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Post by scotiahockey on May 6, 2021 16:35:42 GMT -4
Only problem is outside of Bauer you’re likely looking at quantity over quality. There was some good pitchers available but they’re either older or probably not interested in coming to Toronto.. money talks so someone may have come. I don’t like Springer, his injury history would scare me and I generally think he’s overvalued. There’s no doubt he’s good but I’m not sure he’s worth what they paid. Part of that signing was an image they were trying to shake. The Jays have a weak reputation in free agency and they've started shedding it the last 2 years with Ryu and Springer. Overpaying an OF like Springer who should keep his bat even if his legs go as he ages was way better then overpaying a #3/4 pitcher. Hindsight will say for sure but I think they end up content with that decision as it will have proven to be a bit of a game changer in terms of shifting the image from a rebuild to a powerhouse market trying to contend. Bauer was never happening. Bauer was never happening, I agree but outside of that there wasn’t anyone really worth pursuing. I think they’ll end up being fine with the deal in the end but just not one I would make when considering what he brings/$ paid. Now you almost always overpay those star free agents and it did change the image of the team. They’re no longer a bunch of kids trying to find their way, they’re now a team looking to contend and win in the coming years... whether that’s reality or not is yet to be seen but that’s the appearance at least.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 6, 2021 16:53:20 GMT -4
Part of that signing was an image they were trying to shake. The Jays have a weak reputation in free agency and they've started shedding it the last 2 years with Ryu and Springer. Overpaying an OF like Springer who should keep his bat even if his legs go as he ages was way better then overpaying a #3/4 pitcher. Hindsight will say for sure but I think they end up content with that decision as it will have proven to be a bit of a game changer in terms of shifting the image from a rebuild to a powerhouse market trying to contend. Bauer was never happening. Bauer was never happening, I agree but outside of that there wasn’t anyone really worth pursuing. I think they’ll end up being fine with the deal in the end but just not one I would make when considering what he brings/$ paid. Now you almost always overpay those star free agents and it did change the image of the team. They’re no longer a bunch of kids trying to find their way, they’re now a team looking to contend and win in the coming years... whether that’s reality or not is yet to be seen but that’s the appearance at least. And its not like they blew all they had on Springer. This is a multi year plan with a growing payroll. There will be money and assets available to add when needed. There always has been with a contending club under this ownership.
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Post by hal on May 6, 2021 17:07:51 GMT -4
Bauer did have the Toronto Blue Jays third in the Pecking Order when he put that Video out , along with The Mets .....but The Jays were a Long Shot even if they were his 3rd choice .
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 6, 2021 17:20:15 GMT -4
As I said this winter(not injury related though), they should have spent on a good SP instead. Only problem is outside of Bauer you’re likely looking at quantity over quality. There was some good pitchers available but they’re either older or probably not interested in coming to Toronto.. money talks so someone may have come. I don’t like Springer, his injury history would scare me and I generally think he’s overvalued. There’s no doubt he’s good but I’m not sure he’s worth what they paid. Walker, Morton and Kluber?
