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Post by moosefan1994 on Apr 9, 2024 12:48:23 GMT -4
I like that word a lot better - reload - rather than seeing it as sell - bottom out - full rebuild. Somebody was saying that people will quickly get tired of continuous 1st and 2nd round playoff exits. They would - but not as quickly as they would watching sub-.500 seasons. Looking at it from a positive angle - two years ago, the Moose were a game away from the finals.
Last year - they made the finals. This season - before they hit the iceberg - a return of the reigning league MVP and scoring champion - and your best D-man healthy were reason for optimism for another final appearance. Things fell apart - but still. . . Add in the best game day atmosphere in the league - game in - game out - and the CHL ranking worthy regular season records - and I honestly don't think anybody will ever get tired of that. You will still have those seasons when you can go for it every four or five years. Some will say - oh - you didn't win with Cataford, Vidicek, Rousseau and so on this year, but they were your top tier depth players this year. Take away the top forward (MVP level) and best D-man from any top four contender - and they are no longer a top four contender. Will it eventually catch up to you staying as competitive as possible year after year? Probably - but THAT is the time to do your rebuild. IMO - you don't just throw away a returning nucleus of Rousseau, Cataford, Schultz, Vidicek (or MacKinnon), Kilfoil, Phillips, Levesque and so on because a dozen people on a message board claim that Cape Breton and Moncton have better rosters to go for it next year - so you must sell - you MUST - or I'm not going to renew my ticket. If another .700 plus team and possible deep playoff run isn't good enough for you - don't renew - but 7,000 plus will still back that level of team. Houde - Steinman - Loshing as your 20's? I'll take Rousseau, Schultz and Vidicek as my 20's over what either of those teams have - and I'd take the Moose depth and prospects as well. The Mooseheads are ALREADY in 3rd year rebuild / reload phase. Onwards and upwards Peter Simon! Pretty good conversation. Having your GM help build a Courteau Cup roster for another team is for losers. The Moose have a good returning roster - top prospects - lots of picks - and a huge fan base. A shrewd businessman isn't going to hand all of that over and cross his fingers that three years from now - he'll be back to where he is right now - Memorial Cup host season - or not. JMO. They were? just looked no they were not.... two years ago they lost to Bathurst in the first round of the playoffs Yeah, keeping Desnoyers around for his leadership netted the Mooseheads one extra home gate in the playoffs!!
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 9, 2024 12:54:41 GMT -4
IMO - you don't just throw away a returning nucleus of Rousseau, Cataford, Schultz, Vidicek (or MacKinnon), Kilfoil, Phillips, Levesque and so on because a dozen people on a message board claim that Cape Breton and Moncton have better rosters to go for it next year - so you must sell - you MUST - or I'm not going to renew my ticket. If another .700 plus team and possible deep playoff run isn't good enough for you - don't renew - but 7,000 plus will still back that level of team. Houde - Steinman - Loshing as your 20's? I'll take Rousseau, Schultz and Vidicek as my 20's over what either of those teams have - and I'd take the Moose depth and prospects as well. The Mooseheads are ALREADY in 3rd year rebuild / reload phase. Onwards and upwards Peter Simon! Pretty good conversation. Having your GM help build a Courteau Cup roster for another team is for losers. The Moose have a good returning roster - top prospects - lots of picks - and a huge fan base. A shrewd businessman isn't going to hand all of that over and cross his fingers that three years from now - he'll be back to where he is right now - Memorial Cup host season - or not. JMO. You're just saying things that are just not true. They don't have top prospects or lots of picks. The Moncton trades means we all know MacKinnon goes to Moncton and picks go back to Halifax. But we have no idea what picks or what years and what we do know today is there's no 1st in 2024 and no 1st, 2nd, 3rd in 2026. None of the kids picked after Kilfoil in the 2023 draft are projected to replace anything