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Post by lirette on Dec 8, 2023 9:56:23 GMT -4
I know this might sound a little bit crazy. But Michael Horths value isn't set by posters on a niche QMJHL forum. Halifax posters saying they don't want him doesn't mean that Cam Russell isn't interested in him the same way that posting about every goal he scores or listing his height and weight will increase his value or interest. If he doesn't get dealt it could be that Hulton is asking for too much, or its also possible Sly Couturier is ready with bags of 1st and 2nd round picks to overpay for him. At this point everything feels pretty tight lipped heading into the trade period. That's fine to say, but there are a couple of OA who are objectively better hockey players. That being said, there are a couple of teams (Drummondville, CB) where their lack of finishing would make him a great fit. I'm not making any comment about who is better or not. I'm just saying its kind of pointless to get frustrated that another teams fans are not interested in a player. The price isn't set on qmjhl probands. All it takes is one team to really want a specific player and a GM whos interested enough to overpay. I would have never paid 2 2nd rounders for Connor Trenholm (whos currently playing 4th line) last year but Ritchie wanted him bad enough that he paid it. |
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Post by statsman18 on Dec 8, 2023 14:15:37 GMT -4
21 goals in 30 games for Horth. How he is not a hot commodity come trade period is beyond me. As others have stated, it’s not that he’s not a commodity but rather he’s not the top tier. This is the classic case of being to close to the forest to see the trees. He’s all you see so you have a skewed out look on him. I feel I need to say this I have never said and I believe no one else has said he won’t be traded. Just pretty much everyone doesn’t think the return is going to be what “YOU” specifically think it will be. Personally IMO what Quebec got for Huchette is sorta the ball park you should be looking at. Not to put words in your mouth here but the impression you have been leaving is that’s not good enough. |
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Post by Naomi on Dec 8, 2023 14:48:56 GMT -4
21 goals in 30 games for Horth. How he is not a hot commodity come trade period is beyond me. As others have stated, it’s not that he’s not a commodity but rather he’s not the top tier. This is the classic case of being to close to the forest to see the trees. He’s all you see so you have a skewed out look on him. I feel I need to say this I have never said and I believe no one else has said he won’t be traded. Just pretty much everyone doesn’t think the return is going to be what “YOU” specifically think it will be. Personally IMO what Quebec got for Huchette is sorta the ball park you should be looking at. Not to put words in your mouth here but the impression you have been leaving is that’s not good enough. I think Horth's situation speaks volumes though. On a team that outside of a couple players is terrible or just too young to really be competitive yet. It's 21 goals on a rebuilding team that's dealt with a lot of injuries this year. It's not like he has 21 goals on a stacked team like B-C or Halifax. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to expect a high return for Horth. I don't expect some ridiculous WHL-like trade involving like 7 first round picks, but expecting a first and good prospect in return for a player who can be quite clutch in the playoffs and be a solid difference maker on an "all in" team seems fair. |
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Post by Briwhel on Dec 8, 2023 14:56:47 GMT -4
As others have stated, it’s not that he’s not a commodity but rather he’s not the top tier. This is the classic case of being to close to the forest to see the trees. He’s all you see so you have a skewed out look on him. I feel I need to say this I have never said and I believe no one else has said he won’t be traded. Just pretty much everyone doesn’t think the return is going to be what “YOU” specifically think it will be. Personally IMO what Quebec got for Huchette is sorta the ball park you should be looking at. Not to put words in your mouth here but the impression you have been leaving is that’s not good enough. I think Horth's situation speaks volumes though. On a team that outside of a couple players is terrible or just too young to really be competitive yet. It's 21 goals on a rebuilding team that's dealt with a lot of injuries this year. It's not like he has 21 goals on a stacked team like B-C or Halifax. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to expect a high return for Horth. I don't expect some ridiculous WHL-like trade involving like 7 first round picks, but expecting a first and good prospect in return for a player who can be quite clutch in the playoffs and be a solid difference maker on an "all in" team seems fair. Peter Reynolds plays on a poor SJ team and has more points. Roelens plays on a poor Bathurst and has more points. Mianscum has more points on a Sherbrooke team with less goals. The issue with the argument is that all of the offensive players available are coming from bad teams. Also, 20 year-olds rarely return a 1st. |
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Post by L'il Boy on Dec 8, 2023 15:04:59 GMT -4
21 goals in 30 games for Horth. How he is not a hot commodity come trade period is beyond me. As others have stated, it’s not that he’s not a commodity but rather he’s not the top tier. This is the classic case of being to close to the forest to see the trees. He’s all you see so you have a skewed out look on him. I feel I need to say this I have never said and I believe no one else has said he won’t be traded. Just pretty much everyone doesn’t think the return is going to be what “YOU” specifically think it will be. Personally IMO what Quebec got for Huchette is sorta the ball park you should be looking at. Not to put words in your mouth here but the impression you have been leaving is that’s not good enough. I'm not in total disagreement with you on his value. But the reality is that Horth's value will depend on how many teams, if any, want him, how badly they want him, and how much Hulton is wiling to let him go for. At this point, streaky or not, Horth is currently tied for 3rd in the Q in goals scored and is a ppg player. There is definitely value there, especially for a team that might be struggling on the PP.
