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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 23, 2023 13:53:35 GMT -4
JB, let's assume Squires, Houde, Shields, Patterson, Fullerton, Daigle, Lavoie, Ruccia, Campbell, Desjardins, Waugh, Euro Goalie, Ricard, Foley, etc. all show solid progression this year. Combined with players added like Newcombe, Schmidt, Shortall, Roy, Biggar, MacDonald, etc.. If this group can achieve 36-40 wins, is that not considered a solid rebuild? No two rebuilds are the same, especially when you factor in the 2021 pandemic draft, do we not have to give it this season to fully say it was, shitty, decent, good or great? I look thru teams in similar situations and I can't find one that has nailed it over the past 2 drafts (2021-2022) or has a rebuild going that I am envious of. Some will say Halifax, but the 2020 draft was soooo good it helps the 2021 look even better. I don't know, maybe I am out to lunch, but I think we are 7-9 months out from fully understanding this current re-build. Personally I don’t even see how you can call this a rebuild. This is stop gapping to put a “competitive” product on the ice, even though I don’t think there’s anyone out there that thinks this ends in a championship. You aren’t going to hit on every draft pick, you aren’t going to hit on every trade but when you’re trading/harming the development of young players that should be your core to go chase older players, who are the type of players you’d acquire to supplement a championship team, not the type you acquire to build around, you’re doing your “rebuild” wrong. They’ve bought players when they’re at the bottom of the league, now they’re going to buy players from the middle of the league and yet in all of the trades they haven’t bought one superstar player. In a league where you need star power to win, they’ve acquired virtually none but somehow I’m supposed to believe this team is going to be competitive with it ending in a championship or at least a realistic shot at one in 2024/25? |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 14:17:25 GMT -4
JB, let's assume Squires, Houde, Shields, Patterson, Fullerton, Daigle, Lavoie, Ruccia, Campbell, Desjardins, Waugh, Euro Goalie, Ricard, Foley, etc. all show solid progression this year. Combined with players added like Newcombe, Schmidt, Shortall, Roy, Biggar, MacDonald, etc.. If this group can achieve 36-40 wins, is that not considered a solid rebuild? No two rebuilds are the same, especially when you factor in the 2021 pandemic draft, do we not have to give it this season to fully say it was, shitty, decent, good or great? I look thru teams in similar situations and I can't find one that has nailed it over the past 2 drafts (2021-2022) or has a rebuild going that I am envious of. Some will say Halifax, but the 2020 draft was soooo good it helps the 2021 look even better. I don't know, maybe I am out to lunch, but I think we are 7-9 months out from fully understanding this current re-build. Personally I don’t even see how you can call this a rebuild. This is stop gapping to put a “competitive” product on the ice, even though I don’t think there’s anyone out there that thinks this ends in a championship. You aren’t going to hit on every draft pick, you aren’t going to hit on every trade but when you’re trading/harming the development of young players that should be your core to go chase older players, who are the type of players you’d acquire to supplement a championship team, not the type you acquire to build around, you’re doing your “rebuild” wrong. They’ve bought players when they’re at the bottom of the league, now they’re going to buy players from the middle of the league and yet in all of the trades they haven’t bought one superstar player. In a league where you need star power to win, they’ve acquired virtually none but somehow I’m supposed to believe this team is going to be competitive with it ending in a championship or at least a realistic shot at one in 2024/25? Bolded and increased the font on the key point so many are still missing. You don't trade a 1st and multiple 2nds and a top 16yr old for 2 18yr olds who are not among the best in the league. |
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Post by Briwhel on Jun 23, 2023 14:30:22 GMT -4
