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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 4, 2014 12:37:29 GMT -4
How many of those games were played while missing Lalonde and Tkachev ? We aren't nearly as tough to beat right now with those two guys out of the lineup. Even with those guys, you still have a small group of forwards and a defense that lacks depth, a goalie that is having a down year. The future has already been mortgaged for the 2013 run...you want to mortgage it further for a lot of maybe's? Don't forget that this team hasn't had a 1st rounder play in the QMJHL since Bussieres and Donnelly last year and the year before, from the 2009 draft. At some point you need to replenish the cupboards and add some prime young talent. Who are the "building blocks" going forward? Murphy? the 2015 1st? hoping Mcinnis or Krys shows up? Other than that you look at average prospects and hoping they magically become steal picks. If you look at the teams that won Memorial Cups(SJ Hal etc) those teams were built on high picks not a wing and a prayer...
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 4, 2014 12:41:13 GMT -4
double
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Post by Arnold Slick on Dec 4, 2014 13:03:41 GMT -4
How many of those games were played while missing Lalonde and Tkachev ? We aren't nearly as tough to beat right now with those two guys out of the lineup. Even with those guys, you still have a small group of forwards and a defense that lacks depth, a goalie that is having a down year. The future has already been mortgaged for the 2013 run...you want to mortgage it further for a lot of maybe's?
Don't forget that this team hasn't had a 1st rounder play in the QMJHL since Bussieres and Donnelly last year and the year before, from the 2009 draft. At some point you need to replenish the cupboards and add some prime young talent. Who are the "building blocks" going forward? Murphy? the 2015 1st? hoping Mcinnis or Krys shows up? Other than that you look at average prospects and hoping they magically become steal picks. If you look at the teams that won Memorial Cups(SJ Hal etc) those teams were built on high picks not a wing and a prayer... Have you not been reading the posts lately? For the most part no one has been advocating selling the farm for a run. In fact I'd say the majority are not in favour of buying big at all. Stay the course seems to be the opinion so I'm not sure why you're ranting and raving about wanting to buy.
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Post by SteveUL on Dec 4, 2014 13:42:50 GMT -4
I'm no medical expert at all and I'm not sure I even quite remember what Lalonde's injury was at this point. Broken ankle, correct? If that hasn't healed properly than perhaps you're looking at re-breaking it? If so you probably won't see him play again until February at the very earliest, if at all. This is all just speculation as I really have no idea what's going on with Lalonde. However, if they know he's done, here's a thought based on what's gone on today...do you take a chance on Cameron Darcy? Doubt they would give him up for cheap within the division, but if they would? I don't ever recall anybody saying it was broken ... and I've always had the impression that it was a high ankle sprain based on them not saying it was broken and the time he was scheduled to be out for ... 4 to 6 weeks initially. I think it is the same thing Karsumms had and it is a wait and see thing. If he is not expected to be back ... then that changes my approach to the trading period. I'm not interested in going for it if he has to be replaced as well. I've always been more or less a stand pat approach on this year ... don't mind a little tinkering to add depth ... but no blockbuster deals. With the loss of Lalonde ... unless you are replacing him with a 40 goal, 100 pt type of player, what is the point. We might as well wait for Lalonde to get healthy.
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Post by SteveUL on Dec 4, 2014 13:57:11 GMT -4
How many of those games were played while missing Lalonde and Tkachev ? We aren't nearly as tough to beat right now with those two guys out of the lineup. Even with those guys, you still have a small group of forwards and a defense that lacks depth, a goalie that is having a down year. The future has already been mortgaged for the 2013 run...you want to mortgage it further for a lot of maybe's? Don't forget that this team hasn't had a 1st rounder play in the QMJHL since Bussieres and Donnelly last year and the year before, from the 2009 draft. At some point you need to replenish the cupboards and add some prime young talent. Who are the "building blocks" going forward? Murphy? the 2015 1st? hoping Mcinnis or Krys shows up? Other than that you look at average prospects and hoping they magically become steal picks. If you look at the teams that won Memorial Cups(SJ Hal etc) those teams were built on high picks not a wing and a prayer... Here is what you keep saying .... "lets not try to win this year ... I am afraid to lose". You seem to think that this is far more important than it really is. This is hockey ... not making a decision whether to have a dangerous surgery or not. If the team tries to go for it ... and fails ... so what ... they pick up the pieces and start again. We have been doing this for almost 20 years here ... we've had success and failures. The failures didn't really mean much more than the successes in the big picture. You make it all out to be about life and death ... get a grip man. We have a very good team ... when we are healthy ... and can beat anybody on any given night. There are other teams that are just as good and better ... but doesn't mean they can't be beat. We can be beat ... so can they ... if we all waited for a guaranteed championship before we rolled the dice then it would be pretty boring. Personally ... I'd rather win a championship by building a good team than by doing what we did in 2009/2010 and went all in and scared everybody else away. I have no attachment to guys like Bourque, Tessier (well he is a Moncton boy, so maybe some) and Deschamps ... no attachment to Danault ... I don't want to win because we spent more than everybody else (i'll enjoy it, but would rather win another way).
