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Post by SteveUL on Jan 19, 2015 20:10:49 GMT -4
Yeah ... it is us that have him up on a pedestal. In this thread most recently, nobody said a thing about Fucale's shutout a few nights ago - you brought it up. Then sc74 posted a pic of him in a Rempart uniform which was compared to the Canada one - and Porky took a shot at Fucale. Then you brought up his game against Moncton. None of this was brought on by Moose fans. It's just relentless. There is no doubt that if someone wrote "Congrats to Fucale for setting the all time win record in the Q!" that it would be met by you or Porkchop taking a shot at how great all his teams were. It is a given. If he wins another Memorial Cup - more of the same. Everyone else in hockey history seems to play a key role in a teams success, except him. The discussion has been going on for weeks. Why do you think it ended ? My comment on that shutout was just to show what I have been saying. He played behind a strong team and was barely needed ... wasn't a factor in the win. If he wins a Memorial Cup with Quebec ... I think he'll have to play a big part in the win because they aren't as strong as you would think a host team would be ... but good enough to have no trouble beating Bathurst. The all time win record is another of those stats that are luck of the draw. Auger and Bibeau played on shitty rebuilding teams and so they don't get the same opportunities as Fucale. Those type of awards are meaningless to me. A win is a team accomplishment ... so is a loss ... and all it means for Fucale is that he has been lucky to have been on some strong teams. He came along at a point when his team was breaking out and did not have to sit through a rebuild. He had the luck of playing with two of the greatest players in recent Q history ... and the luck of playing for a Coach and GM that put together a great program. If anybody should get the record for most Wins ... it is Cam Russell and Ducharme ... not the goaltender. Why is there no award for most wins by a Dman or forward ? Why does the goaltender get credit for the win ... what happened to the other 19 guys and the Coach/GM ? Its a farce.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Jan 19, 2015 20:40:10 GMT -4
In this thread most recently, nobody said a thing about Fucale's shutout a few nights ago - you brought it up. Then sc74 posted a pic of him in a Rempart uniform which was compared to the Canada one - and Porky took a shot at Fucale. Then you brought up his game against Moncton. None of this was brought on by Moose fans. It's just relentless. There is no doubt that if someone wrote "Congrats to Fucale for setting the all time win record in the Q!" that it would be met by you or Porkchop taking a shot at how great all his teams were. It is a given. If he wins another Memorial Cup - more of the same. Everyone else in hockey history seems to play a key role in a teams success, except him. The discussion has been going on for weeks. Why do you think it ended ? My comment on that shutout was just to show what I have been saying. He played behind a strong team and was barely needed ... wasn't a factor in the win. If he wins a Memorial Cup with Quebec ... I think he'll have to play a big part in the win because they aren't as strong as you would think a host team would be ... but good enough to have no trouble beating Bathurst. The all time win record is another of those stats that are luck of the draw. Auger and Bibeau played on shitty rebuilding teams and so they don't get the same opportunities as Fucale. Those type of awards are meaningless to me. A win is a team accomplishment ... so is a loss ... and all it means for Fucale is that he has been lucky to have been on some strong teams. He came along at a point when his team was breaking out and did not have to sit through a rebuild. He had the luck of playing with two of the greatest players in recent Q history ... and the luck of playing for a Coach and GM that put together a great program. If anybody should get the record for most Wins ... it is Cam Russell and Ducharme ... not the goaltender. Why is there no award for most wins by a Dman or forward ? Why does the goaltender get credit for the win ... what happened to the other 19 guys and the Coach/GM ? Its a farce. You keep saying all these things Fucale has done are not good indicators of his impact/skill/abilities... but you continously fail to list the accomplishments you are basing your criteria on that are not impacted by the team in front of them. Consistency, wins, leadership, durability, ability are all indicators of the ability of a goaltender. Yes wins are often reflective of the team - but at the same time, as the starting goaltender, you need to play well and consistently and a lot over the years to win as much as he has. The fact Fucale has been able to play as much as he has, with the success he has, is an accomplishment regardless of being on good teams. REGARDLESS - the point is, he has done a lot for this team and CANADA, so pointing out the good teams he was a part of over and over isn't necessary at this point. Everyone knows where you stand on it. I'm going to try and be finished with this. I/we will occasionally make a complimentary post about Fucale, and if you/Porky feel the need to degrade him again on this board, so be it.
