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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Apr 11, 2024 11:12:06 GMT -4
That article would concern the hell out of me if I was a Halifax fan. A proper rebuild should have nothing to do with how much you win early on in a market with educated fans. Mediocrity taking you to a forced rebuild just guts a fan base. An organic rebuild coming out of a period of success should be a natural thing with a down year or maybe even 2 to restock the cupboards. Fan support proper direction. Halifax can set itself up for a 3-4 year solid window with 2 good drafts. But not if it repeats past mistakes (Desnoyers) in the name of being competitive. I wonder if these owners understand how a deal with Moncton to sell off veteran assets was a big catalyst for this playoff run. Might be a question you get answered if a real journalist with a sports background was asking questions rather than a rapper who went through journalism school. But Global news and their pool of children reporters is a topic for another day. Jack - depends how you read this what your take away is. There are pesimistic fans no matter the answer but he is just answering questions with the PR hat on not deciding anything here. Owners generally avoid answering these questions for a reason. They will be criticized for setting direction either way even if they are really letting a GM make that call. No owner has ever said this below in the Halifax market before: - "Whether that’s 16 or 17-year-olds that have a bright future and will win some games, lose some games, but it’s competitive on the ice and there’s a good product, that’s different than a team getting blown out every game." I think he does get it. Some died in wool junior fan is fine with the blow up seasons for a shot at the summit. Others will walk away for 2 years if they think the team is not worth their $25-$30/night if it has no chance - this response shows there is a balance and people (fans) will be angry with either extreme. But I am sure most who comment here, that are Halifax fans are fine with a young team that is allowed to make mistakes. We don't want 2016-17 Moncton though with consecutive loss streaks. So he is saying it the right way.
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Post by Citris on Apr 11, 2024 11:15:08 GMT -4
That article would concern the hell out of me if I was a Halifax fan. A proper rebuild should have nothing to do with how much you win early on in a market with educated fans. Mediocrity taking you to a forced rebuild just guts a fan base. An organic rebuild coming out of a period of success should be a natural thing with a down year or maybe even 2 to restock the cupboards. Fan support proper direction. Halifax can set itself up for a 3-4 year solid window with 2 good drafts. But not if it repeats past mistakes (Desnoyers) in the name of being competitive. I wonder if these owners understand how a deal with Moncton to sell off veteran assets was a big catalyst for this playoff run. Might be a question you get answered if a real journalist with a sports background was asking questions rather than a rapper who went through journalism school. But Global news and their pool of children reporters is a topic for another day. I have no problem with what was said. The wording of it was they want to have a team where there's something for fans to enjoy, where they're not getting blown out of the building every night. Where there's exciting 16-17 year olds to see play. I think that's the kind of rebuild most fans want. I think the Mooseheads will have a quality goaltender next year, even if it's not Rousseau, for example, if the Mooseheads trade Rousseau to Moncton for their run, Steinman would come back in the deal, or Chicoutimi with DeLefontaine, even Ruccia will likely be out there as a 20. The point being - you're likely going to have access to a 20 year old goaltender who's keeping you in 80% of games regardless. Even trading off every veteran that isn't nailed down - you're still going to have Levesque and Kilfoil, and if Cataford, Vidicek or Shultz get traded you're likely getting at least a young roster player or two back. I think ideally, Mooseheads fans want to finish in last place by 1 point with like 40 one-goal losses lol. "competitive" has different definitions depending on the context. The context used there, I at least read as "we don't want a team that other teams look forward to coming to play against." Now, granted, if there's an expectation that the Mooseheads finish like... 8th-10th, than I'm concerned.
