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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 12, 2007 13:13:30 GMT -4
are you serious?  Were you not one of the people arguing with me that Bartos played a lot on the 2nd line and not much of his success was due to Perreault and Beauregard? Did you not also point out that Bartos was a big cog in your offense the second half, even going so far as to say he was your best player? The 25 goals lost were not all HIS goals, they were 25 goals generated. Both by scoring and playmaking. I think that's a resaonable assessment of what he means to your offense. Had you lost Perreault, that's a 45-50 goal loss on your offense. Yes, he benefitted from excellent linemates, especially on the PP, but he is still a player that's clearly above average...you don't replace him simply by moving Faille from 3rd line to the top 2. You had him pegged for 100 points and now his loss is nothing...PRICELESS!!!!!!!! Of the 100 points I was predicitng Bartos to have, I always predicted 30-35 goals.... If you know otherwise, please show your sources. Bartos is more a playmaker than a goal scorer...and it showed multiple times last season....he could have buried easily 40 goals + if he had been a sniper. So at 35-65-100 for Bartos...you don't think taking him completely out of your lineup hurts your offense by 25 goals minimum? |
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Post by chsb on Sept 12, 2007 13:15:09 GMT -4
Of the 100 points I was predicitng Bartos to have, I always predicted 30-35 goals.... If you know otherwise, please show your sources. Bartos is more a playmaker than a goal scorer...and it showed multiple times last season....he could have buried easily 40 goals + if he had been a sniper. Don't you think though, given that prediction, that losing his 65-70 assists along with his 30-35 goals is going to significantly affect your offence? I don't think the 25 less goals that billy is predicting is a stretch at all. How is that a fact? Have you seen Svoboda play with Perreault? Massé is gonna step up no doubt and Messier is stepping into a pivotal hockey season for his potential pro career..... I will not say that Bartos is not a loss, but, by reading some people outside the Titan fan base, we are left with the impression that the sky has fallen off.... Very far from that the Titan do have the internal resources to alleviate tremendously if not totally anihilate his loss. |
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Post by titan_insider on Sept 12, 2007 13:17:10 GMT -4
Actually last season, Bartos scored 24 goals playing all season aside Perreault, 17 of these goals on PP where he played all season with Perreault. I fail to see how you could predict 40 goals to him this season in the same conditions....I was at the most projecting 30-35 goals in all my predictions. Massé, on the other hand,scored 26 goals playing 2nd line, of which only 7 were scored on PP. Messier, on the other hand, scored 27 goals in BC playing 3rd line. These two players qualify as well or better to replace Bartos in the goal scoring department on the first line. The only difference on the team, as I indicated before, will be on the 3rd liner taking any of these two spot on the 2nd line. Therefore I fail to see where there would be a 25 goals differential loss in goals scored without Bartos....at most 10-15 and maybe no difference at all if others do step up as expected.... My expectations for the Titan have not changed much following the Bartos news and I know for a fact that I know much better the team than Surrette... are you serious? Were you not one of the people arguing with me that Bartos played a lot on the 2nd line and not much of his success was due to Perreault and Beauregard? Did you not also point out that Bartos was a big cog in your offense the second half, even going so far as to say he was your best player? The 25 goals lost were not all HIS goals, they were 25 goals generated. Both by scoring and playmaking. I think that's a resaonable assessment of what he means to your offense. Had you lost Perreault, that's a 45-50 goal loss on your offense. Yes, he benefitted from excellent linemates, especially on the PP, but he is still a player that's clearly above average...you don't replace him simply by moving Faille from 3rd line to the top 2. You had him pegged for 100 points and now his loss is nothing...PRICELESS!!!!!!!! And YOU kept saying last year that he was only getting points because of Perry and Beau so you are pretty much acting the same way.... |
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Sept 12, 2007 13:17:56 GMT -4
