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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 29, 2009 17:19:58 GMT -4
Montreal would give up Allen, plus Wall (who they said they wont trade) and Dion who is only 18 And they get Shaw (overrated), Roy, 2 draft picks and Mieuller at draft. Its lopsided in CB's favour. It's not that lopsided. Roy in terms of trade value, is worth more than Allen. He's not as good right now, but he's 18. If nothing else it's a wash. What's left is Wall and Dion, vs Shaw, 2 picks and Meilleur at the draft. Where it makes no sense for Vincent(unless they flip Roy or Berube for big return) is they already have an 18 year old looking for more starts.
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Post by howitzer on Dec 29, 2009 17:42:01 GMT -4
Possible good news for Halifax regarding the potential trading of Knotek. Cousineau is heading to Saint John, and Jake Allen to Cape Breton. It's possible Quebec could pick up Gelinas (dumping Stefanovic) and that's a team Knotek might report to. It's also possible Quebec opts for Berube out of Montreal, because I don't see Vincent keeping both he and Roy. You'd think if Cam went as far as to state publically that he wasn't trading Knotek, then he has probably already made up his mind on the matter. Sure things could change, but you'd think he would have explored everything, and gone over possible scenarios which could led to him moving Knotek, before coming out and saying he wasn't trading him. That being said, I do agree that one of the few, if not the only team, Knotek would possibly go to would be Quebec, so one never does know.
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Post by Murph on Dec 29, 2009 18:13:40 GMT -4
It's not that lopsided. Roy in terms of trade value, is worth more than Allen. He's not as good right now, but he's 18. If nothing else it's a wash. What's left is Wall and Dion, vs Shaw, 2 picks and Meilleur at the draft. Where it makes no sense for Vincent(unless they flip Roy or Berube for big return) is they already have an 18 year old looking for more starts. Yeah I don't know what's going on there. I would assume he has (or will have) a deal lined up to move Berbube. I would guess the Eagles wouldn`t deal Roy, knowing Vincent would be flipping him to Quebec or something.
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Post by lalalaprise on Dec 29, 2009 18:17:49 GMT -4
Plus, he said earlier that Wall was untouchable...not to the media, but to a GM in the league. And he has the largest trade chip on the market and all he can get for him plus someone who he deemed untouchable, and an 18 year old who wears a latter is Roy, Shaw and a couple picks plus Mieuller at 20?
Shaw plus 1 pick is = Dion That leaves Allen, Wall + pick = Roy and Mieuller at draft
I dont care how anyone spins it, MTL gets hosed in this deal.
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Post by Murph on Dec 29, 2009 18:53:22 GMT -4
Plus, he said earlier that Wall was untouchable...not to the media, but to a GM in the league. And he has the largest trade chip on the market and all he can get for him plus someone who he deemed untouchable, and an 18 year old who wears a latter is Roy, Shaw and a couple picks plus Mieuller at 20? Shaw plus 1 pick is = Dion That leaves Allen, Wall + pick = Roy and Mieuller at draft I dont care how anyone spins it, MTL gets hosed in this deal. I care how you spin it! That`s not the deal! Its not Allen, Wall plus a pick vs Roy and Meilleur at the draft.... it`s Allen and Wall vs Roy, the pick and Meilleur.... plus you don`t even know what the picks are. Shaw plus a pick might equal Dion.... but not if it`s Shaw and a 1st. Let`s say it`s Shaw and a 2nd (as of right now, nobody knows what rounds the picks are, correct?). To me, that still bests Dion`s value. If it`s Shaw and a 4th, then okay, you`ve got a point. But unless you know what the picks are, it`s a silly argument at this time. So if Roy and Allen are a wash.... You have Wall vs a pick plus Meilleur at the draft. What if the pick is a 1st? Montreal doesn`t need Wall the rest of the year. Their year is done. So from their perspective, it`s Wall as a 20, vs Meilleur as a 20. Who`s better straight up? It`s pretty close IMO. If you could pick between the two, you might pick Wall. But if you could pick between Wall, or Meilleur and a draft pick, would you not pick Meilleur? And again, we don`t even know what the pick is. As far as telling a GM Wall was untouchable, boo-hoo. Nobody`s untouchable, especially a player like Alex Wall. If a GM calls and is told a player he wants is untouchable, and leaves it at that, that`s his problem. Maybe they weren`t looking to move him. Maybe they rejected what one GM thought was a solid offer. But guys like Alex Wall aren`t untouchable. Perhaps Cape Breton made them an offer they couldn`t refuse? At this point, until the deal is announced (and the picks revealled), nobody knows.
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Post by lalalaprise on Dec 29, 2009 19:02:06 GMT -4
You are calling it a good deal before you know which picks they are too The early indications are its a bad deal for Montreal based on assuming there are 2 picks...and im assuming its a 2nd and 3rd rd pick... I guess we will have to wait and see. And for the record...id rather Dion than Shaw and a 2nd... Perhaps there in lies the problem...I like Dion and Wall quite a bit and I dont think Roy and Allen are a wash.
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Post by Murph on Dec 29, 2009 19:38:32 GMT -4
You are calling it a good deal before you know which picks they are too The early indications are its a bad deal for Montreal based on assuming there are 2 picks...and im assuming its a 2nd and 3rd rd pick... I guess we will have to wait and see. And for the record...id rather Dion than Shaw and a 2nd... Perhaps there in lies the problem...I like Dion and Wall quite a bit and I dont think Roy and Allen are a wash. I never said it was a good deal! You jumped the gun, and said they got "hosed" and deal was "lopsided". Dion vs Shaw... both are/were over rated IMO. Both are decent character guys, that exempt some grit, but for as better as Dion is now, he's also a year older. While I'd take Dion over Shaw straight up, even factoring age, I wouldn't take Dion vs Shaw plus a pick or anything of significance..... and I wouldn't take Dion over a 2nd rounder, if that is in fact what the pick is, let alone Shaw on top of it. Roy and Allen as a wash? Roy will be worth this time next year, as much as Allen is right now (maybe slightly less). But if I'm Montreal, I'd rather take the extra year of Roy and see what happens. Right now, there's no question who's better. Plus if Vincent gets something for Berube, that factors in. If he keeps Allen and moves Berube, he's screwed beyond this year. I like Wall too, but he's not worth Meilleur ++.... again, depending on what the pick is that goes with Meilleur.
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