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Post by SteveUL on Aug 23, 2007 8:47:37 GMT -4
Playing in Europe doesn't prevent a player from making the NHL, there are countless examples of players that went back then made the NHL...2 obvious ones that I saw in Moncton were Johnny Oduya and Patrick Thoresen...Sprukts is an obvious one from Bathurst... I never said it prevents a player from making the NHL but I think that as a 19 yr old leaving to go back to Europe reduces a player's chances even more. In Barto's case he wouldn't have made it either way so why not go back to Europe and earn money playing pro hockey. He can still get scouted in Europe and if he is good enough may get a FA invite ... or even drafted as a 19 yr old like Morrison did. Plus he probably gets paid very well and doesn't have to live with a billet and under the restrictive lifestyle that comes with Major Jr. Plus ... he gets to play at home ... and that in itself can be appealing. He might like Bathurst very well ... but its not home and not even close to home. |
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Post by chsb on Aug 23, 2007 8:54:29 GMT -4
I doubt very much that Beauregard had accepted last season that he would not make the NHL and playing alongside Perreault did exactly give a 2nd jump to his pro chances. Bartos at 19 enjoyed the same opportunity and it looks like he will not jump on it but rather let it pass by his way side......I guess that it is his prerogative but I know that Svoboda jumped on his chance.... As far as tarring Roy and Morneau, I would like you to point out where I did this because I always have been quite positive about these players. Carle and Vienneau is another story and I will not change one iota from my stance on the Carle trade nor the Vienneau decision to ask to be traded and jump ship..... You should know that a lot of Titan fans do feel that way. Beauregard was much different he was like Laliberte where his injury impacted his NHL dream and it was in his best interest to return for one more year of dominance. Which turned out to be the right move for both of them. Now both are on one-way AHL contracts instead of AHL-ECHL contracts that I believe both were offered at the begining of last season. The difference is that playing in the CHL at 19 & 20 can still lead you to the NHL. Lots of players aren't drafted but work towards pro contracts with aspirations of still making the NHL. But leaving the CHL to go back to Europe is pretty much giving up on that NHL dream. As I said if Bartos doesn't return I think his decision has nothing to do with Perreault and simply if he doesn't think he can make the NHL why not move back home and play pro hockey for real money. As Billy said you seem to always play up new Bathurst players to the extreme and as soon as they leave you discount their skill or question their character. Some other examples are Duscheneau, Bordeleau and Pomerleau. Where did I discount Pomerleau or Duchesneau? Bordeleau I questioned him before he landed in Bathurst. Billy said that he was a ppg player and that he played physical and I maintained that he was not known for his physical game anywhere he went in spite of his size. I asked you for links and you still did not provide any..... If I could give you a link to the Acadie Nouvelle today's edition, I would. In it it is clearly written that the Titan are not pleased and that Bartos will habe serious explanations to give at his return and that sanctions could be imposed depending on the nature of the delay.... I did not make anything about Bartos, he created his own situation and Titan fans are not pleased. Am I pulling the trigger too fast? We will see in the next week or so. |
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Post by SteveUL on Aug 23, 2007 9:16:46 GMT -4
Beauregard was much different he was like Laliberte where his injury impacted his NHL dream and it was in his best interest to return for one more year of dominance. Which turned out to be the right move for both of them. Now both are on one-way AHL contracts instead of AHL-ECHL contracts that I believe both were offered at the begining of last season. The difference is that playing in the CHL at 19 & 20 can still lead you to the NHL. Lots of players aren't drafted but work towards pro contracts with aspirations of still making the NHL. But leaving the CHL to go back to Europe is pretty much giving up on that NHL dream. As I said if Bartos doesn't return I think his decision has nothing to do with Perreault and simply if he doesn't think he can make the NHL why not move back home and play pro hockey for real money. As Billy said you seem to always play up new Bathurst players to the extreme and as soon as they leave you discount their skill or question their character. Some other examples are Duscheneau, Bordeleau and Pomerleau. Where did I discount Pomerleau or Duchesneau? Bordeleau I questioned him before he landed in Bathurst. Billy said that he was a ppg player and that he played physical and I maintained that he was not known for his physical game anywhere he went in spite of his size. I asked you for links and you still did not provide any..... If I could give you a link to the Acadie Nouvelle today's edition, I would. In it it is clearly written that the Titan are not pleased and that Bartos will habe serious explanations to give at his return and that sanctions could be imposed depending on the nature of the delay.... I did not make anything about Bartos, he created his own situation and Titan fans are not pleased. Am I pulling the trigger too fast? We will see in the next week or so. Monday at noon is the deadline to offer 19 yr olds a roster spot ... I wonder if Bartos qualifies for that deadline or would his Euro status exempt him from that ? |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 23, 2007 9:30:29 GMT -4