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Post by statsman18 on Dec 8, 2023 15:29:01 GMT -4
As others have stated, it’s not that he’s not a commodity but rather he’s not the top tier. This is the classic case of being to close to the forest to see the trees. He’s all you see so you have a skewed out look on him. I feel I need to say this I have never said and I believe no one else has said he won’t be traded. Just pretty much everyone doesn’t think the return is going to be what “YOU” specifically think it will be. Personally IMO what Quebec got for Huchette is sorta the ball park you should be looking at. Not to put words in your mouth here but the impression you have been leaving is that’s not good enough. I'm not in total disagreement with you on his value. But the reality is that Horth's value will depend on how many teams, if any, want him, how badly they want him, and how much Hulton is wiling to let him go for. At this point, streaky or not, Horth is currently tied for 3rd in the Q in goals scored and is a ppg player. There is definitely value there, especially for a team that might be struggling on the PP.
I agree with your points of value. The thing is like Briwhel just posted there’s other players who have more points and are IMO top tier where Horth is still 2nd tier. Once those names are off the table then yes his value is either really high or it’s like last year with Biakabutuka. Value to high and no one left or willing to pay. I’m sticking to the Huchette mark, I think anything close to that and it’s a win for Charlottetown. |
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Post by falconz on Dec 8, 2023 15:52:45 GMT -4
To think Horth will retrieve a 1st and a top prospect is unrealistic - it’s just not going to happen. I would be very happy to get a second round pick or maybe even a third and another 20 to take Horth spot
I think the main concern would be if Horth was to go to a Drummondville where does he fit in that lineup? Does he Get consistent PP time? He has 13 power play goals so what’s his role 5v5 can he produce at a point per game pace without playing on pp1 ?
I do think Hulton will wait it out and I think a team will pay a bit more once the roelens, Reynolds, mianscum go
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Post by countryboy on Dec 12, 2023 19:09:35 GMT -4
Now that Rimouski has been confirmed as the host of the 2025 Memorial Cup they should be doing some serious shopping in the trade period and next summer to build their host team. They will be looking to add as much veteran talent as possible.
I don't really feel that we have the quality of 04 players to send them who might be considered top end 20's on a championship team. But do we have any 05 born players who might be interesting to them. They will want to populate their team with big, veteran players. Would a guy like Lucas Romeo be interesting to them?
He'll be 19 next year with two full seasons experience in the league. His 17 y/o season was great for an undrafted rookie....15-15-30 in 64 games. That was enough of an impression to garner invites to NHL prospect camps. This year he's off to a slower start (9-2-11 in 26 games). Injuries have certainly been a factor in his slow start this year. Romeo brings great size (6'3" and 205 lb) and he can play a very physical game.
What kind of a return could we expect for Romeo?
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Post by Briwhel on Dec 12, 2023 19:24:56 GMT -4
Now that Rimouski has been confirmed as the host of the 2025 Memorial Cup they should be doing some serious shopping in the trade period and next summer to build their host team. They will be looking to add as much veteran talent as possible. I don't really feel that we have the quality of 04 players to send them who might be considered top end 20's on a championship team. But do we have any 05 born players who might be interesting to them. They will want to populate their team with big, veteran players. Would a guy like Lucas Romeo be interesting to them? He'll be 19 next year with two full seasons experience in the league. His 17 y/o season was great for an undrafted rookie....15-15-30 in 64 games. That was enough of an impression to garner invites to NHL prospect camps. This year he's off to a slower start (9-2-11 in 26 games). Injuries have certainly been a factor in his slow start this year. Romeo brings great size (6'3" and 205 lb) and he can play a very physical game. What kind of a return could we expect for Romeo? I struggle to see the fit, honestly. For a team like Rimouski that is trying to build up, it might be better to buy a 19 with size both years than to take a risk that Romeo finds his game (unless he is cheap). |
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Post by Score on Dec 12, 2023 19:27:21 GMT -4
Im serious...and can't get an actual answer.
Why isn't Rutledge up with the Isles?
He is a goal a game with Summerside....
23gp
24G
18A
42pts
...he has 4 games in 3gp this season with the Isles....and looked very good.
Does he want to just play JrA?