but depth pieces on the roster as of today. They certainly don't hold "top prospect" value on the trade market and Kilfoil 100% has a NTC. The shrewd business man sacrifices a little now in order to get a lot later. That is not a .700 team. It wasn't a .700 team this year with 4 rebuilding teams in the division and 2 teams a full year from their peak. How on earth do you get to .700 without MacKinnon, without your 20's from this year, without Dumais and Furlong and zero value back for them? Add in CB and Moncton going for it and as is thats maybe a .600 teams in 7th/8th/9th in the league standings. You're calling a team that won't get out of round 1 without additions as throwing away a chance at the Cup. You also just won't acknowledge that this year prices are higher so the team with no depth coming and no picks to use can recoup both depth and picks for those you think are destined to bring them a championship who couldn't win a playoff game this year. Your "this is year 3 of a rebuild" stuff is cringeworthy at this point. It would be the 3rd year of "contending" but like year 5/6 of the rebuild. You're trying to use word play to have your cake and eat it too around this rebuild cycle. If this was year 3 all those guys would have been picked in 2021 or 2022. Vidicek and Rousseau are entering their overage seasons....so if you think this is anything but year 5 of the rebuild (year 0 being 18-19) you're just kidding yourself or inventing your own terminology that isnt aligned with absolutely anyone else and how they view QMJHL building cycles.
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Post by Briwhel on Apr 9, 2024 13:19:29 GMT -4
IMO - you don't just throw away a returning nucleus of Rousseau, Cataford, Schultz, Vidicek (or MacKinnon), Kilfoil, Phillips, Levesque and so on because a dozen people on a message board claim that Cape Breton and Moncton have better rosters to go for it next year - so you must sell - you MUST - or I'm not going to renew my ticket. If another .700 plus team and possible deep playoff run isn't good enough for you - don't renew - but 7,000 plus will still back that level of team. Houde - Steinman - Loshing as your 20's? I'll take Rousseau, Schultz and Vidicek as my 20's over what either of those teams have - and I'd take the Moose depth and prospects as well. The Mooseheads are ALREADY in 3rd year rebuild / reload phase. Onwards and upwards Peter Simon! Pretty good conversation. Having your GM help build a Courteau Cup roster for another team is for losers. The Moose have a good returning roster - top prospects - lots of picks - and a huge fan base. A shrewd businessman isn't going to hand all of that over and cross his fingers that three years from now - he'll be back to where he is right now - Memorial Cup host season - or not. JMO. You're just saying things that are just not true. They don't have top prospects or lots of picks. The Moncton trades means we all know MacKinnon goes to Moncton and picks go back to Halifax. But we have no idea what picks or what years and what we do know today is there's no 1st in 2024 and no 1st, 2nd, 3rd in 2026. None of the kids picked after Kilfoil in the 2023 draft are projected to replace anything but depth pieces on the roster as of today. They certainly don't hold "top prospect" value on the trade market and Kilfoil 100% has a NTC. The shrewd business man sacrifices a little now in order to get a lot later. That is not a .700 team. It wasn't a .700 team this year with 4 rebuilding teams in the division and 2 teams a full year from their peak. How on earth do you get to .700 without MacKinnon, without your 20's from this year, without Dumais and Furlong and zero value back for them? Add in CB and Moncton going for it and as is thats maybe a .600 teams in 7th/8th/9th in the league standings. You're calling a team that won't get out of round 1 without additions as throwing away a chance at the Cup. You also just won't acknowledge that this year prices are higher so the team with no depth coming and no picks to use can recoup both depth and picks for those you think are destined to bring them a championship who couldn't win a playoff game this year. Your "this is year 3 of a rebuild" stuff is cringeworthy at this point. It would be the 3rd year of "contending" but like year 5/6 of the rebuild. You're trying to use word play to have your cake and eat it too around this