Where did I discount Pomerleau or Duchesneau? Bordeleau I questioned him before he landed in Bathurst. Billy said that he was a ppg player and that he played physical and I maintained that he was not known for his physical game anywhere he went in spite of his size. I asked you for links and you still did not provide any..... If I could give you a link to the Acadie Nouvelle today's edition, I would. In it it is clearly written that the Titan are not pleased and that Bartos will habe serious explanations to give at his return and that sanctions could be imposed depending on the nature of the delay.... I did not make anything about Bartos, he created his own situation and Titan fans are not pleased. Am I pulling the trigger too fast? We will see in the next week or so. Monday at noon is the deadline to offer 19 yr olds a roster spot ... I wonder if Bartos qualifies for that deadline or would his Euro status exempt him from that ? It doesn't affect him if he hasn't showed up at camp. It's the same as Chris Bourque or NCAA guys, Bathurst is offering him a spot he just hasn't come yet. |
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Post by IslandersHKY on Aug 23, 2007 9:49:03 GMT -4
Where did I discount Pomerleau or Duchesneau? Bordeleau I questioned him before he landed in Bathurst. Billy said that he was a ppg player and that he played physical and I maintained that he was not known for his physical game anywhere he went in spite of his size. I asked you for links and you still did not provide any..... You post so much it is hard to find good links to what you were saying but just for the hell of it I went back and read your preseason predictions/casual updates and dates around when players were traded for a few guys. And so as requested here are a few quotes that I quickly pulled to prove my point. Here is what you said about Pomerleau when he leftQuote: "Pomerleau, was more or less a PP specialist and a #4th-5th regular shift D next season.... his role would have been rather limited. IMPO, if this deal is true, it is more a matter of usefulness on the team for him than anything else explaining that trade. Apart from Tesink, just about every other D is more mobile than Pomerleau and every team needs mobility on D with the rule changes." But before the draft and the announcement of the trade here is what you were saying about Pomerleau and how the defense ranked: Defense: Labrie,Pomerleau,Sigouin,Desnoyers,Tesink,Renaud. From what I see in these playoffs, the defense should not need a PP QB as Pomerleau/Labrie fit the need and Desnoyers can chip in....With them our PP is running at 26.9% since the start of the playoffs which is a big advantage. Here is what you were saying about Bordelau when it was suggested that Duchesneau was going to be traded Drummonville to upgrade on Bordelau.Quote: "Bordeleau is not near as good as Duchesneau...I don't know why someone would bring such an opinion" As well as a response to Billy that Well, here are some clues for you: Bordeleau was drafted by the Wild for his physical game. He showed so much of it in the last two years that he was not even invited to the Wilds camp... He was booed in VD on a regular basis because of his lack of intensity and physical game for his size. Also he was very inconsistent. He reminds me of Simon Bolduc but very little intensity. A month later after Bordeleau was traded to Bathurst were talking how he great he looked on the first line and were predicting him to score 32 goals from Nov to the end of the season. Although I admit I might have been wrong about what you said about Duscheneau as in that thread your only real argument was that he shouldn't stay even though at the start of the season you considered him one of the league's top offensive players. But with so many posts you could have made other comments about the Duschneau trade that I couldn't find. And this didn’t take anytime because I just pulled your preseason prediction threads and looked for the threads discussing the trades involving Pomerleau, Duscheneau and Bordeleau. There are lots of other examples about other players or other comments buried in other threads. So as requested I think those couple of your quotes support my opinion that you genereally over-hype new Titan players and discount most who leave. |
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Post by bois on Aug 23, 2007 9:55:20 GMT -4
everyone knows that why bother "proving" it?