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Post by Citris on Apr 11, 2024 11:16:13 GMT -4
Jack - depends how you read this what your take away is. There are pesimistic fans no matter the answer but he is just answering questions with the PR hat on not deciding anything here. Owners generally avoid answering these questions for a reason. They will be criticized for setting direction either way even if they are really letting a GM make that call. No owner has ever said this below in the Halifax market before: - "Whether that’s 16 or 17-year-olds that have a bright future and will win some games, lose some games, but it’s competitive on the ice and there’s a good product, that’s different than a team getting blown out every game." I think he does get it. Some died in wool junior fan is fine with the blow up seasons for a shot at the summit. Others will walk away for 2 years if they think the team is not worth their $25-$30/night if it has no chance - this response shows there is a balance and people (fans) will be angry with either extreme. But I am sure most who comment here, that are Halifax fans are fine with a young team that is allowed to make mistakes. We don't want 2016-17 Moncton though with consecutive loss streaks. So he is saying it the right way. I like how we were typing out very similar sentiments at the same time XD
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Post by Mika on Apr 11, 2024 11:32:55 GMT -4
Guess we will find out Midgely's fate next week. Will be interesting to see what happens with MacKenzie and Heelis too as I don't think they can skip by without blame for what happened down the stretch. How is it even a question at this point? Fact: He couldn't motivate a Zadina led team and got swept by an inferior (on paper) team in a series Halifax was expected to sweep. Fact: He couldn't motivate a still superior team even without Furlong and Dumais to beat an inferior team that sold like crazy at Christmas. There are two constant variables in those sweeps. One is Cam, the other is Midgley. As mentioned by someone else, Cam has had notable blunders like not trading Desnoyers. Though that argument can be made about Hulton not trading Horth or Biakabutuka. The success speaks volumes over the negatives. End of the day, shit happens sometimes, but he's built a strong contender year after year. That said; big city, big market, lots to do in Halifax. Why is attracting coaches and sometimes players such a difficult thing for them at times? I think some of that falls on Cam because there may be an internal issue with how the team is run. As for Midgley. They tried it twice and it didn't work. Move on and bring in a guy who they can trust for the rebuild and contending seasons. Have a coach that can grow with the team. And not Ducharme. I think it was pretty exposed early on in his NHL career that MacKinnon carried that team and he didn't have to do much.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 11, 2024 11:53:31 GMT -4
That article would concern the hell out of me if I was a Halifax fan. A proper rebuild should have nothing to do with how much you win early on in a market with educated fans. Mediocrity taking you to a forced rebuild just guts a fan base. An organic rebuild coming out of a period of success should be a natural thing with a down year or maybe even 2 to restock the cupboards. Fan support proper direction. Halifax can set itself up for a 3-4 year solid window with 2 good drafts. But not if it repeats past mistakes (Desnoyers) in the name of being competitive. I wonder if these owners understand how a deal with Moncton to sell off veteran assets was a big catalyst for this playoff run. Might be a question you get answered if a real journalist with a sports background was asking questions rather than a rapper who went through journalism school. But Global news and their pool of children reporters is a topic for another day. I have no problem with what was said. The wording of it was they want to have a team where there's something for fans to enjoy, where they're not getting blown out of the building every night. Where there's exciting 16-17 year olds to see play. I think that's the kind of rebuild most fans want. I think the Mooseheads will have a quality goaltender next year, even if it's not Rousseau, for example, if the Mooseheads trade Rousseau to Moncton for their run, Steinman would come back in the deal, or Chicoutimi with DeLefontaine, even Ruccia will likely be out there as a 20. The point being - you're likely going to have access to a 20 year old goaltender who's keeping you in 80% of games regardless. Even trading off every veteran that isn't nailed down - you're still going to have Levesque and Kilfoil, and if Cataford, Vidicek or Shultz get traded you're likely getting at least a young roster player or two back. I think ideally, Mooseheads fans want to finish in last place by 1 point with like 40 one-goal losses lol. "competitive" has different definitions depending on the context. The context used there, I at least read as "we don't want a team that other teams look forward to coming to play against." Now, granted, if there's an expectation that the Mooseheads finish like... 8th-10th, than I'm concerned. Ultimately the actions will speak louder than any words. I get the logic in saying you want to not bottom out. As long as thats not at the expense of the greater good...as thats really what turns fans off...but historically its buying too much when its not the right time that gets you there vs purposely selling off into no mans land. I think your market will support a proper rebuild. Its the path to getting there thats the key. Rebuilding as a proper plan will get support. Rebuilding because you had no choice but to end up there is viewed differently by fans. My fear would be not selling off enough out of fear of having a bad second half. My hope would be selling off the common sense pieces that should bring back great return even if that means 3 months of a mediocre product.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 11, 2024 11:56:10 GMT -4
Guess we will find out Midgely's fate next week. Will be interesting to see what happens with MacKenzie and Heelis too as I don't think they can skip by without blame for what happened down the stretch. How is it even a question at this point? Fact: He couldn't motivate a Zadina led team and got swept by an inferior (on paper) team in a series Halifax was expected to sweep. Fact: He couldn't motivate a still superior team even without Furlong and Dumais to beat an inferior team that sold like crazy at Christmas. There are two constant variables in those sweeps. One is Cam, the other is Midgley. As mentioned by someone else, Cam has had notable blunders like not trading Desnoyers. Though that argument can be made about Hulton not trading Horth or Biakabutuka. The success speaks volumes over the negatives. End of the day, shit happens sometimes, but he's built a strong contender year after year. That said; big city, big market, lots to do in Halifax. Why is attracting coaches and sometimes players such a difficult thing for them at times? I think some of that falls on Cam because there may be an internal issue with how the team is run. As for Midgley. They tried it twice and it didn't work. Move on and bring in a guy who they can trust for the rebuild and contending seasons. Have a coach that can grow with the team. And not Ducharme. I think it was pretty exposed early on in his NHL career that MacKinnon carried that team and he didn't have to do much. Could it be simply due to taking the time to touch base with contacts of potential coaches? Clearly a change is going to happen. But could they want to have someone else ready to go ahead of that annoucement? Or the evaluation in on Russell in which case you're looking for a hockey ops guy who can hire his own coach.