rebuild cycle. If this was year 3 all those guys would have been picked in 2021 or 2022. Vidicek and Rousseau are entering their overage seasons....so if you think this is anything but year 5 of the rebuild (year 0 being 18-19) you're just kidding yourself or inventing your own terminology that isnt aligned with absolutely anyone else and how they view QMJHL building cycles. It should be noted that the present Mooseheads were built by the most lopsided trades in Q history (thank you, COVID). Halifax acquired 4 1sts, 4 2nds, L'Heureux and Desnoyers all in one trade window. Add on to that that those assets became Dumais, Vidicek, MacKinnon, Orr, Gauthier, Phillips and more
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 9, 2024 13:52:04 GMT -4
No Jack - it's you that just doesn't get it. You're trying to school me on hockey - LOL. Wait and see. I prefer being competitive every year as often as possible. You prefer your own team bottoming out so you can bitch and whine and moan - because that's who you are. People want the Moose to sell so they can add a guy like Cataford or Rousseau - and I prefer to keep them. The only thing cringeworthy is your belief that you know any more about the game than anybody else. It's laughable. When you get over your head in hockey discussion - you resort to taking personal shots. You're very limited. Every single time I post - I need to defend myself against the inevitabe Jack-Attack. Why is that? Do you think that your candle will shine more brightly if you can blow mine out? That's all it is here. I'm not just making anything up whatsoever. It's my opinion - my honest opinion - nothing more. Am I not allowed to have that here without your inevitable 30 point inspection on my every post? I'm not trying to do anything. I am 100% schooling someone who doesn't either understand or want to acknowledge how the league works. You clearly have no idea what I want or think if you think I only want bottoming out. Again you draw your own conclusion and don't see any other perspective. My team bottomed out and made mistakes and pivoted this season. We all seen that here in CB. And what you call me bitching about is what many here bitched about because common sense says adding veterans to a bottomed out team means lost value and CB seen Sly go through many bodies before he simply filled holes with smart trades this year and avoided the constant turn over we seen from the 2022 draft to the 2023 draft. If you're going to post paragraphs that don't align or make sense and have people question it - they're going to respond. Whether its me, or other posters. Only you post entire books then get pissed at people telling you its not based on any sort of reality and since you can't prove it, defend it, or back it up you want to take shots at the person responding. No wonder you stopped following Jr A. Theres probably a message board full of people happy you've found this form so you can sit 3 hours away from any Q teams and tell us how certain Q teams should rebuild with .700 teams that aren't even .700 teams with WJHC Goaltending, a WJHC defender and an all time elite scorer. You need to learn the difference between stating opinion and stating fact. You're posting a whole pile of facts then saying poor me and my opinions. The eeyore "poor me" thing you constantly fall back on is just pathetic at this point. Saying "Halifax wasn't .700 last year and isn't .700 now" is blowing a candle out? No you have no rebuttal for fact. Saying "Halifax does not have top prospects" is blowing a candle out? No you have no rebuttal for fact. Saying "Halifax does not have draft picks" is blowing a candle out? No you have no rebuttal for fact. Saying "every time I post I need to defend myself from you" is pure bullshit. You have 448 posts. I've probably responded to less then 10% of them but 100% of the time its been to call out things you post as fact that are actually 100% factually wrong. But yeah man, everyone is just picking on you. Poor you. How can you survive is such an environment where after laying out 12 blatantly wrong things someone comes along and calls me on some of them hoping that you might some day actually acknowledge where you're just going so wrong in how you're viewing things. But 1 thing you are right about: You 100% have the right to be wrong all day here. And it appears you're content to continue to prove that point as fact.