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Post by chsb on Aug 23, 2007 10:02:58 GMT -4
Where did I discount Pomerleau or Duchesneau? Bordeleau I questioned him before he landed in Bathurst. Billy said that he was a ppg player and that he played physical and I maintained that he was not known for his physical game anywhere he went in spite of his size. I asked you for links and you still did not provide any..... You post so much it is hard to find good links to what you were saying but just for the hell of it I went back and read your preseason predictions/casual updates and dates around when players were traded for a few guys. And so as requested here are a few quotes that I quickly pulled to prove my point. Here is what you said about Pomerleau when he leftQuote: "Pomerleau, was more or less a PP specialist and a #4th-5th regular shift D next season.... his role would have been rather limited. IMPO, if this deal is true, it is more a matter of usefulness on the team for him than anything else explaining that trade. Apart from Tesink, just about every other D is more mobile than Pomerleau and every team needs mobility on D with the rule changes." But before the draft and the announcement of the trade here is what you were saying about Pomerleau and how the defense ranked: Defense: Labrie,Pomerleau,Sigouin,Desnoyers,Tesink,Renaud. From what I see in these playoffs, the defense should not need a PP QB as Pomerleau/Labrie fit the need and Desnoyers can chip in....With them our PP is running at 26.9% since the start of the playoffs which is a big advantage. Here is what you were saying about Bordelau when it was suggested that Duchesneau was going to be traded Drummonville to upgrade on Bordelau.Quote: "Bordeleau is not near as good as Duchesneau...I don't know why someone would bring such an opinion" As well as a response to Billy that Well, here are some clues for you: Bordeleau was drafted by the Wild for his physical game. He showed so much of it in the last two years that he was not even invited to the Wilds camp... He was booed in VD on a regular basis because of his lack of intensity and physical game for his size. Also he was very inconsistent. He reminds me of Simon Bolduc but very little intensity. A month later after Bordeleau was traded to Bathurst were talking how he great he looked on the first line and were predicting him to score 32 goals from Nov to the end of the season. Although I admit I might have been wrong about what you said about Duscheneau as in that thread your only real argument was that he shouldn't stay even though at the start of the season you considered him one of the league's top offensive players. But with so many posts you could have made other comments about the Duschneau trade that I couldn't find. And this didn’t take anytime because I just pulled your preseason prediction threads and looked for the threads discussing the trades involving Pomerleau, Duscheneau and Bordeleau. There are lots of other examples about other players or other comments buried in other threads. So as requested I think those couple of your quotes support my opinion that you genereally over-hype new Titan players and discount most who leave. In all this, you actually showed a very steady stance on my part, that Pomerleau was a #4-5 D with little mobility,......but a very good PP specialist and I never changed my stance on that. All what you brought forward enhances my point. As for Bordeleau, I was not fond of him before he showed up, not fond of him really except that he produced ppg for a while playing with Perreault and Beauregard and always have been very steadily declining his physical game. You brought very little to nothing with these quotes.... |
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Post by IslandersHKY on Aug 23, 2007 11:40:43 GMT -4
everyone knows that why bother "proving" it? My appolgizes Bois you are right and clearly it was a complete waste of 15 mins. |
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Aug 23, 2007 11:48:04 GMT -4
You post so much it is hard to find good links to what you were saying but just for the hell of it I went back and read your preseason predictions/casual updates and dates around when players were traded for a few guys. And so as requested here are a few quotes that I quickly pulled to prove my point. Here is what you said about Pomerleau when he leftQuote: "Pomerleau, was more or less a PP specialist and a #4th-5th regular shift D next season.... his role would have been rather limited. IMPO, if this deal is true, it is more a matter of usefulness on the team for him than anything else explaining that trade. Apart from Tesink, just about every other D is more mobile than Pomerleau and every team needs mobility on D with the rule changes." But before the draft and the announcement of the trade here is what you were saying about Pomerleau and how the defense ranked: Defense: Labrie,Pomerleau,Sigouin,Desnoyers,Tesink,Renaud. From what I see in these playoffs, the defense should not need a PP QB as Pomerleau/Labrie fit the need and Desnoyers can chip in....With them our PP is running at 26.9% since the start of the playoffs which is a big advantage. Here is what you were saying about Bordelau when it was suggested that Duchesneau was going to be traded Drummonville to upgrade on Bordelau.Quote: "Bordeleau is not near as good as Duchesneau...I don't know why someone would bring such an opinion" As well as a response to Billy that Well, here are some clues for you: Bordeleau was drafted by the Wild for his physical game. He showed so much of it in the last two years that he was not even invited to the Wilds camp... He was booed in VD on a regular basis because of his lack of intensity and physical game for his size. Also he was very inconsistent. He reminds me of Simon Bolduc but very little intensity. A month later after Bordeleau was traded to Bathurst were talking how he great he looked on the first line