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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Jan 19, 2015 9:54:46 GMT -4
Crazy Joe you are never gonna win these arguments with Steve or Porky. They live for this stuff they can out last you. But how good Fucale is...... who knows it is a debate we can have forever. We must remember hockey is a team game and takes a team to win. We'll find out soon enough how good Fucale is, or isn't. Unless Fucale gets traded to a real team like L.A. or Chicago, he's part of the crappy Habs organization. The Habs suck, so if Fucale has success there it means Fucale is really good. On the flip side if Fucale struggles you could use a reverse arguement of saying Fucale is still good, just the Habs suck and are dragging him down....which would take this whole arguement on a 180 degree tilt. Not sure how he will end up as an NHL'er, especially in the Habs market. He isn't a blue chip type goalie, he will need some years in the minors for sure as most young goalies do. Having Carey Price to look up to is a good thing, as he tends to play the same quiet game in the crease and can handle the day to day pressure of being a goalie in Montreal.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 19, 2015 10:19:06 GMT -4
Mut be another Leafs fan......... too funny
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 19, 2015 10:29:08 GMT -4
We must remember hockey is a team game and takes a team to win. Exactly ... and putting the success and accolades on the shoulders of one guy is simply wrong ... when so many players ... including utility players and star players ... contributed in many ways to that success. Somebody scored the goals ... somebody killed the penalties ... somebody cleared the rebounds away ... somebody blocked shots ... somebody even played a 4th line role to give the busier guys a break to keep them strong for the full game. Everybody contributed. When you say that Fucale won a Prez Cup and a Memorial Cup you are simply wrong. He was part of a very good team that won those championships. It will be interesting to watch him this time around. He is on a strong team, but it isn't necessarily the strongest team in the Q (I'll give them time to gel), so he will have to play a bigger role on this team if they are to reach their goals. When you get 2 fairly equally matched teams going head to head, goaltending is often the difference in winning or losing the series.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Jan 19, 2015 10:47:39 GMT -4
We must remember hockey is a team game and takes a team to win. Exactly ... and putting the success and accolades on the shoulders of one guy is simply wrong ... when so many players ... including utility players and star players ... contributed in many ways to that success. Somebody scored the goals ... somebody killed the penalties ... somebody cleared the rebounds away ... somebody blocked shots ... somebody even played a 4th line role to give the busier guys a break to keep them strong for the full game. Everybody contributed. When you say that Fucale won a Prez Cup and a Memorial Cup you are simply wrong. He was part of a very good team that won those championships. It will be interesting to watch him this time around. He is on a strong team, but it isn't necessarily the strongest team in the Q (I'll give them time to gel), so he will have to play a bigger role on this team if they are to reach their goals. When you get 2 fairly equally matched teams going head to head, goaltending is often the difference in winning or losing the series. WTF are you talking about? So Crawford never won a Stanley Cup? Riopel never won a Q championship? Are we really breaking this down to where we can't say what "X" player has won because it was a team game? Tom Brady has not won a Superbowl etc? Are you really getting that specific now, where you will be saying "X player was a member of a team that won the cup" from now on?