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Post by L'il Boy on Apr 9, 2024 14:28:18 GMT -4
As well Halifax has a good base of talent already to start the rebuild Levesque ,Crosby ,Kilfoil,Fontaine ,Sprynar ,Philips,Doyle ,Martin,Mackenzie etc. The reload shouldn't be long couple of years tops we should be competitive again. I like that word a lot better - reload - rather than seeing it as sell - bottom out - full rebuild. Somebody was saying that people will quickly get tired of continuous 1st and 2nd round playoff exits. They would - but not as quickly as they would watching sub-.500 seasons. Looking at it from a positive angle - two years ago, the Moose were a game away from the finals. Last year - they made the finals. This season - before they hit the iceberg - a return of the reigning league MVP and scoring champion - and your best D-man healthy were reason for optimism for another final appearance. Things fell apart - but still. . . Add in the best game day atmosphere in the league - game in - game out - and the CHL ranking worthy regular season records - and I honestly don't think anybody will ever get tired of that. You will still have those seasons when you can go for it every four or five years. Some will say - oh - you didn't win with Cataford, Vidicek, Rousseau and so on this year, but they were your top tier depth players this year. Take away the top forward (MVP level) and best D-man from any top four contender - and they are no longer a top four contender. Will it eventually catch up to you staying as competitive as possible year after year? Probably - but THAT is the time to do your rebuild. IMO - you don't just throw away a returning nucleus of Rousseau, Cataford, Schultz, Vidicek (or MacKinnon), Kilfoil, Phillips, Levesque and so on because a dozen people on a message board claim that Cape Breton and Moncton have better rosters to go for it next year - so you must sell - you MUST - or I'm not going to renew my ticket. If another .700 plus team and possible deep playoff run isn't good enough for you - don't renew - but 7,000 plus will still back that level of team. Houde - Steinman - Loshing as your 20's? I'll take Rousseau, Schultz and Vidicek as my 20's over what either of those teams have - and I'd take the Moose depth and prospects as well. The Mooseheads are ALREADY in 3rd year rebuild / reload phase. Onwards and upwards Peter Simon! Pretty good conversation. Having your GM help build a Courteau Cup roster for another team is for losers. The Moose have a good returning roster - top prospects - lots of picks - and a huge fan base. A shrewd businessman isn't going to hand all of that over and cross his fingers that three years from now - he'll be back to where he is right now - Memorial Cup host season - or not. JMO. For a guy that says he only watches on TV, how the hell would you know what the game day experience is like in Halifax....or any other rink for that matter? Sitting in your recliner drinking beer and eating potato chips doesn't count......
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Post by L'il Boy on Apr 9, 2024 14:36:51 GMT -4
People want the Moose to sell so they can add a guy like Cataford or Rousseau - and I prefer to keep them. The only thing cringeworthy is your belief that you know any more about the game than anybody else. If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black, than I don't know what is.
It wouldn't take long to find lots.....and I mean lots.....of your posts where you're trying to make us all believe that you know more about hockey than anyone else on these boards.
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Post by catnut on Apr 9, 2024 14:37:40 GMT -4
I like that word a lot better - reload - rather than seeing it as sell - bottom out - full rebuild. Somebody was saying that people will quickly get tired of continuous 1st and 2nd round playoff exits. They would - but not as quickly as they would watching sub-.500 seasons. Looking at it from a positive angle - two years ago, the Moose were a game away from the finals. Last year - they made the finals. This season - before they hit the iceberg - a return of the reigning league MVP and scoring champion - and your best D-man healthy were reason for optimism for another final appearance. Things fell apart - but still. . . Add in the best game day atmosphere in the league - game in - game out - and the CHL ranking worthy regular season records - and I honestly don't think anybody will ever get tired of that. You will still have those seasons when you can go for it every four or five years. Some will say - oh - you didn't win with Cataford, Vidicek, Rousseau and so on this year, but they were your top tier depth players this year. Take away the top forward (MVP level) and best D-man from any top four contender - and they are no longer a top four contender. Will it eventually catch up to you staying as competitive as