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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Apr 17, 2015 11:43:00 GMT -4
LOL you have lost touch with reality. If Meier hit him "full force crunch" they'd still be smoothing Maletesta's facial indents out of the glass. I noticed last game a handful of plays very similar, where guys got crunched up along the boards, often being forced face first in, including Mooseheads who just got back up and kept going. Those kind of collisions happen all the time along the boards, one guy tries to move along the boards and the guy takes him into the boards, often from behind as the guy is usually facing the glass. It was a 2 minute penalty as it usually is, but it wasn't malicious or with any dangerous speed. Johnson followed Ehlers up the ice, and right as he gets to him in the corner, he shoves him. That is ALWAYS a very dangerous play and often results in suspensions. I GUARANTEE you that if that was Garland or Barb or anyone, they would have lied there for a couple minutes after that. There is a thread on hockeyfuture that was pretty unanimous that it was a brutal play by Johnson. That play can result in dislocated shoulders and broken legs. I think you and HoldMyDeke are the only homers arguing it was nothing but a harmless play with embellishment by Ehlers. Ask any fan or coach what play they would rather their star player be a victim of, and I bet none of them choose the "being shoved from behind as you skate towards the boards". Yet you argue Meier's play was worse. Just ridiculous. Your officiating whining this series is unwarranted as the games have been mostly clean/even in that regard with good and soft calls on both teams. When you get called on your BS (like all the times the reffing killed Moncton's momentum with 2-3 calls on them) you just alter your argument or ignore the reply altogether. Your discussion ability has really deteriorated ... you have become way more of a homer than you were before .. you use to be fairly objective. Only video will show I guess. I don't have the other videos so maybe somebody else can find them. I challenge somebody to prove me wrong. Steve watch the Johnson hit again. He lunges at him pretty aggressively once they get close to the corner. You could argue if Ehlers wasn't turning slightly, that the shove drives him into the boards even worse. Because he turned, he caught the brunt of it one one side, causing Johnson to follow through versus getting all of him. Thanks for the analysis on my discussion ability. I got into a bad habit of using actual facts, and words you typed, when discussing things. I should realize that when you argue something is blue, that you probably meant red after all - if it turns out it wasn't blue.
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Post by catnut on Apr 17, 2015 11:50:10 GMT -4
Your discussion ability has really deteriorated ... you have become way more of a homer than you were before .. you use to be fairly objective. Only video will show I guess. I don't have the other videos so maybe somebody else can find them. I challenge somebody to prove me wrong. Steve watch the Johnson hit again. He lunges at him pretty aggressively once they get close to the corner. You could argue if Ehlers wasn't turning slightly, that the shove drives him into the boards even worse. Because he turned, he caught the brunt of it one one side, causing Johnson to follow through versus getting all of him. Thanks for the analysis on my discussion ability. I got into a bad habit of using actual facts, and words you typed, when discussing things. I should realize that when you argue something is blue, that you probably meant red after all - if it turns out it wasn't blue. I see the opposite. To me, it's the fact that Ehlers brakes and turns that causes him to lose balance when Johnson pushes him, making it look worse. Without that, he probably just hits the boards sideways. The other two hits discussed by Steve were square in the numbers and harder - both looked bad, not "one you see 5-10 times a game". I expected more on both occasions.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Apr 17, 2015 12:00:47 GMT -4
Steve watch the Johnson hit again. He lunges at him pretty aggressively once they get close to the corner. You could argue if Ehlers wasn't turning slightly, that the shove drives him into the boards even worse. Because he turned, he caught the brunt of it one one side, causing Johnson to follow through versus getting all of him. Thanks for the analysis on my discussion ability. I got into a bad habit of using actual facts, and words you typed, when discussing things. I should realize that when you argue something is blue, that you probably meant red after all - if it turns out it wasn't blue. I see the opposite. To me, it's the fact that Ehlers brakes and turns that causes him to lose balance when Johnson pushes him, making it look worse. Without that, he probably just hits the boards sideways. The other two hits discussed by Steve were square in the numbers and harder - both looked bad, not "one you see 5-10 times a game". I expected more on both occasions. We will never know what would have happened if he shoved him square in the numbers... but you look at the replay and he was clearly lunging at him with a good shove after following him all the way into the corner. I didnt see the Hunter hit... the Meier one was a penalty, one of those hits where you go to take the guy out by the boards but end up hitting him from behind because maybe you anticipated he was going one way or would be side on. You don't see that exact hit, but you see tons of guys along the boards get sandwiched into the glass from behind. Meier's hit is probably BARELY a 4 minute minor at worst, but usually its a classic 2 minute penalty. Johnson's decision to shove Ehlers on that play will often result how it did - crashing headfirst into the boards with serious chance for injury. IMO there is no way Meier's hit was as dangerous. At any level of hockey, the shove into the boards from behind ten feet out is worse.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 17, 2015 12:22:57 GMT -4
Your discussion ability has really deteriorated ... you have become way more of a homer than you were before .. you use to be fairly objective. Only video will show I guess. I don't have the other videos so maybe somebody else can find them. I challenge somebody to prove me wrong. Steve watch the Johnson hit again. He lunges at him pretty aggressively once they get close to the corner. You could argue if Ehlers wasn't turning slightly, that the shove drives him into the boards even worse. Because he turned, he caught the brunt of it one one side, causing Johnson to follow through versus getting all of him. Thanks for the analysis on my discussion ability. I got into a bad habit of using actual facts, and words you typed, when discussing things. I should realize that when you argue something is blue, that you probably meant red after all - if it turns out it wasn't blue. What makes your "facts" better than my "facts" ? See what I mean ... suddenly your opinion is fact ... you've really lost it. What makes the Ehlers incident worse than the hit on Hunter ?