If not, I see no reason that he is not on this roster
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Post by countryboy on Dec 12, 2023 19:42:08 GMT -4
Did I read somewhere that he’s not interested in major junior hockey this season? I thought I saw something somewhere that the Islanders inquired about bringing him on a Quebec trip but he opted to pass. I thought it was posted here on this board somewhere….but I could be mistaken. He’s definitely good enough to play….so it’s a possible explanation….but I’m not taking this from any specific source….just have a memory of seeing that somewhere Im serious...and can't get an actual answer. Why isn't Rutledge up with the Isles? He is a goal a game with Summerside.... 23gp 24G 18A 42pts ...he has 4 games in 3gp this season with the Isles....and looked very good. Does he want to just play JrA? If not, I see no reason that he is not on this roster |
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Post by islander19 on Dec 12, 2023 19:43:01 GMT -4
Im serious...and can't get an actual answer. Why isn't Rutledge up with the Isles? He is a goal a game with Summerside.... 23gp 24G 18A 42pts ...he has 4 games in 3gp this season with the Isles....and looked very good. Does he want to just play JrA? If not, I see no reason that he is not on this roster I’m pretty sure he’s content and loyal to the Caps. Might be a different story after Christmas when he can come up for the year but still I wouldn’t be shocked to see him stay with the Caps for their playoff run. |
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Post by switchback on Dec 13, 2023 0:51:32 GMT -4
So realistically what’s everybody think going to happen? I’m not expecting much but would love to see a couple younger pieces added up front for when this team is going to be a contender.. ideally when are we actually thinking this team is aiming 2 years?
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Post by dutchinc on Dec 13, 2023 10:18:38 GMT -4
So realistically what’s everybody think going to happen? I’m not expecting much but would love to see a couple younger pieces added up front for when this team is going to be a contender.. ideally when are we actually thinking this team is aiming 2 years? I think closer to 3. We have no 1st or 2nd pick next year either so far. If we’re lucky they get a 2nd for Horth, if at all. We need picks to speed up the process but we don’t have them. |
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Post by countryboy on Dec 13, 2023 10:23:10 GMT -4
I'm really not sure what will happen heading into the trade period. Obviously we are not going to be looking to add pieces to bring more experience on to our team. We are still in certain sell mode and they last few weeks have really made that crystal clear.
But I don't know how we can make a big splash at the deadline because the pieces we have to sell aren't necessarily the most valuable assets out there. I really like our 3 20 y/o players. Horth is a guy who has value.... we've debated it significantly on the boards.....but Huckins and Morneau are probably not going to bring in huge returns, unless a team that needs an upgrade at 20 is specifically looking. Huckins' slow start probably has teams a little wary and Morneau is still a relatively new QMJHL player. Both are quality 20 y/o players for lower tier teams.... so we'll not likely see them traded from one lower tier team to another!
I know the banter on the boards has been about how likely it is we can land a 1st round pick for Horth....I'm not sure I buy that. I'm a Horth fan. The hardest thing to do in hockey is to score goals and he is good at that. He might be an awesome 20 y/o pickup for a very good team where he lands on a top line with talented players and fills the net. But I know his streaky play is something that makes some fans leery. Remember...there are only 54 available 20 y/o jobs in the league and right now basically everybody has someone in one of those spots. Plus, there's only a small fraction of teams actually looking at improving their 20 y/o talent. I'm looking at that CHA 2024 2nd that Drummondville owns and I'd be probably probably pretty happy to have that come our way if the Volts wanted to upgrade Drew Elliot with Horth.
Otherwise, our 19 y/o players really don't move the needle a major way for trade value. Michel is a dependable veteran blueliner, but his offense is very shy of last year's totals. I've mentioned earlier in this thread that Vos is useful player due to his versatility....but nobody will pay big prices for these guys. Hughes is coming around....but realistically, we are probably more likely to build 2024-25 overagers around guys like Michel, Vos, etc.... at least start there....a bird in the hand, right.
Kearsey is the guy we have that everybody would be asking about. He's young, has value, and is a great player right now. I'd say there's no way he's traded this season, thought other GMs will inquire with Jim about his availability. But you start the questions around Kearsey.....do we have enough trade capital, picks, and young players to potentially build around a strong team when he is 19? Will he be NHL drafted and playing pro at 20 or will a team be able to benefit from having him as an elite 20 y/o player in major junior? All of these questions we don't have an answer to right now.
One thing I wonder about is whether we'd ever consider dangling a goaltender out there in a trade. I don't mean Bickle... I don't really see him having great trade value. Rather, I wonder if a team would have any interest in bringing in Ozols as part of their European mix? It is getting harder and harder to bring in Euros who are ready to play. It almost seems even for those Euros who work out they need a season of development before you really see benefit. Add to the mix how hard it is to find established goaltending talent. Is there a market out there who might be keen on acquiring Ozols to be their #1 next season? I'm not sure there's enough of a track record Ozols has shown for this to be a realistic option. I think he's been better (at least to the eye) than Bickle, but his stats are just fair, even for playing like a weak team like ours. I'd consider dangling him....but the overwhelming likely scenario has him returning as our #1 goaltender next season.
It might be a relatively quiet trade session and we might just have to be OK with that.
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