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Post by Smiley on Apr 11, 2024 12:01:50 GMT -4
That article would concern the hell out of me if I was a Halifax fan. A proper rebuild should have nothing to do with how much you win early on in a market with educated fans. Mediocrity taking you to a forced rebuild just guts a fan base. An organic rebuild coming out of a period of success should be a natural thing with a down year or maybe even 2 to restock the cupboards. Fan support proper direction. Halifax can set itself up for a 3-4 year solid window with 2 good drafts. But not if it repeats past mistakes (Desnoyers) in the name of being competitive. I wonder if these owners understand how a deal with Moncton to sell off veteran assets was a big catalyst for this playoff run. Might be a question you get answered if a real journalist with a sports background was asking questions rather than a rapper who went through journalism school. But Global news and their pool of children reporters is a topic for another day. Nice troll. He literally talks about going young with 16 and 17 yr olds that would compete. Who doesn't want that? He isn't talking about a scorched earth where you are dressing a junior A team. This is the approach that a rebuild should take, you acquire assets (draft picks and youth). It's like the Moose last rebuild, where they jumped started it with Desnoyers and L'Heureux.
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Post by statsman18 on Apr 11, 2024 12:07:51 GMT -4
Guess we will find out Midgely's fate next week. Will be interesting to see what happens with MacKenzie and Heelis too as I don't think they can skip by without blame for what happened down the stretch. How is it even a question at this point? Fact: He couldn't motivate a Zadina led team and got swept by an inferior (on paper) team in a series Halifax was expected to sweep. Fact: He couldn't motivate a still superior team even without Furlong and Dumais to beat an inferior team that sold like crazy at Christmas. There are two constant variables in those sweeps. One is Cam, the other is Midgley. As mentioned by someone else, Cam has had notable blunders like not trading Desnoyers. Though that argument can be made about Hulton not trading Horth or Biakabutuka. The success speaks volumes over the negatives. End of the day, shit happens sometimes, but he's built a strong contender year after year. That said; big city, big market, lots to do in Halifax. Why is attracting coaches and sometimes players such a difficult thing for them at times? I think some of that falls on Cam because there may be an internal issue with how the team is run. As for Midgley. They tried it twice and it didn't work. Move on and bring in a guy who they can trust for the rebuild and contending seasons. Have a coach that can grow with the team. And not Ducharme. I think it was pretty exposed early on in his NHL career that MacKinnon carried that team and he didn't have to do much. Your argument here has holes all through it. Cam didn’t not trade Desnoyers, he had a trade in place and Bobby Smith kiboshed it. Also Bobby Smith was the off ice reason coaches didn’t like it here.
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Post by yesisaiditfirst on Apr 11, 2024 12:11:00 GMT -4
Evaluate. Ask questions and use that info to decide who to fire and who are available that are improvements. You do everyone a favour by getting this done within 20 days of the last game.
Moncton let their coach go already. When you let your coach go it broadly signals "we are looking" - but there are all kinds of coveted pro jobs about to open - and that starts as soon as season ends. So the next 3 weeks are critical.
Ideally you want to have the best person recruited a month before the draft. Coaches looking to move are on the interview circuit now or whenever their season ends. Coaches yet to be fired...probably not your best options.
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Post by statsman18 on Apr 11, 2024 12:14:56 GMT -4
Guess we will find out Midgely's fate next week. Will be interesting to see what happens with MacKenzie and Heelis too as I don't think they can skip by without blame for what happened down the stretch. I’m of the opinion clean house here. As others have said special teams sucked! Usually that the assistant job to set those up and they neeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvver fixed the PP. Man PP break in was none existent. The PK was okay I guess but was that because you have Rousseau in net? Also who ever was the defence coach should he really stay? Going into the season the talk was the defence was the strength. Really IMO it was average at best. I’ve said it before I think Cam is safe but is he?