possible year after year? Probably - but THAT is the time to do your rebuild. IMO - you don't just throw away a returning nucleus of Rousseau, Cataford, Schultz, Vidicek (or MacKinnon), Kilfoil, Phillips, Levesque and so on because a dozen people on a message board claim that Cape Breton and Moncton have better rosters to go for it next year - so you must sell - you MUST - or I'm not going to renew my ticket. If another .700 plus team and possible deep playoff run isn't good enough for you - don't renew - but 7,000 plus will still back that level of team. Houde - Steinman - Loshing as your 20's? I'll take Rousseau, Schultz and Vidicek as my 20's over what either of those teams have - and I'd take the Moose depth and prospects as well. The Mooseheads are ALREADY in 3rd year rebuild / reload phase. Onwards and upwards Peter Simon! Pretty good conversation. Having your GM help build a Courteau Cup roster for another team is for losers. The Moose have a good returning roster - top prospects - lots of picks - and a huge fan base. A shrewd businessman isn't going to hand all of that over and cross his fingers that three years from now - he'll be back to where he is right now - Memorial Cup host season - or not. JMO. For a guy that says he only watches on TV, how the hell would you know what the game day experience is like in Halifax....or any there rink for that matter? Sitting in your recliner drinking beer and eating potato chips doesn't count...... Yup. I was wondering about that part too. I've been to several rinks in the league and Halifax didn't have the best game atmosphere.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 9, 2024 14:47:48 GMT -4
For a guy that says he only watches on TV, how the hell would you know what the game day experience is like in Halifax....or any there rink for that matter? Sitting in your recliner drinking beer and eating potato chips doesn't count...... Yup. I was wondering about that part too. I've been to several rinks in the league and Halifax didn't have the best game atmosphere. In his scenario is really seems like Halifax exists in a world where they're only team to watch, host games, and draft kids. Thats the only explanation behind having such strong views...its like 17 other franchises don't exist in that vision in which case its super understandable to think Halifax couldn't possible be setup better when the reality is if they tried to contend there might not be able in a worse position to do so in terms of depth and picks to use as trade currency which is why almost everyone sees "rebuilding" as the realistic play in order to avoid those .230 seasons that would follow.
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Post by L'il Boy on Apr 9, 2024 14:48:29 GMT -4
I don't even bother reading your drivel any more for the most part. Every single good poster this forum has ever had inevitably leaves - because of you.It's hard to argue with that success rate. Well done - if that's the goal - which it clearly is. You can't post without a personal attack - and all to convince yourself you won the argument. You really think I don't understand how things work - while you correct me on my opinions. Where were you during the offseason? QMJHL OFFSEASONSo now you're calling not just Jack Bauer a bad poster, but every one that posts here .... That's a great way to make friends..... By the way, isn't this like your third membership here? Maybe grow some thick skin......
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 9, 2024 14:53:10 GMT -4
I don't even bother reading your drivel any more for the most part. Every single good poster this forum has ever had inevitably leaves - because of you.It's hard to argue with that success rate. Well done - if that's the goal - which it clearly is. You can't post without a personal attack - and all to convince yourself you won the argument. You really think I don't understand how things work - while you correct me on my opinions. Where were you during the offseason? QMJHL OFFSEASONSo now you're calling not just Jack Bauer a bad poster, but every one that posts here .... That's a great way to make friends..... By the way, isn't this like your third membership here? Maybe grow some thick skin...... Imagine believing the only good poster who hasn't been scared off by having opinion questioned is yourself on a forum in a community where some have literally been posting thoughts and conversing with each other for 25+ years. But...he really does not want to offend lol you have to laugh its just so pathetic at this point EDIT: I'll add this for accuracy in case someone thinks i'm full of shit. Billy can confirm this but he posted on the old Network54 boards that the Moncton Wildcats had linked from their own website in the late 90's and early 00's and thats how some of us found Moosetalk and other sites. Some of us have literally been talking to each other for an entire generation.