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Post by catnut on Apr 17, 2015 12:23:02 GMT -4
I see the opposite. To me, it's the fact that Ehlers brakes and turns that causes him to lose balance when Johnson pushes him, making it look worse. Without that, he probably just hits the boards sideways. The other two hits discussed by Steve were square in the numbers and harder - both looked bad, not "one you see 5-10 times a game". I expected more on both occasions. We will never know what would have happened if he shoved him square in the numbers... but you look at the replay and he was clearly lunging at him with a good shove after following him all the way into the corner. I didnt see the Hunter hit... the Meier one was a penalty, one of those hits where you go to take the guy out by the boards but end up hitting him from behind because maybe you anticipated he was going one way or would be side on. You don't see that exact hit, but you see tons of guys along the boards get sandwiched into the glass from behind. Meier's hit is probably BARELY a 4 minute minor at worst, but usually its a classic 2 minute penalty. Johnson's decision to shove Ehlers on that play will often result how it did - crashing headfirst into the boards with serious chance for injury. IMO there is no way Meier's hit was as dangerous. At any level of hockey, the shove into the boards from behind ten feet out is worse. I just re-watched the video several times. Johnson is never lined up with the numbers and he reacts with the push when Ehlers brakes to turn. One thing I found strange is, on contact (lower back), Ehlers' head goes back, but then he falls down head first.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 17, 2015 12:35:13 GMT -4
I see the opposite. To me, it's the fact that Ehlers brakes and turns that causes him to lose balance when Johnson pushes him, making it look worse. Without that, he probably just hits the boards sideways. The other two hits discussed by Steve were square in the numbers and harder - both looked bad, not "one you see 5-10 times a game". I expected more on both occasions. We will never know what would have happened if he shoved him square in the numbers... but you look at the replay and he was clearly lunging at him with a good shove after following him all the way into the corner. I didnt see the Hunter hit... the Meier one was a penalty, one of those hits where you go to take the guy out by the boards but end up hitting him from behind because maybe you anticipated he was going one way or would be side on. You don't see that exact hit, but you see tons of guys along the boards get sandwiched into the glass from behind. Meier's hit is probably BARELY a 4 minute minor at worst, but usually its a classic 2 minute penalty. Johnson's decision to shove Ehlers on that play will often result how it did - crashing headfirst into the boards with serious chance for injury. IMO there is no way Meier's hit was as dangerous. At any level of hockey, the shove into the boards from behind ten feet out is worse. You have seen no replay of the Meier hit if you think that. The hit on Hunter was the worst of the 3 ... and you haven't seen it either ... yet you speak with "facts". Johnson was looking to make contact with Ehlers because he had the puck ... you make it sound like he hunted him down and assaulted him. Ehlers turned to go back against the grain just as Johnson is trying to make contact ... and it went bad from there. It wasn't a dirty hit by a guy that does it all the time ... just a bad situation resulting from Ehlers turning back because his route was blocked by the Dman ... but still deserving of the penalty call. The Malatesta and Hunter hits were also a case of the guy getting hit trying to change direction to avoid the hit or escape with the puck ... all 3 were the same in that regard. Again ... I don't have a problem with the 4:00 on Johnson ... the Refs made their call at that moment and Ehlers is laying on the ice being attended to ... it was definitely a penalty. But the Q knew that Ehlers was not hurt so the suspension had nothing to do with an injury.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Apr 17, 2015 13:05:49 GMT -4