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 19, 2015 11:10:57 GMT -4
Exactly ... and putting the success and accolades on the shoulders of one guy is simply wrong ... when so many players ... including utility players and star players ... contributed in many ways to that success. Somebody scored the goals ... somebody killed the penalties ... somebody cleared the rebounds away ... somebody blocked shots ... somebody even played a 4th line role to give the busier guys a break to keep them strong for the full game. Everybody contributed. When you say that Fucale won a Prez Cup and a Memorial Cup you are simply wrong. He was part of a very good team that won those championships. It will be interesting to watch him this time around. He is on a strong team, but it isn't necessarily the strongest team in the Q (I'll give them time to gel), so he will have to play a bigger role on this team if they are to reach their goals. When you get 2 fairly equally matched teams going head to head, goaltending is often the difference in winning or losing the series. WTF are you talking about? So Crawford never won a Stanley Cup? Riopel never won a Q championship? Are we really breaking this down to where we can't say what "X" player has won because it was a team game? Tom Brady has not won a Superbowl etc? Are you really getting that specific now, where you will be saying "X player was a member of a team that won the cup" from now on? Sure you can say that ... but when you hold that up as his individual accomplishment you are stretching. I can't even remember who your backup was back in your championship year. But according to you, part of his individual accolades are Prez Cup and Memorial Cup champion. That makes him better than most goalies in the Q according to you ... the evidence is right there. That has been my argument all along. You can't hold those team awards up as individual accomplishments ... they aren't won by individual effort. Just like awarding a goaltender the award for best Goalie ... because his GAA is best. WTF ? GAA is a team stat.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Jan 19, 2015 11:14:42 GMT -4
WTF are you talking about? So Crawford never won a Stanley Cup? Riopel never won a Q championship? Are we really breaking this down to where we can't say what "X" player has won because it was a team game? Tom Brady has not won a Superbowl etc? Are you really getting that specific now, where you will be saying "X player was a member of a team that won the cup" from now on? Sure you can say that ... but when you hold that up as his individual accomplishment you are stretching. I can't even remember who your backup was back in your championship year. But according to you, part of his individual accolades are Prez Cup and Memorial Cup champion. That makes him better than most goalies in the Q according to you ... the evidence is right there. That has been my argument all along. You can't hold those team awards up as individual accomplishments ... they aren't won by individual effort. Just like awarding a goaltender the award for best Goalie ... because his GAA is best. WTF ? GAA is a team stat. What is an individual accomplishment for a goalie then, that doesn't have anything to do with the team in front of him and how they play defensively or offensively?
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Jan 19, 2015 11:31:03 GMT -4
I'm tired of this debate, and have tried to end it a few times (but usually Porky shows up after a Fucale compliment to complain about him again).
Can we just agree that Fucale falls somewhere between the range of "the biggest reason for the teams success" and "a passenger on great teams"? Nobody here has said he carried us to all these years of success, but at the opposite end, we are getting comments like "a monkey could have played goal" and being asked for any proof where Fucale was a key to success - which is being given, but always ignored, so that you can ask the question again in a later thread.
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 19, 2015 12:15:41 GMT -4
Sure you can say that ... but when you hold that up as his individual accomplishment you are stretching. I can't even remember who your backup was back in your championship year. But according to you, part of his individual accolades are Prez Cup and Memorial Cup champion. That makes him better than most goalies in the Q according to you ... the evidence is right there. That has been my argument all along. You can't hold those team awards up as individual accomplishments ... they aren't won by individual effort. Just like awarding a goaltender the award for best Goalie ... because his GAA is best. WTF ? GAA is a team stat. What is an individual accomplishment for a goalie then, that doesn't have anything to do with the team in front of him and how they play defensively or offensively? There isn't any stat that you can conclusively say is all about the goaltender. Sv% is the closest we have ... but a strong defensive team will minimize shots from scoring areas.
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 19, 2015 12:19:09 GMT -4
I'm tired of this debate, and have tried to end it a few times (but usually Porky shows up after a Fucale compliment to complain about him again). Can we just agree that Fucale falls somewhere between the range of "the biggest reason for the teams success" and "a passenger on great teams"? Nobody here has said he carried us to all these years of success, but at the opposite end, we are getting comments like "a monkey could have played goal" and being asked for any proof where Fucale was a key to success - which is being given, but always ignored, so that you can ask the question again in a later thread. Somewhere between mediocre and great ... and not at either extreme.
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Post by mooseinfo on Jan 19, 2015 14:43:07 GMT -4
I'm tired of this debate, and have tried to end it a few times (but usually Porky shows up after a Fucale compliment to complain about him again). Can we just agree that Fucale falls somewhere between the range of "the biggest reason for the teams success" and "a passenger on great teams"? Nobody here has said he carried us to all these years of success, but at the opposite end, we are getting comments like "a monkey could have played goal" and being asked for any proof where Fucale was a key to success - which is being given, but always ignored, so that you can ask the question again in a later thread. Somewhere between mediocre and great ... and not at either extreme. I think the large majority of the hype comes from you and your buddy porkchop.
