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Post by WHEELsnipePARTY on Mar 5, 2015 23:02:13 GMT -4
I think it was Pickard he was throwing punches at. It's still the principal of the entire situation. When there is a dirty play like that, especially one that results in a player laying motionless on the ice, there will be an emotional response from the victimized team. Negating the major with another major is the WORST thing a ref can do, because after the incident, the play goes back to 5 on 5 (or 4 on 4) and then all hell continues to break loose. It's the same principal of a ref taking 1 player out of a scrum and awarding a powerplay to the other team. It mitigates the emotions on the ice because special teams generally doesn't get chippy and the offending team knows the result of getting into this scenario again. Bathurst got off essentially scott-free after the Crossley hit and emotions continued to soar. They let the game get out of hand. That's the point. That may be the point and I don't disagree with it. But as a referee how can you give a fighting major to someone who makes no attempt to fight? In that situation it was tough to call any other penalty that what they actually did. Bent was the only one throwing. It's not the first time that someone has jumped in after a dirty hit negating a PP but when Bent jumps in like that and no-one is fighting back the ref's hands are pretty much tied. But still normally with that the other guy fights back so they call matching fighting majors but the ref can't give someone a phantom fighting major just because it was a dirty hit. campagana got a fighting major here and didnt even try to fight back
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch on Mar 5, 2015 23:17:55 GMT -4
Yeah it happens sometimes (We are talking about Q refs here)
But more often than not it doesn't
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Post by guru on Mar 6, 2015 0:47:52 GMT -4
I wonder why Palov didn't get this story first? Guru? That is a great question. But it seems like this Croucher guy has been going after things with more hunger than Palov or anyone at the Herald. He was also the first person to report about the Vuic. But yeah, interesting question you posed.
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Post by guru on Mar 6, 2015 1:00:56 GMT -4
Although Elhers has raw talent and is one of the (if not) best forwards in the league, he has created himself a repetition with the refs of this league. That's hard to crack once spread throughout the refs. Kind of afraid the same thing is happening with Svechnikov here in cape breton. Bingo. That is hard to undo in a short amount of time.
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Post by Joe Rogan on Mar 6, 2015 9:12:26 GMT -4
Yeah it happens sometimes (We are talking about Q refs here) But more often than not it doesn't Disagree. Very rarely do you see one guy get a fighting major or aggressor and the other guy nothing, especially when the 2nd party wasn't the cause of the melee.
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Post by seαωo|f on Mar 6, 2015 9:29:09 GMT -4
Yeah it happens sometimes (We are talking about Q refs here) But more often than not it doesn't Disagree. Very rarely do you see one guy get a fighting major or aggressor and the other guy nothing, especially when the 2nd party wasn't the cause of the melee. I thought Bent would get a double minor for roughing and that Francis and/or Pickard were going to pick up a minor for roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct. The aggressor call is a bit excessive.
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Post by L'il Boy on Mar 6, 2015 10:30:13 GMT -4
at least Ehlers does not try to intentionally hurt someone..... Sure he does.....every time he dives, he's intentionally trying to draw a penalty, thus hurting the opposing team!
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch on Mar 6, 2015 10:30:38 GMT -4
Yeah it happens sometimes (We are talking about Q refs here) But more often than not it doesn't Disagree. Very rarely do you see one guy get a fighting major or aggressor and the other guy nothing, especially when the 2nd party wasn't the cause of the melee. About 20 times this season. Is that 'very rarely'?
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Post by catnut on Mar 6, 2015 10:35:27 GMT -4
at least Ehlers does not try to intentionally hurt someone..... Sure he does.....every time he dives, he's intentionally trying to draw a penalty, thus hurting the opposing team! Last weekend, it was feared he had broke Bourque's wrist with a slash in Rimouski. Luckily, there was no break.
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch on Mar 6, 2015 10:37:51 GMT -4
Disagree. Very rarely do you see one guy get a fighting major or aggressor and the other guy nothing, especially when the 2nd party wasn't the cause of the melee. I thought Bent would get a double minor for roughing and that Francis and/or Pickard were going to pick up a minor for roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct. The aggressor call is a bit excessive. I don't know how you can say its excessive. Bent dropped his gloves way away from the melee. And went in with intent and threw numerous punches. How many times does roughing get called on a guy who dropped his gloves and threw numerous punches at an opponent, especially an unwilling one? I hate the fact too this rule prevents you standing up for a team-mate but it's a rule and by the Q rule book it was assessed correctly. Pickard or Francis did nothing to even warrant a minor (hit aside)
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Post by catnut on Mar 6, 2015 11:02:13 GMT -4
I thought Bent would get a double minor for roughing and that Francis and/or Pickard were going to pick up a minor for roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct. The aggressor call is a bit excessive. I don't know how you can say its excessive. Bent dropped his gloves way away from the melee. And went in with intent and threw numerous punches. How many times does roughing get called on a guy who dropped his gloves and threw numerous punches at an opponent, especially an unwilling one? I hate the fact too this rule prevents you standing up for a team-mate but it's a rule and by the Q rule book it was assessed correctly. Pickard or Francis did nothing to even warrant a minor (hit aside) People would agree with you if roles were reversed. For example If Moynahan had dropped someone like that and Simpson started wailing on Leblanc without Leblanc fighting back.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 12:05:26 GMT -4
If Ducharme wants to help Ehlers stick in the NHL, he should teach him to fight through light hooks or bumps instead of flopping when he feels the first tug. Refs dont like being shown up divers and Ehlers has nore than earned his reputation. Ask Gallagher and PK how it is working for them.
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Post by Joe Rogan on Mar 6, 2015 12:07:38 GMT -4
Disagree. Very rarely do you see one guy get a fighting major or aggressor and the other guy nothing, especially when the 2nd party wasn't the cause of the melee. About 20 times this season. Is that 'very rarely'? First time all season i've seen it. It's certainly not 'more often than not' like you implied. There's really been 20 aggressor penalties handed out to players that came to the defense of a teammate who was just greased? I don't believe it.
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch on Mar 6, 2015 12:29:42 GMT -4
About 20 times this season. Is that 'very rarely'? First time all season i've seen it. It's certainly not 'more often than not' like you implied. There's really been 20 aggressor penalties handed out to players that came to the defense of a teammate who was just greased? I don't believe it. The more often than not comment I made was about guys not being given a penalty when someone jumps them. And with the aggressor penalty it doesn't matter whether you are defending a team-mate or not the rule is the same. There have been 34 aggressor penalties this season. 47 last year and 46 the season before. Most of them likely in response to something. This isn't a unique situation.
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Post by Joe Rogan on Mar 6, 2015 12:42:26 GMT -4
First time all season i've seen it. It's certainly not 'more often than not' like you implied. There's really been 20 aggressor penalties handed out to players that came to the defense of a teammate who was just greased? I don't believe it. The more often than not comment I made was about guys not being given a penalty when someone jumps them. And with the aggressor penalty it doesn't matter whether you are defending a team-mate or not the rule is the same. There have been 34 aggressor penalties this season. 47 last year and 46 the season before. Most of them likely in response to something. This isn't a unique situation. I'm not arguing against what you're saying, I just think we're arguing different points. Bent did not just jump someone. He went after Francis but all hell broke loose and guys were grabbing a partner and he ended up with Pickard. He threw like 3 punches before the refs separated them. To me, that is not an aggressor penalty. I think most would agree.
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