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Post by scotiahockey on May 6, 2021 21:52:27 GMT -4
Only problem is outside of Bauer you’re likely looking at quantity over quality. There was some good pitchers available but they’re either older or probably not interested in coming to Toronto.. money talks so someone may have come. I don’t like Springer, his injury history would scare me and I generally think he’s overvalued. There’s no doubt he’s good but I’m not sure he’s worth what they paid. Walker, Morton and Kluber? Kluber is 35 and pitched 8 innings the last 2 years and injured, he was a roll of the dice. Walker has had injury history also, they had him on the team and let him walk or he chose to walk.. makes you wonder if they didn’t see something they weren’t comfortable with either in his medicals or maybe he simply didn’t want to be there. Morton is 37, not a long-term solution and a guy that’s not pitched well. I also think I remember reading he wanted to stay near his family.. Toronto wouldn’t have provided that. Of those guys, Walker is the one that makes the most sense for the team but they let him go. It’s gotta be a 2 way street and whether we think it’s right or wrong, there’s a lot of guys that don’t want to come to Canada.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 7, 2021 9:18:03 GMT -4
Walker, Morton and Kluber? Kluber is 35 and pitched 8 innings the last 2 years and injured, he was a roll of the dice. Walker has had injury history also, they had him on the team and let him walk or he chose to walk.. makes you wonder if they didn’t see something they weren’t comfortable with either in his medicals or maybe he simply didn’t want to be there. Morton is 37, not a long-term solution and a guy that’s not pitched well. I also think I remember reading he wanted to stay near his family.. Toronto wouldn’t have provided that. Of those guys, Walker is the one that makes the most sense for the team but they let him go. It’s gotta be a 2 way street and whether we think it’s right or wrong, there’s a lot of guys that don’t want to come to Canada. The point is, why not take a gamble on an area of need rather than another batter that they don't really need? Maybe their pitching will magically come together but Ryu is one pitch from being back on the DL and Matz and Ray have never been consistent top of the rotation guys. The rest are not guys you usually find as SP on a 1st place team, except maybe Pearson if he can stay healthy and throw strikes.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 7, 2021 9:25:40 GMT -4
Kluber is 35 and pitched 8 innings the last 2 years and injured, he was a roll of the dice. Walker has had injury history also, they had him on the team and let him walk or he chose to walk.. makes you wonder if they didn’t see something they weren’t comfortable with either in his medicals or maybe he simply didn’t want to be there. Morton is 37, not a long-term solution and a guy that’s not pitched well. I also think I remember reading he wanted to stay near his family.. Toronto wouldn’t have provided that. Of those guys, Walker is the one that makes the most sense for the team but they let him go. It’s gotta be a 2 way street and whether we think it’s right or wrong, there’s a lot of guys that don’t want to come to Canada. The point is, why not take a gamble on an area of need rather than another batter that they don't really need? Maybe their pitching will magically come together but Ryu is one pitch from being back on the DL and Matz and Ray have never been consistent top of the rotation guys. The rest are not guys you usually find as SP on a 1st place team, except maybe Pearson if he can stay healthy and throw strikes. Because the options available in the area of need weren't viewed as major improvements based on what they already had. Springer was viewed as a massive improvement on what they had in CF. Signing Walker for 2/20 also gets the "cheap Blue Jays take the easy route again" narrative. Springer completely changes the perception of the team internally and externally. Imagine if Montreal could have acquired an upgrade at the #1 C position this year and acquired a legit #1 C with experience like a Tavares or Kopitar but the price was high. And instead they acquired Eric Staal for a 3rd rounder. The internal impact of adding a #1 C would have been completely different vs the depth forward with name recognition who still fills a hole but isn't bringing the same message to the team. And missing out on the impact forward who can be a difference maker would have been a big blow. Jays coming home with Walker and not Springer would not have been viewed as any kind of success or moved any needles internally.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 7, 2021 9:34:40 GMT -4