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 19, 2015 15:25:54 GMT -4
Somewhere between mediocre and great ... and not at either extreme. I think the large majority of the hype comes from you and your buddy porkchop. Yeah ... it is us that have him up on a pedestal.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Jan 19, 2015 16:08:36 GMT -4
I think the large majority of the hype comes from you and your buddy porkchop. Yeah ... it is us that have him up on a pedestal. In this thread most recently, nobody said a thing about Fucale's shutout a few nights ago - you brought it up. Then sc74 posted a pic of him in a Rempart uniform which was compared to the Canada one - and Porky took a shot at Fucale. Then you brought up his game against Moncton. None of this was brought on by Moose fans. It's just relentless. There is no doubt that if someone wrote "Congrats to Fucale for setting the all time win record in the Q!" that it would be met by you or Porkchop taking a shot at how great all his teams were. It is a given. If he wins another Memorial Cup - more of the same. Everyone else in hockey history seems to play a key role in a teams success, except him.
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Post by mooseinfo on Jan 19, 2015 17:39:36 GMT -4
Yeah ... it is us that have him up on a pedestal. In this thread most recently, nobody said a thing about Fucale's shutout a few nights ago - you brought it up. Then sc74 posted a pic of him in a Rempart uniform which was compared to the Canada one - and Porky took a shot at Fucale. Then you brought up his game against Moncton. None of this was brought on by Moose fans. It's just relentless. There is no doubt that if someone wrote "Congrats to Fucale for setting the all time win record in the Q!" that it would be met by you or Porkchop taking a shot at how great all his teams were. It is a given. If he wins another Memorial Cup - more of the same. Everyone else in hockey history seems to play a key role in a teams success, except him. They are so obsessed with this teenage boy they dont even know what the definition of hype is.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jan 19, 2015 19:00:13 GMT -4
In this thread most recently, nobody said a thing about Fucale's shutout a few nights ago - you brought it up. Then sc74 posted a pic of him in a Rempart uniform which was compared to the Canada one - and Porky took a shot at Fucale. Then you brought up his game against Moncton. None of this was brought on by Moose fans. It's just relentless. There is no doubt that if someone wrote "Congrats to Fucale for setting the all time win record in the Q!" that it would be met by you or Porkchop taking a shot at how great all his teams were. It is a given. If he wins another Memorial Cup - more of the same. Everyone else in hockey history seems to play a key role in a teams success, except him. They are so obsessed with this teenage boy they dont even know what the definition of hype is. They're looking for the lifetime of saying 'I was right' on a message board that some were denied after ripping talents like Fleury. There was always a dig or comment from people any time he didn't post a shutout about how he was never going to last as a top goaltending prospect. I do somewhat agree on their stance with Fucale but personally I think it's more like if he plays in another organization he's a 5th-6th rounder developing a little later almost like we seen recently in Bibeau. The constant posts about a player from people who don't even seem to follow the league is pretty humorous as well. I don't get to near as many games as I used too due to work and other commitments, but Porkchop almost goes out of his way to bash the league and why he won't support it then sits here ripping stars on other teams. There's a hilarious irony in the fact that your home town team draws 3 figures some nights and you're here telling us why a Canadiens prospect playing in Halifax and Quebec is not as good as everyone thinks. And there's no comments like 'too many rebounds' or 'constantly out of position' like we seen with Fleury when people watched him, all we hear about Fucale is who has played in front of him and why that apparently makes him no good.
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Post by SteveUL on Jan 19, 2015 19:57:34 GMT -4
In this thread most recently, nobody said a thing about Fucale's shutout a few nights ago - you brought it up. Then sc74 posted a pic of him in a Rempart uniform which was compared to the Canada one - and Porky took a shot at Fucale. Then you brought up his game against Moncton. None of this was brought on by Moose fans. It's just relentless. There is no doubt that if someone wrote "Congrats to Fucale for setting the all time win record in the Q!" that it would be met by you or Porkchop taking a shot at how great all his teams were. It is a given. If he wins another Memorial Cup - more of the same. Everyone else in hockey history seems to play a key role in a teams success, except him. They are so obsessed with this teenage boy they dont even know what the definition of hype is. I don't think you do ... we are doing the opposite of "hype". 1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion 2. Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material: "It is pure hype, a gigantic PR job" (Saturday Review). When I use the word "hype" in this discussion, it is #2 that I am referring to.
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