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Post by hockeydad on Apr 11, 2024 12:19:08 GMT -4
With regards to coaching going forward I think if a change is needed there is enough home town Coaches to recruit locally that we shouldn't have to look outside names like Brendon Benedict/Nick Greenough or others equal to for example might be options there has been lots of local talent that has been over looked by the Mooseheads that they hired outside only to have a coach who leaves in two or so years stating that they are too far from home and get up and leave! One of are longest lasting coaches we ever had was Shawn Mackenzie from the area
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Post by Jack Bauer on Apr 11, 2024 12:30:08 GMT -4
That article would concern the hell out of me if I was a Halifax fan. A proper rebuild should have nothing to do with how much you win early on in a market with educated fans. Mediocrity taking you to a forced rebuild just guts a fan base. An organic rebuild coming out of a period of success should be a natural thing with a down year or maybe even 2 to restock the cupboards. Fan support proper direction. Halifax can set itself up for a 3-4 year solid window with 2 good drafts. But not if it repeats past mistakes (Desnoyers) in the name of being competitive. I wonder if these owners understand how a deal with Moncton to sell off veteran assets was a big catalyst for this playoff run. Might be a question you get answered if a real journalist with a sports background was asking questions rather than a rapper who went through journalism school. But Global news and their pool of children reporters is a topic for another day. Nice troll. He literally talks about going young with 16 and 17 yr olds that would compete. Who doesn't want that? He isn't talking about a scorched earth where you are dressing a junior A team. This is the approach that a rebuild should take, you acquire assets (draft picks and youth). It's like the Moose last rebuild, where they jumped started it with Desnoyers and L'Heureux. I'm not trolling. I'm sharing an opinion. Now people are discussion it. I read some things that concerned me. I read some things that made some sense. If at Xmas time you're still running with expired assets because you want to be competitive...that can also be what he was speaking of now. That would concern me since the ownership is still lacking experience in the entire cycle of junior hockey area. Sell pieces, bring back some serviceable vets to not complete suck...that should be what everyone wants. People need to find a new definition to the word trolling. Or at least investigate some context from the poster. Saying X concerns me and you disagreeing is not trolling.
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Post by scrappycocoa on Apr 11, 2024 12:39:17 GMT -4
How is it even a question at this point? Fact: He couldn't motivate a Zadina led team and got swept by an inferior (on paper) team in a series Halifax was expected to sweep. Fact: He couldn't motivate a still superior team even without Furlong and Dumais to beat an inferior team that sold like crazy at Christmas. There are two constant variables in those sweeps. One is Cam, the other is Midgley. As mentioned by someone else, Cam has had notable blunders like not trading Desnoyers. Though that argument can be made about Hulton not trading Horth or Biakabutuka. The success speaks volumes over the negatives. End of the day, shit happens sometimes, but he's built a strong contender year after year. That said; big city, big market, lots to do in Halifax. Why is attracting coaches and sometimes players such a difficult thing for them at times? I think some of that falls on Cam because there may be an internal issue with how the team is run. As for Midgley. They tried it twice and it didn't work. Move on and bring in a guy who they can trust for the rebuild and contending seasons. Have a coach that can grow with the team. And not Ducharme. I think it was pretty exposed early on in his NHL career that MacKinnon carried that team and he didn't have to do much. Your argument here has holes all through it. Cam didn’t not trade Desnoyers, he had a trade in place and Bobby Smith kiboshed it. Also Bobby Smith was the off ice reason coaches didn’t like it here. Yes, I believe Tourigny signed a 5 year deal and left after one because he butted heads with Smith over player personnel. A rumour I heard
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Post by howitzer on Apr 11, 2024 12:56:05 GMT -4
I have no problem with that interview. As MF1994 said, I was surprised the word "rebuild" was even spoken. That's good.
Peter seems like an intelligent guy. I think they know the direction they need to go. But he has to explain it with a degree of nuance.
The fanbase can't be fooled. They will support the team provided a proper direction is taken. The wins and loses at this point in the cycle is secondary. And he kind of alluded to that.
As long as they bring in young talent, follow the process, the wins will come. We've all seen it done. Time to do it again.
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Post by statsman18 on Apr 11, 2024 14:18:14 GMT -4
Your argument here has holes all through it. Cam didn’t not trade Desnoyers, he had a trade in place and Bobby Smith kiboshed it. Also Bobby Smith was the off ice reason coaches didn’t like it here. Yes, I believe Tourigny signed a 5 year deal and left after one because he butted heads with Smith over player personnel. A rumour I heard Not a rumour! But he was a unique situation. He came from a team that he part owned was the GM and the head Coach. He was use to being the alpha and Bobby was the Alpha of the Mooseheads. That was the main problem there.
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