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Post by L'il Boy on Apr 9, 2024 14:59:28 GMT -4
So now you're calling not just Jack Bauer a bad poster, but every one that posts here .... That's a great way to make friends..... By the way, isn't this like your third membership here? Maybe grow some thick skin...... Imagine believing the only good poster who hasn't been scared off by having opinion questioned is yourself on a forum in a community where some have literally been posting thoughts and conversing with each other for 25+ years. But...he really does not want to offend lol you have to laugh its just so pathetic at this point EDIT: I'll add this for accuracy in case someone thinks i'm full of shit. Billy can confirm this but he posted on the old Network54 boards that the Moncton Wildcats had linked from their own website in the late 90's and early 00's and thats how some of us found Moosetalk and other sites. Some of us have literally been talking to each other for an entire generation. Ahh....I remember the good old days....when you had to log in to 6 different boards.....
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Post by moosefan1994 on Apr 9, 2024 15:03:05 GMT -4
Re atmosphere at the Mooseheads games this year - the atmosphere sucked because the team played like dogshit for the most part on home ice.
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Post by jordo999 on Apr 9, 2024 16:04:13 GMT -4
yeah personally if the Moose inevitably held onto Cataford, Vidicek, and Rousseau and expect to do more or similar this coming year than last then they will fall even harder, especially with little to no picks/prospects in the system...sometimes you just have to recoup assets and rebuild, but how you do that rebuild also matters because it can determine between a long drawn out one of a faster paced one and Halifax will be set up pretty nicely if all 3 of the players mentioned are moved...
not moving Desnoyers was a mistake at the time, majority see it that way cause it's more assets they could've had this year to work with as well. Not moving the big 3 could be even worst...
I know all about not moving players when they should be moved (Morrisette era in Bathurst) and sometimes that's worst then trying to stay slightly more competitive.
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Post by Jacques Strap on Apr 9, 2024 17:09:33 GMT -4
I want the Mooseheads to sell and rebuild this season. I have renewed my seats for next season. I enjoy following the draft and getting new young players through trades and the draft and watching them develop. That can be enjoyable too in following a rebuilding team.
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Post by nsvees on Apr 9, 2024 17:09:52 GMT -4
This would be my concern. The new owner likely knows nothing about hockey and how teams are built. In Junior hockey, you have the up and down cycles. Trying to be competitive every year usually leads to no where land. Trying to be competitive just to sell a few more tickets comes back to bit you in the end. Never bad enough to get the top picks in the draft, but never good enough to win a league title. It sucks at the time, but sometimes you have to go through the down years (i.e. bottom out) in order to build back up and be a top contender, if you handle your assets correctly and develop the younger players you have coming back through trades or players you draft. Russell needs to convince the new owner how championship teams are built in Junior hockey. If not, get ready for a lot of mediocrity over the coming seasons. So then what would it look like if the owner was just leaving the GM alone to make the moves and not "influencing"? You wouldn't be able to tell the difference. This looks the same as most of Cam Russell's approach year to year regardless of owner. When it was Bobby Smith as owner anytime a move didn't make sense to "fans" everyone opined "Smith told Cam he preferred this player to that one...or this coach wa hired because he is a friend of Bobby." This owner has enough money to be part of a bid in the past for an NBA team and in the current an NHL team. He has billions of $ and has less motivation to chase potential losses in a Q team. I really think the marketing part of the game is at its furthest degree of separation from the hockey department that it's ever been in this organization. This is all Cam Russell and his choices. It actually helps Simon's bid for his pro ventures if he doesn't interfere in the area he isn't an expert. You don't make that type of money by second guessing experts in all your businesses. My apologies for this late response; but owners can be involved (kept up to date as to what the GM wants to do, but should not be making personnel/coaching decisions. The best run organizations are when the owner allows his sports personnel people do what they need to do; give them the tools to do it and stay out of the way. Most owners have no idea about personnel; they know business/marketing/branding, etc. They should stick to their area of expertise. Obviously, the owner would have to approve what the personnel people want to do, but if there is a long standing trust between them, this should not be an issue. The Simons are new to the QMJHL; Cam Russell has been a GM in the QMJHL for about 15ish years. I don't care about the Simon's other sports ventures, or potential sports ventures. In this case my only interest is the Mooseheads.
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