ahead of dropping back into a lottery spot. They are pretty much even in terms of picks and lost a year from Iasenza to Trenholm/Plandowski. They didn't really lose a year - they now have two players rather than one ... so 1.5 years of Trenholm and Plandowski, vs. 2.5 of Iasenza alone. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jan 4, 2023 12:43:12 GMT -4
They are pretty much even in terms of picks and lost a year from Iasenza to Trenholm/Plandowski. They didn't really lose a year - they now have two players rather than one ... so 1.5 years of Trenholm and Plandowski, vs. 2.5 of Iasenza alone. They moved out Darcy and Pavan, both 19. I would rather have Iasenza at 19 next year and using Darcy as OA to start, you can always upgrade at midseason if you are going for it. OA is usually the cheapest way to add good players. Biakabutuko and McCallum are very good players and likely won't move because of OA spots being limited. Same with Lavallee Coulombe Hurtubise Bednar in nets, Allison up front. By adding 6 months before, you pay twice the price if not more. |
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