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 4, 2014 15:04:18 GMT -4
Even with those guys, you still have a small group of forwards and a defense that lacks depth, a goalie that is having a down year. The future has already been mortgaged for the 2013 run...you want to mortgage it further for a lot of maybe's?
Don't forget that this team hasn't had a 1st rounder play in the QMJHL since Bussieres and Donnelly last year and the year before, from the 2009 draft. At some point you need to replenish the cupboards and add some prime young talent. Who are the "building blocks" going forward? Murphy? the 2015 1st? hoping Mcinnis or Krys shows up? Other than that you look at average prospects and hoping they magically become steal picks. If you look at the teams that won Memorial Cups(SJ Hal etc) those teams were built on high picks not a wing and a prayer... Have you not been reading the posts lately? For the most part no one has been advocating selling the farm for a run. In fact I'd say the majority are not in favour of buying big at all. Stay the course seems to be the opinion so I'm not sure why you're ranting and raving about wanting to buy. If you stay the course you still lose 4 or 5 of your best players for nothing and may not get out of the 1st round. Why not see what you can get for those 4-5 players help yourself down the road. PEI CB and SJ all have a really strong base of 16-17 year olds and draft picks...with what the Cats have right now in terms of young players and picks, it will be tough sledding. Why not add 2-3 top young assets?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 4, 2014 15:17:00 GMT -4
Even with those guys, you still have a small group of forwards and a defense that lacks depth, a goalie that is having a down year. The future has already been mortgaged for the 2013 run...you want to mortgage it further for a lot of maybe's? Don't forget that this team hasn't had a 1st rounder play in the QMJHL since Bussieres and Donnelly last year and the year before, from the 2009 draft. At some point you need to replenish the cupboards and add some prime young talent. Who are the "building blocks" going forward? Murphy? the 2015 1st? hoping Mcinnis or Krys shows up? Other than that you look at average prospects and hoping they magically become steal picks. If you look at the teams that won Memorial Cups(SJ Hal etc) those teams were built on high picks not a wing and a prayer... Here is what you keep saying .... "lets not try to win this year ... I am afraid to lose". You seem to think that this is far more important than it really is. This is hockey ... not making a decision whether to have a dangerous surgery or not. If the team tries to go for it ... and fails ... so what ... they pick up the pieces and start again. We have been doing this for almost 20 years here ... we've had success and failures. The failures didn't really mean much more than the successes in the big picture. You make it all out to be about life and death ... get a grip man. We have a very good team ... when we are healthy ... and can beat anybody on any given night. There are other teams that are just as good and better ... but doesn't mean they can't be beat. We can be beat ... so can they ... if we all waited for a guaranteed championship before we rolled the dice then it would be pretty boring. Personally ... I'd rather win a championship by building a good team than by doing what we did in 2009/2010 and went all in and scared everybody else away. I have no attachment to guys like Bourque, Tessier (well he is a Moncton boy, so maybe some) and Deschamps ... no attachment to Danault ... I don't want to win because we spent more than everybody else (i'll enjoy it, but would rather win another way). That's where I don't agree with you...it's a mid pack team. The record is padded due to playing mostly against the weaker teams in the league, mostly Bathurst CB PEI Halifax. They are .500 against the Quebec teams and have only played the weaker ones except Sherbrooke(a loss) If you have to go to war with a bb gun and the guy against you has a bazooka isn't it smarter to fall back and fight another time? It's not about being "afraid to lose" they have done that the last 3 years, at least if you're going to lose out early, set yourself up for the future. The team has just been spinning it's wheels since the 2010 title and next year will get harder not easier minus Barbashev Tkachev Lalonde and Dubeau. If you want to "build from within" you need draft picks...the Cats have drafted ONCE in round 1 since 2009(Brandon Shea) not exactly the formula to "build from within".