The point is, why not take a gamble on an area of need rather than another batter that they don't really need? Maybe their pitching will magically come together but Ryu is one pitch from being back on the DL and Matz and Ray have never been consistent top of the rotation guys. The rest are not guys you usually find as SP on a 1st place team, except maybe Pearson if he can stay healthy and throw strikes. Because the options available in the area of need weren't viewed as major improvements based on what they already had. Springer was viewed as a massive improvement on what they had in CF. Signing Walker for 2/20 also gets the "cheap Blue Jays take the easy route again" narrative. Springer completely changes the perception of the team internally and externally. Imagine if Montreal could have acquired an upgrade at the #1 C position this year and acquired a legit #1 C with experience like a Tavares or Kopitar but the price was high. And instead they acquired Eric Staal for a 3rd rounder. The internal impact of adding a #1 C would have been completely different vs the depth forward with name recognition who still fills a hole but isn't bringing the same message to the team. And missing out on the impact forward who can be a difference maker would have been a big blow. Jays coming home with Walker and not Springer would not have been viewed as any kind of success or moved any needles internally. That's fine, but TB doesn't care about perception, they keep having good results with a tiny payroll. Perception helps sell a few more tickets(except during Covid) but doesn't necessarily win more games. I think Springer's days as full time CF are done, with his injury history(119 games missed in a bit more than 4 years) he is a part time corner OF and part time DH if they want to get more than 120 games from him.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 7, 2021 10:37:02 GMT -4
Because the options available in the area of need weren't viewed as major improvements based on what they already had. Springer was viewed as a massive improvement on what they had in CF. Signing Walker for 2/20 also gets the "cheap Blue Jays take the easy route again" narrative. Springer completely changes the perception of the team internally and externally. Imagine if Montreal could have acquired an upgrade at the #1 C position this year and acquired a legit #1 C with experience like a Tavares or Kopitar but the price was high. And instead they acquired Eric Staal for a 3rd rounder. The internal impact of adding a #1 C would have been completely different vs the depth forward with name recognition who still fills a hole but isn't bringing the same message to the team. And missing out on the impact forward who can be a difference maker would have been a big blow. Jays coming home with Walker and not Springer would not have been viewed as any kind of success or moved any needles internally. That's fine, but TB doesn't care about perception, they keep having good results with a tiny payroll. Perception helps sell a few more tickets(except during Covid) but doesn't necessarily win more games. I think Springer's days as full time CF are done, with his injury history(119 games missed in a bit more than 4 years) he is a part time corner OF and part time DH if they want to get more than 120 games from him. How many other teams have good results with tiny pay rolls? What other market would allow its team to constantly rebuild like Tampa does? None that care. Tampa's market doesn't give a fuck about its baseball team. Unfortunately there's like 30 other teams who can't operate like Tampa because they actually have fans and season ticket holders to try and keep. Perception isnt about selling tickets, either. Especially during a pandemic when you're playing out of AAA stadiums. It's about internal and external perception to the rest of the sport. Thats not ticket sales. It's players and agents viewing you as a destination. You're already dictating Springer's remainder of his career due to 1 current injury. He could end up fine for 3+ years after this. Of course playing in the AL he's going to DH some. But I doubt they're concerned with him playing CF 4-5 times per week for the next few years.
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Post by jimmy on May 7, 2021 11:31:49 GMT -4
That's fine, but TB doesn't care about perception, they keep having good results with a tiny payroll. Perception helps sell a few more tickets(except during Covid) but doesn't necessarily win more games. I think Springer's days as full time CF are done, with his injury history(119 games missed in a bit more than 4 years) he is a part time corner OF and part time DH if they want to get more than 120 games from him. How many other teams have good results with tiny pay rolls? What other market would allow its team to constantly rebuild like Tampa does? None that care. Tampa's market doesn't give a fuck about its baseball team. Unfortunately there's like 30 other teams who can't operate like Tampa because they actually have fans and season ticket holders to try and keep. Perception isnt about selling tickets, either. Especially during a pandemic when you're playing out of AAA stadiums. It's about internal and external perception to the rest of the sport. Thats not ticket sales. It's players and agents viewing you as a destination. You're already dictating Springer's remainder of his career due to 1 current injury. He could end up fine for 3+ years after this. Of course playing in the AL he's going to DH some. But I doubt they're concerned with him playing CF 4-5 times per week for the next few years. Oakland says hi 😁 ... but I otherwise agree with your point.
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Post by jimmy on May 7, 2021 11:37:02 GMT -4
Admittedly a bit of a stretch, but for conversation sake - with Pearson and Manoah, does Buffalo have a better rotation than the Jays right now? I imagine Pearson will be up in the next week or two ... Manoah may not be far behind. I think there is a chance both become impact MLB starters this season.