We will never know what would have happened if he shoved him square in the numbers... but you look at the replay and he was clearly lunging at him with a good shove after following him all the way into the corner. I didnt see the Hunter hit... the Meier one was a penalty, one of those hits where you go to take the guy out by the boards but end up hitting him from behind because maybe you anticipated he was going one way or would be side on. You don't see that exact hit, but you see tons of guys along the boards get sandwiched into the glass from behind. Meier's hit is probably BARELY a 4 minute minor at worst, but usually its a classic 2 minute penalty. Johnson's decision to shove Ehlers on that play will often result how it did - crashing headfirst into the boards with serious chance for injury. IMO there is no way Meier's hit was as dangerous. At any level of hockey, the shove into the boards from behind ten feet out is worse. You have seen no replay of the Meier hit if you think that. The hit on Hunter was the worst of the 3 ... and you haven't seen it either ... yet you speak with "facts". Johnson was looking to make contact with Ehlers because he had the puck ... you make it sound like he hunted him down and assaulted him. Ehlers turned to go back against the grain just as Johnson is trying to make contact ... and it went bad from there. It wasn't a dirty hit by a guy that does it all the time ... just a bad situation resulting from Ehlers turning back because his route was blocked by the Dman ... but still deserving of the penalty call. The Malatesta and Hunter hits were also a case of the guy getting hit trying to change direction to avoid the hit or escape with the puck ... all 3 were the same in that regard. Again ... I don't have a problem with the 4:00 on Johnson ... the Refs made their call at that moment and Ehlers is laying on the ice being attended to ... it was definitely a penalty. But the Q knew that Ehlers was not hurt so the suspension had nothing to do with an injury. The suspension was likely based on the decision to shove a player in that position to the boards. Is there a precedent or rule that says no suspension can be handed out if a player doesn't remain hurt? I was never referring to the Johnson hit in this discussion. I don't remember seeing it, so I haven't made a comment about it. I saw the Meier hit as much as you. What would a 2 or 4 minute checking from behind penalty be if it wasn't for that type of play? All I can say is that if Bent followed Garland to the boards and shoved him like that, you would be preaching how dangerous it was and that you agree with the Q's decision. And if Barbeshev hit Moynihan like Maletesta got hit and I said it was as bad as what Bent did, you guys would be laughing. I can tell you with all honesty that I would never equate the two hits and would always agree the Johnson (or Bent) play is a much more dangerous play. Call me a homer if it makes you feel like it supports your argument, but I am being very objective.
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Post by statsman18 on Apr 17, 2015 13:35:36 GMT -4
How about we drop the Moncton, Halifax Bull shit! (Sorry mods if that's offside but needed to be said) let's try and get back on track and talk about the out look of next years team.
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Post by Jacques Strap on Apr 17, 2015 13:45:37 GMT -4
How about we drop the Moncton, Halifax Bull shit! (Sorry mods if that's offside but needed to be said) let's try and get back on track and talk about the out look of next years team. Well to get things back on track. What do u think about the Mooseheads keeping Brassard as a 20, trade Resop and draft a young goalie. Then with the prospects of getting Ehlers back and also have Meier back. D. Moynihan being back. Fortier a year older and our young D a year older, actually maybe having a pretty good team next Season.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Apr 17, 2015 13:46:44 GMT -4
Just watched the replay on archives. The puck is chipped down into the corner, Maletesta races in with Meier right behind. Maletesta sees him following and angles his body to the right as he slides to stop and brace for the hit. Meier comes in with him to take him into the boards, more positioned on the side of Maletesta (right shoulder) who was braced for it. As they collide into the glass, Maletesta's body turns/crunches into the glass to absorb the momentum of the hit. But Meier initially makes contact/follows him more to the side to squash him with the hit. The ref immediately calls a penalty and the play is dead as Maletesta stands up. Meier seems confused why, and Maletesta is 100% fine and not even mad. Typical power forward finishing his check, but in this case because he ended up twisting towards the glass and hitting the glass face on, it was called for a minor penalty which is fine.
But when Meier headed in with him, he angled himself along the side of Maletesta (easy, as Maletesta turned sideways to brace for it). The weight of their bodies on the hit turned Maletesta more face on as they collided with the boards, as Meier's weight is on his right shoulder - but Meier certainly didn't line him up in his numbers when he was initially making contact. I don't think I have ever seen a suspension on a play like that. The initial contact was more to the side and there was nothing malicious about the way he hit him.