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Post by mooseinfo on Jan 19, 2015 21:42:48 GMT -4
They are so obsessed with this teenage boy they dont even know what the definition of hype is. I don't think you do ... we are doing the opposite of "hype". 1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion 2. Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material: "It is pure hype, a gigantic PR job" (Saturday Review). When I use the word "hype" in this discussion, it is #2 that I am referring to. Just wanted you to post it to show how foolish YOUR SELECTED definition is so you could not change it. I have seen no such claims.
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Post by defresh101 on Jan 19, 2015 22:13:22 GMT -4
LOL Porky can really stir things up. He does not even watch his home team play. I am sure he has only seen Fucale play a dozen times in the last 3 years. Who gives a shit how good Fucale is has/ will make more money than all of us dip shits combined. You piss him off he may just buy Bathurst......I don't mean the Team I mean the TOWN.
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Post by moosefan902 on Jan 22, 2015 8:14:13 GMT -4
Ya know I used to like this page but it's just bickering and arguing nowadays...
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Post by elementz on Jan 22, 2015 9:22:25 GMT -4
I don't think you do ... we are doing the opposite of "hype". 1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion 2. Exaggerated or extravagant claims made especially in advertising or promotional material: "It is pure hype, a gigantic PR job" (Saturday Review). When I use the word "hype" in this discussion, it is #2 that I am referring to. Just wanted you to post it to show how foolish YOUR SELECTED definition is so you could not change it. I have seen no such claims. You need to remove your Moose blinders.
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Post by Dr Phil on Jan 22, 2015 10:06:08 GMT -4
Ya know I used to like this page but it's just bickering and arguing nowadays... Nothing new. It's been all bickering and arguing for going on fourteen years now.
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Post by moosefan902 on Jan 22, 2015 10:24:24 GMT -4
I used to find it really educational. I learned a lot about the players and the team as a whole from this page...Now it seems it's just arguing with people because of their personal opinions. Some debating is great but geez it's like a pissing match when I read the boards. Hope it gets back to analytics some day...
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Post by novicefan on Jan 22, 2015 11:28:33 GMT -4
I used to find it really educational. I learned a lot about the players and the team as a whole from this page...Now it seems it's just arguing with people because of their personal opinions. Some debating is great but geez it's like a pissing match when I read the boards. Hope it gets back to analytics some day... Couldn't agree more.
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Post by guru on Feb 11, 2015 14:36:29 GMT -4
I don't know how the Quebec based media keeps getting this info and leaking it immediately. There's clearly a problem in Quebec. The quebec media (not all but some) don't operate in conjunction with the teams the way the Herald and Mooseheads organization do, as an example. So someone like Palov might know who's getting traded long before it's announced, but doesn't print it to keep the partnership amicable. In Quebec though, these reporters are after scoops, and they really don't care if they piss the teams off or not. Their job is to get the information out before anyone else. They shouldn't have to work in conjunction with teams. That is not supposed to be how it works!
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Feb 11, 2015 14:45:48 GMT -4
The quebec media (not all but some) don't operate in conjunction with the teams the way the Herald and Mooseheads organization do, as an example. So someone like Palov might know who's getting traded long before it's announced, but doesn't print it to keep the partnership amicable. In Quebec though, these reporters are after scoops, and they really don't care if they piss the teams off or not. Their job is to get the information out before anyone else. They shouldn't have to work in conjunction with teams. That is not supposed to be how it works! Bottom line though is that you may have 5 reporters standing around/phoning asking for interviews/questions - and 1-2 of them may have written scathing shit disturbing articles in the past, and get virtually ignored. The guys who don't have a vendetta or aren't trying to stir it up usually, will typically get the best access and the best quotes time after time. It's Palov's job to get those stories and improve readership to the paper. MOST fans like those stories. There is a much smaller number who are craving to know what personal issues a player may have had on the weekend. It's probably not worth it to ruin your team access so you can break a story about an 18 year old being sent home intoxicated in a cab from the dome on Saturday night.