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Post by SteveUL on Dec 4, 2014 15:49:51 GMT -4
Have you not been reading the posts lately? For the most part no one has been advocating selling the farm for a run. In fact I'd say the majority are not in favour of buying big at all. Stay the course seems to be the opinion so I'm not sure why you're ranting and raving about wanting to buy. If you stay the course you still lose 4 or 5 of your best players for nothing and may not get out of the 1st round. Why not see what you can get for those 4-5 players help yourself down the road. PEI CB and SJ all have a really strong base of 16-17 year olds and draft picks...with what the Cats have right now in terms of young players and picks, it will be tough sledding. Why not add 2-3 top young assets? There is nothing we can do about SJ, CB and PEI ... they are built to be very good next year and the year after. It is doubtful that any of them will make a move to get better this year, unless it helps them next year and the year after. We won't be better next year ... we'll take a step back ... but we are good now ... and I expect nobody else in our division will be better than us after Xmas. SJ will trade Auger, and maybe even LeBlanc ... they are going to take a few steps backward. CB would be crazy to waste assets on this year now being in 16th place ... they are more likely to deal away their assets that won't be back. Halifax is making a surge now but they'll be dealing anything that isn't nailed down. PEI is my only worry ... what will they do ? We are better than them now with our two guys out of the lineup. The weak division could allow us to get 2nd seed. You have to learn that as well as being a hockey team ... this is a business ... and from a business standpoint, they need a little playoff success now. It won't come next year when we are sitting in 4th or 5th in our own division ... wins will be tough to come by in a tough division next year. The year after will be just as tough ... so this is the year from a business standpoint to make a run deep into the playoffs. I don't think they are expecting a championship this year ... if it comes great ... just a good long run into the 3rd or maybe 4th round if the cards fall in place. From a business standpoint ... if you toss away playoff revenue on purpose ... you'd better have a plan to get double the revenue next year. You know there is no way that is going to happen ... so it has to be this year. Irving isn't in business to lose money or throw away good money ... but that is what you are asking him to do.
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Post by Arnold Slick on Dec 4, 2014 15:54:49 GMT -4
Have you not been reading the posts lately? For the most part no one has been advocating selling the farm for a run. In fact I'd say the majority are not in favour of buying big at all. Stay the course seems to be the opinion so I'm not sure why you're ranting and raving about wanting to buy. If you stay the course you still lose 4 or 5 of your best players for nothing and may not get out of the 1st round. Why not see what you can get for those 4-5 players help yourself down the road. PEI CB and SJ all have a really strong base of 16-17 year olds and draft picks...with what the Cats have right now in terms of young players and picks, it will be tough sledding. Why not add 2-3 top young assets? OK…I asked this in another thread and didn’t get a response so I’m going to ask again… Please share with us who the Cats can realistically send their high end players to during the trade period. Who are these teams that are going to pony up with a bountiful return of picks and prospects for mainly the Cats’ Euros and 20 year olds? I’m willing to keep an open mind if you can provide realistic suggestions. All you’ve said is SELL, but not once have you provided any possible landing spots for players in this selling option. Here’s your chance and maybe the masses will starting following the obvious path to success!