Just a thought... If Masse scores 26 golas to replace Bartos' total from last year...then who replaces Masse's total from last year? Don't you think that one of Joly/Mailloux/Faille/Grenache can at least score 20 goals while playing 2nd line? Joly scored 15 goals playing 3rd line last season and Mailloux 17 playing 3rd line. As i wrote already, no doubt that Massé or Messier can come up with Bartos' goal scoring on the first line and the real concern if about who will step up on the 2nd line. Even so I am not too concerned knowing that one of the 4 mentioned above can score 20 goals+ on the 2nd line...... So you are arguing here that Bartos was nearly a 70 assist man... but then you argue his GOALS will be replaced, even though its not goals that you think he offered, but playmaking... Who will replace the 70 assists? |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 12, 2007 13:20:48 GMT -4
Just a thought... If Masse scores 26 golas to replace Bartos' total from last year...then who replaces Masse's total from last year? Don't you think that one of Joly/Mailloux/Faille/Grenache can at least score 20 goals while playing 2nd line? Joly scored 15 goals playing 3rd line last season and Mailloux 17 playing 3rd line. As i wrote already, no doubt that Massé or Messier can come up with Bartos' goal scoring on the first line and the real concern if about who will step up on the 2nd line. Even so I am not too concerned knowing that one of the 4 mentioned above can score 20 goals+ on the 2nd line...... So let's say for arguments sake that you can move Messier to the 1st line and he matches Bartos goal scoring, don't you lose because he is not nearly as good a playmaker? Doesn't your 2nd line lose a few goals going from Messier to Joly? Doesn't your 3rd line suffer offensively going from Joly to whomever replaces him from the 4th line? How about on the PP, taking out Beauregard and Bartos plus Carle(1st half) from last year? |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 12, 2007 13:23:34 GMT -4
Don't you think though, given that prediction, that losing his 65-70 assists along with his 30-35 goals is going to significantly affect your offence? I don't think the 25 less goals that billy is predicting is a stretch at all. How is that a fact? Have you seen Svoboda play with Perreault? Massé is gonna step up no doubt and Messier is stepping into a pivotal hockey season for his potential pro career..... I will not say that Bartos is not a loss, but, by reading some people outside the Titan fan base, we are left with the impression that the sky has fallen off.... Very far from that the Titan do have the internal resources to alleviate tremendously if not totally anihilate his loss. No team has the ressources to just replace a 100 point guy and not feel any loss. If you think that you are living in a dream world. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 12, 2007 13:25:11 GMT -4
are you serious? Were you not one of the people arguing with me that Bartos played a lot on the 2nd line and not much of his success was due to Perreault and Beauregard? Did you not also point out that Bartos was a big cog in your offense the second half, even going so far as to say he was your best player? The 25 goals lost were not all HIS goals, they were 25 goals generated. Both by scoring and playmaking. I think that's a resaonable assessment of what he means to your offense. Had you lost Perreault, that's a 45-50 goal loss on your offense. Yes, he benefitted from excellent linemates, especially on the PP, but he is still a player that's clearly above average...you don't replace him simply by moving Faille from 3rd line to the top 2. You had him pegged for 100 points and now his loss is nothing...PRICELESS!!!!!!!! And YOU kept saying last year that he was only getting points because of Perry and Beau so you are pretty much acting the same way.... How am I acting the same way? I said playing with those 2 boosted his totals, I didn't say he was a dud that could be replaced my moving up somebody from the 3rd line. ...and I said they are losing 25 goals, not 50. Try and have some common sense here. |
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Post by Krang7 on Sept 12, 2007 13:25:23 GMT -4
No team has the ressources to just replace a 100 point guy and not feel any loss. If you think that you are living in a dream world. I was trying to think up something to say but I couldn't think of the right words. That sums it up just about perfectly. |
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Post by chsb on Sept 12, 2007 13:37:43 GMT -4