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Post by guru on Feb 11, 2015 15:24:28 GMT -4
Come on CrazyJoe, the Vuic thing, while still in the news, is in the past. Murph is talking about reporting on trades. I bet these same people will continue reporting the trades 1st, no reason the Herald can't be one of them. Or we just need more journalists around here that are starving that can break trades.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Feb 11, 2015 15:42:48 GMT -4
Come on CrazyJoe, the Vuic thing, while still in the news, is in the past. Murph is talking about reporting on trades. I bet these same people will continue reporting the trades 1st, no reason the Herald can't be one of them. Or we just need more journalists around here that are starving that can break trades. To be honest I didn't really read the conversation you were commenting on - I was just more commenting on your plea for reporters to stop being nice to teams/GMs. While trade leaking isn't "dirt", it's another form of losing the trust of the team you need to write your stories.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Feb 11, 2015 16:09:39 GMT -4
Come on CrazyJoe, the Vuic thing, while still in the news, is in the past. Murph is talking about reporting on trades. I bet these same people will continue reporting the trades 1st, no reason the Herald can't be one of them. Or we just need more journalists around here that are starving that can break trades. To be honest I didn't really read the conversation you were commenting on - I was just more commenting on your plea for reporters to stop being nice to teams/GMs. While trade leaking isn't "dirt", it's another form of losing the trust of the team you need to write your stories. So newspapers and reporters are not in the business to break news and are only there to report on stories the teams want people to see and read? If the Herald's directive was to not report news and to be a fluff newspaper, I guess I could accept that. But to my knowledge, that's the last thing it's trying to pass itself off as. If Palov coming out 48 hours earlier then everyone else and saying 'Fucale to Quebec is a done deal' he's just doing his job. If that costs his access to the team, that's something as a reporter he should be looking to expose as a flaw in the team and organization trying to muzzle the local media. You're essentially encouraging the job of a reporter to be an extension of the team, so shouldnt he be paid by the team and work for them rather then an independent news source?
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Feb 11, 2015 16:35:20 GMT -4
To be honest I didn't really read the conversation you were commenting on - I was just more commenting on your plea for reporters to stop being nice to teams/GMs. While trade leaking isn't "dirt", it's another form of losing the trust of the team you need to write your stories. So newspapers and reporters are not in the business to break news and are only there to report on stories the teams want people to see and read? If the Herald's directive was to not report news and to be a fluff newspaper, I guess I could accept that. But to my knowledge, that's the last thing it's trying to pass itself off as. If Palov coming out 48 hours earlier then everyone else and saying 'Fucale to Quebec is a done deal' he's just doing his job. If that costs his access to the team, that's something as a reporter he should be looking to expose as a flaw in the team and organization trying to muzzle the local media. You're essentially encouraging the job of a reporter to be an extension of the team, so shouldnt he be paid by the team and work for them rather then an independent news source? I am not encouraging it - I am saying it exists and that is the reason for it. Some reporters can dig up dirt and ask their tough questions if they want, but others will be more neutral for the reasons I mentioned. Who knows what direction Palov in particular has given re: his team coverage. Maybe the Herald just asked him to comment on the games, interview the players, and write the occasional piece on the league/trades etc. He doesn't write many articles breaking news about personal issues of players on other teams either. Maybe it's not what they expect of him. Again, in a perfect world, reporters write all the good/bad details they have about a team, and that team keep feeding him good interviews and information regardless. But realistically, if I whisper a deal to you that is almost done expecting you to comment only that some deals are in the works, maybe drop a hint etc... and you go and write out the trade exactly - I probably stop giving you info (or I should anyway). If I leak a trade or write an article about how some player is a bad apple in the room - why, as GM, would I be happy to see you show up asking to interview some players or get some trade info etc? Look at Bob McKenzie and Steve Simmons. There is room for both apparently. MacKenzie knows tons of dirt, but that is not his thing to really report on, and he continues to have great relationships with hockey people and provide lots of good info. Simmons has burned a lot of bridges writing the stuff he does. Same reason I don't see why Guru needs to vent about Palov - he is basically covering the team with a Bob MacKenzie style approach vs. Simmons.
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