Personally I don’t even see how you can call this a rebuild. This is stop gapping to put a “competitive” product on the ice, even though I don’t think there’s anyone out there that thinks this ends in a championship. You aren’t going to hit on every draft pick, you aren’t going to hit on every trade but when you’re trading/harming the development of young players that should be your core to go chase older players, who are the type of players you’d acquire to supplement a championship team, not the type you acquire to build around, you’re doing your “rebuild” wrong. They’ve bought players when they’re at the bottom of the league, now they’re going to buy players from the middle of the league and yet in all of the trades they haven’t bought one superstar player. In a league where you need star power to win, they’ve acquired virtually none but somehow I’m supposed to believe this team is going to be competitive with it ending in a championship or at least a realistic shot at one in 2024/25? Bolded and increased the font on the key point so many are still missing. You don't trade a 1st and multiple 2nds and a top 16yr old for 2 18yr olds who are not among the best in the league. But then refuse to anti up when top of the league 18s could be available. Peddle requests a trade, CB doesn't want to pay. SJ's cycle isn't really around Burbidge, Collard goes to Moncton despite CB having more assets, etc etc |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2023 14:30:48 GMT -4
Personally I don’t even see how you can call this a rebuild. This is stop gapping to put a “competitive” product on the ice, even though I don’t think there’s anyone out there that thinks this ends in a championship. You aren’t going to hit on every draft pick, you aren’t going to hit on every trade but when you’re trading/harming the development of young players that should be your core to go chase older players, who are the type of players you’d acquire to supplement a championship team, not the type you acquire to build around, you’re doing your “rebuild” wrong. They’ve bought players when they’re at the bottom of the league, now they’re going to buy players from the middle of the league and yet in all of the trades they haven’t bought one superstar player. In a league where you need star power to win, they’ve acquired virtually none but somehow I’m supposed to believe this team is going to be competitive with it ending in a championship or at least a realistic shot at one in 2024/25? Bolded and increased the font on the key point so many are still missing. You don't trade a 1st and multiple 2nds and a top 16yr old for 2 18yr olds who are not among the best in the league. OK , Name one that Cape should have brought in to fit our cycle! Name a SUPER STAR. We are all critics on this board, but no one ever offers a solution, just standard cookie cutter comments on the ideal plan gone wrong. Look at the 2021 Draft in detail...it's a fucking train wreck. This is what we are building around. Would we be better off like BC who no longer has any of their top 4 picks, all of who were supposed to be studs or Rimouski who has 2 of their top 7 picks hitting their development curve. Or wait, Peddle he was the answer, we should have picked him. I am pissed at losing Desserieux and the development suffered by a coach who ego got in the way, but I can't overlook the fact that no one has nailed it and we still have a chance, a small one, but still a chance. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 14:46:31 GMT -4
Bolded and increased the font on the key point so many are still missing. You don't trade a 1st and multiple 2nds and a top 16yr old for 2 18yr olds who are not among the best in the league. But then refuse to anti up when top of the league 18s could be available. Peddle requests a trade, CB doesn't want to pay. SJ's cycle isn't really around Burbidge, Collard goes to Moncton despite CB having more assets, etc etc You had me until the first name you used was Peddle. But...yeah. |
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Post by Briwhel on Jun 23, 2023 14:51:37 GMT -4
But then refuse to anti up when top of the league 18s could be available. Peddle requests a trade, CB doesn't want to pay. SJ's cycle isn't really around Burbidge, Collard goes to Moncton despite CB having more assets, etc etc You had me until the first name you used was Peddle. But...yeah. The point remains that there are 05s who could help and be multiple year players (and who also could be part of the top of the roster). Instead of acquiring Schmitt for a 1st and 3 2nds, CB could have paid a 2 and a 6 for Plandowski (1 less year) and had an extra 1st and 2 2nds (likely enough to move up to 4th if CB wanted). Edit: Heck, with those assets, CB could have bought Fernandez and 4 like Chicoutimi did |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 14:55:14 GMT -4