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Post by SteveUL on Apr 17, 2015 16:35:32 GMT -4
Just watched the replay on archives. The puck is chipped down into the corner, Maletesta races in with Meier right behind. Maletesta sees him following and angles his body to the right as he slides to stop and brace for the hit. Meier comes in with him to take him into the boards, more positioned on the side of Maletesta (right shoulder) who was braced for it. As they collide into the glass, Maletesta's body turns/crunches into the glass to absorb the momentum of the hit. But Meier initially makes contact/follows him more to the side to squash him with the hit. The ref immediately calls a penalty and the play is dead as Maletesta stands up. Meier seems confused why, and Maletesta is 100% fine and not even mad. Typical power forward finishing his check, but in this case because he ended up twisting towards the glass and hitting the glass face on, it was called for a minor penalty which is fine. But when Meier headed in with him, he angled himself along the side of Maletesta (easy, as Maletesta turned sideways to brace for it). The weight of their bodies on the hit turned Maletesta more face on as they collided with the boards, as Meier's weight is on his right shoulder - but Meier certainly didn't line him up in his numbers when he was initially making contact. I don't think I have ever seen a suspension on a play like that. The initial contact was more to the side and there was nothing malicious about the way he hit him. Post the video in another thread and we can continue the discussion.
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Post by statsman18 on Apr 22, 2015 11:50:25 GMT -4
How about we drop the Moncton, Halifax Bull shit! (Sorry mods if that's offside but needed to be said) let's try and get back on track and talk about the out look of next years team. Well to get things back on track. What do u think about the Mooseheads keeping Brassard as a 20, trade Resop and draft a young goalie. Then with the prospects of getting Ehlers back and also have Meier back. D. Moynihan being back. Fortier a year older and our young D a year older, actually maybe having a pretty good team next Season. Now that we can and should start talking about this again. I think this is 100% what should be done. Even if Ehlers doesn't come back the new Euro might still be a goodie. So not counting on him to put up Ehlers like numbers but let's be some what aggressive and say the new one can put up maybe 65 to 75% of the numbers Ehlers did. Which is a point or slightly better a game. That puts us in a very comfortable position. Do I think that this is a title built team? No but it could be a start and when it comes to playoffs you never know. Our defence will be a year older and place Donaghey in Hardie's spot should be an up grade on a QB for the PP but a down grade on PK. Also we will have at lest one 1st rounder that should bring us a good player that by no mean should we rely on but help out some. I'm thinking twice the out put of Crossley. There's another player who I hope learned a lot from this experience and works on his play and come back and maybe put up numbers like Fortier did this year. If we get these improvements we could make so noise again come playoff time next year?
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Post by guru on Apr 22, 2015 11:53:20 GMT -4
Brassard/Falkenham/Moynihan likely the overagers. I'd keep Bent over Falkenham - he's been an experiment turned bad....What is the experiment? Falkenham can take a regular shift, no issues having him back.
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Post by mooseinfo on Apr 22, 2015 12:41:25 GMT -4
Well to get things back on track. What do u think about the Mooseheads keeping Brassard as a 20, trade Resop and draft a young goalie. Then with the prospects of getting Ehlers back and also have Meier back. D. Moynihan being back. Fortier a year older and our young D a year older, actually maybe having a pretty good team next Season. Now that we can and should start talking about this again. I think this is 100% what should be done. Even if Ehlers doesn't come back the new Euro might still be a goodie. So not counting on him to put up Ehlers like numbers but let's be some what aggressive and say the new one can put up maybe 65 to 75% of the numbers Ehlers did. Which is a point or slightly better a game. That puts us in a very comfortable position. Do I think that this is a title built team? No but it could be a start and when it comes to playoffs you never know. Our defence will be a year older and place Donaghey in Hardie's spot should be an up grade on a QB for the PP but a down grade on PK. Also we will have at lest one 1st rounder that should bring us a good player that by no mean should we rely on but help out some. I'm thinking twice the out put of Crossley. There's another player who I hope learned a lot from this experience and works on his play and come back and maybe put up numbers like Fortier did this year. If we get these improvements we could make so noise again come playoff time next year? In addition to Resop(assume he came with no offers if you like) they also added another FA goalie that was wanted by a few other teams. To sign him they had to offer him a fair shot to play, I would expect. Resop with this better backup(he played too much in a row) sounds like a situation that lets the first be used on a need vice a luxury. So Brassard(20), plus new drafted 1st goalie, and return on Resop as you want. vice Resop, plus FA goalie, new drafted 1st forward, 20yr old forward and return on Brassard. In a year you dont go for title anyway.
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Post by hfxfan09 on Apr 22, 2015 14:42:30 GMT -4
I don't think we'll be in bad shape next year, depending on the Euro situation Meier will likely be back and you never know with Nik the Jets did sent Morrinsey back to Junior at 19. We have a solid 20 in Brassard I'd keep, Falkenham, and Danny. We have lots of picks in June's draft, our forwards will be a year older; or Defence will be a year older with 14 games post-season experience...Hopefully Dom will be back. I can see us finiishing middle of the pack again, we still have some scoring threats will be interesting to see if Timo puts up bigger numbers next year if Nik is gone, just like Nik did this year with Jo gone.(Crossley will be better, Fortiier can be a difference maker)
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