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 4, 2014 15:57:07 GMT -4
If you stay the course you still lose 4 or 5 of your best players for nothing and may not get out of the 1st round. Why not see what you can get for those 4-5 players help yourself down the road. PEI CB and SJ all have a really strong base of 16-17 year olds and draft picks...with what the Cats have right now in terms of young players and picks, it will be tough sledding. Why not add 2-3 top young assets? OK…I asked this in another thread and didn’t get a response so I’m going to ask again… Please share with us who the Cats can realistically send their high end players to during the trade period. Who are these teams that are going to pony up with a bountiful return of picks and prospects for mainly the Cats’ Euros and 20 year olds? I’m willing to keep an open mind if you can provide realistic suggestions. All you’ve said is SELL, but not once have you provided any possible landing spots for players in this selling option. Here’s your chance and maybe the masses will starting following the obvious path to success! It's a weak seller's market...guys like Barbashev, maybe Tkachev, Lalonde, Dubeau and Sweeney. If the return is not good, then fine, keep them.
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Post by catnut on Dec 4, 2014 15:58:09 GMT -4
Have you not been reading the posts lately? For the most part no one has been advocating selling the farm for a run. In fact I'd say the majority are not in favour of buying big at all. Stay the course seems to be the opinion so I'm not sure why you're ranting and raving about wanting to buy. If you stay the course you still lose 4 or 5 of your best players for nothing and may not get out of the 1st round. Why not see what you can get for those 4-5 players help yourself down the road. PEI CB and SJ all have a really strong base of 16-17 year olds and draft picks...with what the Cats have right now in terms of young players and picks, it will be tough sledding. Why not add 2-3 top young assets? The problem is WHERE do you trade those assets? Our main assets (Euros and OA's) are virtually untradeable. For what the Cats would get from them, they might as well keep them and try to make a couple of playoff rounds. Next year you sell, since the Cats would likely be low to mid-pack. Edit: guess Arnold Slick beat me to it.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 4, 2014 16:02:55 GMT -4
If you stay the course you still lose 4 or 5 of your best players for nothing and may not get out of the 1st round. Why not see what you can get for those 4-5 players help yourself down the road. PEI CB and SJ all have a really strong base of 16-17 year olds and draft picks...with what the Cats have right now in terms of young players and picks, it will be tough sledding. Why not add 2-3 top young assets? The problem is where do you trade those assets? Our main assets (Euros and OA's) are virtually untradeable. For what the Cats would get from them, they might as well keep them and try to make a couple of playoff rounds. Next year you sell, since the Cats would likely be low to mid-pack. Why would they be untradeable? Quebec has only one Euro. BBA only has 2 OA's. There are other openings... Plus a guy like Sweeney fits anywhere and the 19 year old market on defense is weak. Johnson and Johnston if the price is high enough. Next year Dubeau Lalonde Tkachev Barbashev and maybe Sweeney are gone. If Sweeney is back you are still looking at trading an OA. The selling probably won't be better next year.
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Post by catnut on Dec 4, 2014 16:08:16 GMT -4
The problem is where do you trade those assets? Our main assets (Euros and OA's) are virtually untradeable. For what the Cats would get from them, they might as well keep them and try to make a couple of playoff rounds. Next year you sell, since the Cats would likely be low to mid-pack. Why would they be untradeable? Quebec has only one Euro. BBA only has 2 OA's. There are other openings... Plus a guy like Sweeney fits anywhere and the 19 year old market on defense is weak. Pretty sure the Euros come with no-trade agreements. An injured Lalonde and an under-performing Dubeau will not bring much in return. That only leaves Sweeney. Stick with those players instead of giving them away. But.. BBA is in exactly the same situation as the Cats, a small team that is surprisingly at the top of the standings, why would they buy? Besides, they have their 3 OA's. THey had 4 until this morning.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 4, 2014 16:09:44 GMT -4
Why would they be untradeable? Quebec has only one Euro. BBA only has 2 OA's. There are other openings... Plus a guy like Sweeney fits anywhere and the 19 year old market on defense is weak. Pretty sure the Euros come with no-trade agreements. An injured Lalonde and an under-performing Dubeau will not bring much in return. That only leaves Sweeney. Stick with those players instead of giving them away. Pretty sure the No trade isn't an issue if you're sending a guy to a top contender or Memorial Cup host.
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Post by hockeyfanatic on Dec 4, 2014 16:10:53 GMT -4
I agree that Moncton should keep their 1st round pick for next year. I would like to see them pick up a good rugged D-man to shore up the defense, what would it take to pick a player like Austyn Hardie from Halifax ? He has playoff experience and has won a Championship.
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