Bolded and increased the font on the key point so many are still missing. You don't trade a 1st and multiple 2nds and a top 16yr old for 2 18yr olds who are not among the best in the league. OK , Name one that Cape should have brought in to fit our cycle! Name a SUPER STAR. We are all critics on this board, but no one ever offers a solution, just standard cookie cutter comments on the ideal plan gone wrong. Look at the 2021 Draft in detail...it's a fucking train wreck. This is what we are building around. Would we be better off like BC who no longer has any of their top 4 picks, all of who were supposed to be studs or Rimouski who has 2 of their top 7 picks hitting their development curve. Or wait, Peddle he was the answer, we should have picked him. I am pissed at losing Desserieux and the development suffered by a coach who ego got in the way, but I can't overlook the fact that no one has nailed it and we still have a chance, a small one, but still a chance. My GM says 2023 had a great top 5. There is superstar #1 that lines up with Lavoie and the other 2022 picks. Lets not forget how buying from the bottom made our 1st round pick lower. Now if the discussion becomes what would I get for Desruisseaux, 2024 CB 1st, 2023 VIC 2nd 2024 CB 2nd, 2025 CB 2nd that becomes a 2025 3rd when one is acquired? Are we saying that doesn't get you a young player with huge upside? The solutions are to have patience. We didn't need Schmitt or Biggar. Keep the picks. Draft higher. We didn't need Hebert's to take ice from Desruisseaux. The solution isn't to make different trades. It's to stop shortcutting the process by trading for 18yr olds 6 months after you've completely bottomed out as a franchise. NOW is when we should have started looking to add players who compliment what we should have in place. We're just throwing shit at the wall, hoping it sticks, but demanding people pay top dollar to not only watch it but whatever is left standing if it all goes to shit. Oh and you're not building around 2021. Once you didn't get Peddle and blew your top pick your focus should have reset to 2022 being the start of the core. If they arrive a year early in 24-25...perfect thats what a good rebuild can see happen if done right. But just because you WANT to win doesn't mean you're ready for it. |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jun 23, 2023 14:56:48 GMT -4
You had me until the first name you used was Peddle. But...yeah. The point remains that there are 05s who could help and be multiple year players (and who also could be part of the top of the roster). Instead of acquiring Schmitt for a 1st and 3 2nds, CB could have paid a 2 and a 6 for Plandowski (1 less year) and had an extra 1st and 2 2nds (likely enough to move up to 4th if CB wanted). Edit: Heck, with those assets, CB could have bought Fernandez and 4 like Chicoutimi did Exactly. By not overpaying for Schmitt and Biggar alone there are like 6 extra high picks to move. Why a 2024 1st was added WITH Desruisseaux for Newcombe i'll never understand. But how often do teams make those deals and say it's to have them as overagers. Buying early they said. |
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Post by justathought on Jun 23, 2023 14:57:58 GMT -4
If I understand the logic, last year we traded for three 19 year old's supposedly to help show the younger "Core" players who are still here how to play.
Now if I'm not mistaken it's likely that 2 of those 3 acquired 19 year old's won't be back this season?
Is that the best asset management in a carefully planned rebuild?
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Post by Briwhel on Jun 23, 2023 15:04:23 GMT -4
If I were GM, I would probably still have made the Desruisseaux trade (assuming that there is more to the story there), and I would have made the Biggar trade if Buteau asked for a trade (if not, that is a stupid trade). I would have acquired a cheaper D instead of Schmitt (Couturier bought a D who was not really available just because).
Then when the draft hit, I would have moved for bigger OA for this year (Rousseau, Gendron). I would also have been offering some of the excess picks to see if I could fish out some forwards who don't necessarily fit their team's cycles for reasonable prices.