How is that a fact? Have you seen Svoboda play with Perreault? Massé is gonna step up no doubt and Messier is stepping into a pivotal hockey season for his potential pro career..... I will not say that Bartos is not a loss, but, by reading some people outside the Titan fan base, we are left with the impression that the sky has fallen off.... Very far from that the Titan do have the internal resources to alleviate tremendously if not totally anihilate his loss. No team has the ressources to just replace a 100 point guy and not feel any loss. If you think that you are living in a dream world. Why can't you read me properly? "I will not say that Bartos is not a loss"......is EXACTLY what I wrote above....... Simply put he is not a 25 goals loss to the Titan.... For that you simply need to check the season we are getting in....if the Titan score 266 goals or less, you will have been right. If they score above 275, I will have been right. Also, for the time being, the Titan do not intend to look outside the team to replace Bartos. Bartos is a 10-15 goals loss at top.....no loss is also very possible. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 12, 2007 13:50:24 GMT -4
No team has the ressources to just replace a 100 point guy and not feel any loss. If you think that you are living in a dream world. Why can't you read me properly? "I will not say that Bartos is not a loss"......is EXACTLY what I wrote above....... Simply put he is not a 25 goals loss to the Titan.... For that you simply need to check the season we are getting in....if the Titan score 266 goals or less, you will have been right. If they score above 275, I will have been right. Also, for the time being, the Titan do not intend to look outside the team to replace Bartos. Bartos is a 10-15 goals loss at top.....no loss is also very possible. You contradict yourself in the same post...first you say you never said he wasn't a loss then you finish by saying 10-15 goals...BUT MAYBE NONE AT ALL. It doesn't work that way...you can't in one breath predict a player for 100 points and in the next say he can be replaced using 2nd and 3rd liners. You are so blinded by the Titan jersey that you lose all sense of logic. |
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Post by chsb on Sept 12, 2007 13:54:33 GMT -4
Why can't you read me properly? "I will not say that Bartos is not a loss"......is EXACTLY what I wrote above....... Simply put he is not a 25 goals loss to the Titan.... For that you simply need to check the season we are getting in....if the Titan score 266 goals or less, you will have been right. If they score above 275, I will have been right. Also, for the time being, the Titan do not intend to look outside the team to replace Bartos. Bartos is a 10-15 goals loss at top.....no loss is also very possible. You contradict yourself in the same post...first you say you never said he wasn't a loss then you finish by saying 10-15 goals...BUT MAYBE NONE AT ALL. It doesn't work that way...you can't in one breath predict a player for 100 points and in the next say he can be replaced using 2nd and 3rd liners. You are so blinded by the Titan jersey that you lose all sense of logic. You failed to show me where I predicted 40 goals plus to Bartos! You also failed to show me how Massé or Messier could not score as much as Bartos on the first line! You are actually trying to overblow his loss and everybody can read into you....... Bartos could or could not be a loss depending on how the rest of the team responds.... The size of the potential loss is what I argue with you about.... |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 12, 2007 14:01:52 GMT -4
You contradict yourself in the same post...first you say you never said he wasn't a loss then you finish by saying 10-15 goals...BUT MAYBE NONE AT ALL. It doesn't work that way...you can't in one breath predict a player for 100 points and in the next say he can be replaced using 2nd and 3rd liners. You are so blinded by the Titan jersey that you lose all sense of logic. You failed to show me where I predicted 40 goals plus to Bartos! You also failed to show me how Massé or Messier could not score as much as Bartos on the first line! You are actually trying to overblow his loss and everybody can read into you....... Bartos could or could not be a loss depending on how the rest of the team responds.... The size of the potential loss is what I argue with you about.... Why would I have to show you where you predicted 40+ goals? What you don't seem to grasp is that as you move players up to bigger roles/higher lines, you lose that player on the other line. Even if you could move a player from the 2nd line who was as good, you'd still be weakening your 2nd line....same goes for the 3rd liner moving up to the 2nd line and so on. If the players on the 4th line were as good as the 1st, they wouldn't be on the 4th in the first place. I find if funny you use the term "everybody" when you are the only clueless one arguning that Bartos loss with be next to nothing or nothing at all. I'm sure some Bathurst fans feel his loss costs you more than 25 goals over the course of a season. |