and were predicting him to score 32 goals from Nov to the end of the season. Although I admit I might have been wrong about what you said about Duscheneau as in that thread your only real argument was that he shouldn't stay even though at the start of the season you considered him one of the league's top offensive players. But with so many posts you could have made other comments about the Duschneau trade that I couldn't find. And this didn’t take anytime because I just pulled your preseason prediction threads and looked for the threads discussing the trades involving Pomerleau, Duscheneau and Bordeleau. There are lots of other examples about other players or other comments buried in other threads. So as requested I think those couple of your quotes support my opinion that you genereally over-hype new Titan players and discount most who leave. In all this, you actually showed a very steady stance on my part, that Pomerleau was a #4-5 D with little mobility,......but a very good PP specialist and I never changed my stance on that. All what you brought forward enhances my point. As for Bordeleau, I was not fond of him before he showed up, not fond of him really except that he produced ppg for a while playing with Perreault and Beauregard and always have been very steadily declining his physical game. You brought very little to nothing with these quotes.... I would expect a "PP specialist" to have some mobility, especially on defense... Bottom line is you had him as the #2 defenseman and PP guy... then said he had no mobility and was a 4-5 guy later |
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Post by mikeb on Aug 23, 2007 12:09:51 GMT -4
In all this, you actually showed a very steady stance on my part, that Pomerleau was a #4-5 D with little mobility,......but a very good PP specialist and I never changed my stance on that. All what you brought forward enhances my point. As for Bordeleau, I was not fond of him before he showed up, not fond of him really except that he produced ppg for a while playing with Perreault and Beauregard and always have been very steadily declining his physical game. You brought very little to nothing with these quotes.... I would expect a "PP specialist" to have some mobility, especially on defense... Bottom line is you had him as the #2 defenseman and PP guy... then said he had no mobility and was a 4-5 guy later Wasting your time. |
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Post by faceoff on Aug 23, 2007 13:40:00 GMT -4
I would expect a "PP specialist" to have some mobility, especially on defense... Bottom line is you had him as the #2 defenseman and PP guy... then said he had no mobility and was a 4-5 guy later Wasting your time. Man!! It looks like lots of people have lots of spare time on their hands  |
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Post by Jack Bauer on Aug 23, 2007 13:49:51 GMT -4
Man!! It looks like lots of people have lots of spare time on their hands Why because they proved chsb wrong? That does not take a lot of time. |
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Post by titan_insider on Aug 23, 2007 13:55:09 GMT -4
to come back to the subject of discussion, which is supposedly Martin Bartos, I think everyone agrees that his not showing up would be a major loss to the team...
yes some players could take up some slack but it still does not diminish the effect his absence would have on our season...
Martin was a good kid here last year and I have nothing but good things to say about him and hope that he does return real soon so we can put this whole thing behind us and move on...
oh and CHSB, if I remember correctly, you were one of the guys that kept pointing out last year that during the 2nd half of the season, Martin was probably our most consistent player night in and night out so yes he will sorely be missed...
as for Steve and Billy, you guys kept saying how Bartos was only a good player because he was getting PP points with Perry and BEAU so you two should agree with CHSB's wrong comments...ahaha
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Post by chsb on Aug 23, 2007 14:40:18 GMT -4
In all this, you actually showed a very steady stance on my part, that Pomerleau was a #4-5 D with little mobility,......but a very good PP specialist and I never changed my stance on that. All what you brought forward enhances my point. As for Bordeleau, I was not fond of him before he showed up, not fond of him really except that he produced ppg for a while playing with Perreault and Beauregard and always have been very steadily declining his physical game. You brought very little to nothing with these quotes.... I would expect a "PP specialist" to have some mobility, especially on defense... Bottom line is you had him as the #2 defenseman and PP guy... then said he had no mobility and was a 4-5 guy later I always maintained that Pomerleau was lacking mobility to be a #2....you are actually fabricating stuff.... Now if you want examples of PP defensemen with lack of mobility, I will suggest that you refer to Bisaillon from the Foreurs last season and Gonchar from Pittsburgh. I would also suggest that you stop playing with words as suggesting "some mobility"...I never said that Pomerleau had NO mobility, but rather limited mobility like Bisaillon and other examples I am sure we could find. Pomerleau's shot was the most accurate on the Titan team and his one-timer release was excellent. Therefore I am sure that he will be a nice addition to the Devils PP. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 23, 2007 14:43:28 GMT -4
I'm not making him out to be any better or worse...I think they have the depth to still be a top 3 team without him, but it will cost the team about 25 goals over the course of the year(player X moving from the 2nd to 1st line, then player Y moving from the 3rd to the 2nd etc)...maybe costs up to 5-6pts in the standings.
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