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Post by scotiahockey on Jun 23, 2023 15:12:24 GMT -4
Bolded and increased the font on the key point so many are still missing. You don't trade a 1st and multiple 2nds and a top 16yr old for 2 18yr olds who are not among the best in the league. OK , Name one that Cape should have brought in to fit our cycle! Name a SUPER STAR. We are all critics on this board, but no one ever offers a solution, just standard cookie cutter comments on the ideal plan gone wrong. Look at the 2021 Draft in detail...it's a fucking train wreck. This is what we are building around. Would we be better off like BC who no longer has any of their top 4 picks, all of who were supposed to be studs or Rimouski who has 2 of their top 7 picks hitting their development curve. Or wait, Peddle he was the answer, we should have picked him. I am pissed at losing Desserieux and the development suffered by a coach who ego got in the way, but I can't overlook the fact that no one has nailed it and we still have a chance, a small one, but still a chance. There isn’t any superstars because the guys who should fit their cycle, the 05/06 draft class, haven’t really been given up on by teams yet because they’re 16/17 years old. They haven’t had enough time to develop into stars but that’s where projection and patience comes into play. You can’t force your hand in this league, you let your draft picks play out and then you decide what your core year to go for it is. They never let the process play itself out to even determine what their go for it year should be. They made the decision and then have tried to trade their way into it. If the 2021 draft class was a bust because of the missed season, then so be it. You just finished dead last the next year, you should probably in all likelihood be targeting the 2006 year as core of your team with this draft being the next wave, after having another high pick and potential superstar (because the team sucked) as the 18/19 year olds you build the majority of your team around. Then you go find some solid 05’s as OA’s and get some euros to come in that can play. Baril, Lavigne, Pearson, Collard, Beaunoyer have all been traded but they’ve decided they’re going to go with the 2004 born players as their core. Those 05/06 born players should be who they’re targeting. Instead they traded a talented 16 year old and traded picks like candy. You build through the draft and then use the currency you’ve acquired to find your holes when a core has been established. They paid premium prices to push a cycle that isn’t going to work instead of using those premium picks to do it right. I can’t offer you names because they butchered this whole thing, if they did it right, the names listed above are who they should be targeting. Not paying premiums on the wrong age group because the owner wants a competitive product on the ice. You say they have a chance, I’ll say this. They have no chance. This team with this core isn’t going to win or be a legitimate contender when the 04 born players are overage players. As a fan you should be optimistic but don’t be surprised or disappointed when this fails again and the same song and dance plays for this organization. I’ve said since Sly was hired that he was never the right guy to hire for this job. The only thing that’s changed in my eyes, is that he probably doesn’t have a lot of say in the matter and whoever was hired would have been the wrong guy because the owner doesn’t want to do it the right way anyways. |
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Post by eagle78 on Jun 23, 2023 17:03:55 GMT -4
Also Simon better get the check book out for the next coach , there are 6 other teams in league without coaches at the moment. So he better get a good one or else we will get scraps yet again
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Post by eagleeye on Jun 23, 2023 19:48:04 GMT -4
Personally I don’t even see how you can call this a rebuild. This is stop gapping to put a “competitive” product on the ice, even though I don’t think there’s anyone out there that thinks this ends in a championship. You aren’t going to hit on every draft pick, you aren’t going to hit on every trade but when you’re trading/harming the development of young players that should be your core to go chase older players, who are the type of players you’d acquire to supplement a championship team, not the type you acquire to build around, you’re doing your “rebuild” wrong. They’ve bought players when they’re at the bottom of the league, now they’re going to buy players from the middle of the league and yet in all of the trades they haven’t bought one superstar player. In a league where you need star power to win, they’ve acquired virtually none but somehow I’m supposed to believe this team is going to be competitive with it ending in a championship or at least a realistic shot at one in 2024/25? Bolded and increased the font on the key point so many are still missing. You don't trade a 1st and multiple 2nds and a top 16yr old for 2 18yr olds who are not among the best in the league. |
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Post by eagleeye on Jun 23, 2023 19:55:35 GMT -4
i don't know if i quoted it right guys
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Post by coleminer on Jun 24, 2023 18:36:08 GMT -4
What are the odds of the Eagles buying Bauer's silence? He is helping spread the word on how damaged the brand is!
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