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Post by SteveUL on Sept 12, 2007 14:32:30 GMT -4
Just a thought... If Masse scores 26 golas to replace Bartos' total from last year...then who replaces Masse's total from last year? Don't you think that one of Joly/Mailloux/Faille/Grenache can at least score 20 goals while playing 2nd line? Joly scored 15 goals playing 3rd line last season and Mailloux 17 playing 3rd line. As i wrote already, no doubt that Massé or Messier can come up with Bartos' goal scoring on the first line and the real concern if about who will step up on the 2nd line. Even so I am not too concerned knowing that one of the 4 mentioned above can score 20 goals+ on the 2nd line...... But which one of those guys is going to set up the 65 or 70 goals that you had Bartos handling ? Losing a playmaker can really squelch an offense. Steve Bernier playing with Thoresen vs playing with Glode was just not the same threat. You have Bartos figuring in on 100 goals ... unless Masse is going to jump to 100 pts to fill that void (maybe ... doubtful) ... and Faille is going to jump to 80 to fill Masse's void on line 2 (yeah right) ... and Critchlow (or whomever) is going to get 40 pts to fill in for Faille on line 3 (possible) ... and so on ... |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Sept 12, 2007 14:37:40 GMT -4
Just a thought... If Masse scores 26 golas to replace Bartos' total from last year...then who replaces Masse's total from last year? Don't you think that one of Joly/Mailloux/Faille/Grenache can at least score 20 goals while playing 2nd line? Joly scored 15 goals playing 3rd line last season and Mailloux 17 playing 3rd line. As i wrote already, no doubt that Massé or Messier can come up with Bartos' goal scoring on the first line and the real concern if about who will step up on the 2nd line. Even so I am not too concerned knowing that one of the 4 mentioned above can score 20 goals+ on the 2nd line...... Just a small point, Mailloux played on the 2nd and 3rd lines in RN, their lines were not set and seemed to change a lot. He'll ahve a hard time matching his 17 goal total unless he spends a lot of time on the treadmill and changes from the McDonalds to the Subway diet, he's up to 243 from 220-225 he was last year. |
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Post by chsb on Sept 12, 2007 14:39:56 GMT -4
Don't you think that one of Joly/Mailloux/Faille/Grenache can at least score 20 goals while playing 2nd line? Joly scored 15 goals playing 3rd line last season and Mailloux 17 playing 3rd line. As i wrote already, no doubt that Massé or Messier can come up with Bartos' goal scoring on the first line and the real concern if about who will step up on the 2nd line. Even so I am not too concerned knowing that one of the 4 mentioned above can score 20 goals+ on the 2nd line...... But which one of those guys is going to set up the 65 or 70 goals that you had Bartos handling ? Losing a playmaker can really squelch an offense. Steve Bernier playing with Thoresen vs playing with Glode was just not the same threat. You have Bartos figuring in on 100 goals ... unless Masse is going to jump to 100 pts to fill that void (maybe ... doubtful) ... and Faille is going to jump to 80 to fill Masse's void on line 2 (yeah right) ... and Critchlow (or whomever) is going to get 40 pts to fill in for Faille on line 3 (possible) ... and so on ... Funny how yourself and Billy were coming on the other Board last season telling that Bartos had a lot od secondary assists from Perreault and Beauregard and now you come on here telling how tremendous of a loss he is...... Bartos at his top last season was an excellent asset. Bartos cruising around was another thing. Bartos at its best, I will say would be a loss no doubt. But he has showed before that he is not consistent. I really believe that a Messier(with a good work ethic) or Massé(with the same work ethic) would sum up to pretty good..... I also indicated that the Titan have the depth to alleviate Bartos' loss....funnily you and Billy fail to address that part. |
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