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Post by Jack Bauer on May 7, 2021 14:26:53 GMT -4
How many other teams have good results with tiny pay rolls? What other market would allow its team to constantly rebuild like Tampa does? None that care. Tampa's market doesn't give a fuck about its baseball team. Unfortunately there's like 30 other teams who can't operate like Tampa because they actually have fans and season ticket holders to try and keep. Perception isnt about selling tickets, either. Especially during a pandemic when you're playing out of AAA stadiums. It's about internal and external perception to the rest of the sport. Thats not ticket sales. It's players and agents viewing you as a destination. You're already dictating Springer's remainder of his career due to 1 current injury. He could end up fine for 3+ years after this. Of course playing in the AL he's going to DH some. But I doubt they're concerned with him playing CF 4-5 times per week for the next few years. Oakland says hi 😁 ... but I otherwise agree with your point. Yeah there's so few. Oakland is even similar in terms of there's rarely huge fan support there. Toronto needs to spend to draw 40,000. Oakland needs to not spent to draw 20,000 and hope every few years they can win a playoff round and get a few larger crowd in playoff games. But Toronto drawing 20,000 means the owners might as well be spending $40mil on payroll because they're not generating enough revenue otherwise. It's a pretty interesting dynamic. All fixed with a salary cap in a way. But that will probably never happen.
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Post by scotiahockey on May 7, 2021 14:50:46 GMT -4
Because the options available in the area of need weren't viewed as major improvements based on what they already had. Springer was viewed as a massive improvement on what they had in CF. Signing Walker for 2/20 also gets the "cheap Blue Jays take the easy route again" narrative. Springer completely changes the perception of the team internally and externally. Imagine if Montreal could have acquired an upgrade at the #1 C position this year and acquired a legit #1 C with experience like a Tavares or Kopitar but the price was high. And instead they acquired Eric Staal for a 3rd rounder. The internal impact of adding a #1 C would have been completely different vs the depth forward with name recognition who still fills a hole but isn't bringing the same message to the team. And missing out on the impact forward who can be a difference maker would have been a big blow. Jays coming home with Walker and not Springer would not have been viewed as any kind of success or moved any needles internally. That's fine, but TB doesn't care about perception, they keep having good results with a tiny payroll. Perception helps sell a few more tickets(except during Covid) but doesn't necessarily win more games. I think Springer's days as full time CF are done, with his injury history(119 games missed in a bit more than 4 years) he is a part time corner OF and part time DH if they want to get more than 120 games from him. He’s only had 2 seasons below 120, he’s constantly a guy that’s banged up and misses games but I don’t think his days as a full-time CF are anywhere near over. He’s had a bad injury this year and that’s bad for the Jays but I’m not ready to say he’s done as a CF and is only a part-time corner OF/DH because of it. At some point he will need to move from CF I’m sure but it’s not right now.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 7, 2021 15:01:30 GMT -4
That's fine, but TB doesn't care about perception, they keep having good results with a tiny payroll. Perception helps sell a few more tickets(except during Covid) but doesn't necessarily win more games. I think Springer's days as full time CF are done, with his injury history(119 games missed in a bit more than 4 years) he is a part time corner OF and part time DH if they want to get more than 120 games from him. He’s only had 2 seasons below 120, he’s constantly a guy that’s banged up and misses games but I don’t think his days as a full-time CF are anywhere near over. He’s had a bad injury this year and that’s bad for the Jays but I’m not ready to say he’s done as a CF and is only a part-time corner OF/DH because of it. At some point he will need to move from CF I’m sure but it’s not right now. At 31 with a bunch of soft tissue Injuries, I suspect his games will even drop from there unless they start giving him 60+ DH games and mostly corner OF.
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Post by hal on May 7, 2021 20:11:51 GMT -4
Why isn't he back in Dunedin getting Full Time Treatment on his injury ? I don't believe I remember a Player travelling all the time with his Team while on the DL .
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