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Post by jordo999 on Jul 1, 2023 16:14:46 GMT -4
so far leafs re-sign Kampf, and sign Reaves....
O'Reilly, Schenn, Holl, Acciari, Bunting, have all signed new deals with different teams...
Acciari got 2M per season in Pittsburgh, I feel he was better than Kampf but we paid Kampf more and a longer term to stay here...
Dubas has signed Graves, Jarry, Nedeljkevic, Acciari, etc. in Pittsburgh and Treliving hasn't done much of anything...so far
Also Leafs still not close on Nylander discussions, wondering if we see a trade at some point. Maybe Calgary is a decent partner and we get Hanifin, however he wants to play in the USA again so it's doubtful.
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Post by hal on Jul 1, 2023 19:19:25 GMT -4
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 4, 2023 12:36:42 GMT -4
Lots to digest on day 4 of free agency.
The good: the short term deals. Some toughness.
Bertuzzi has a lot to prove. If he fits in well could be a candidate for a longer term deal once some other things are settled.
Domi is a nice replacement for a Kerfoot on a 1 year deal.
Klingberg...hopefully finds his game. But bigger picture does having him and bringing everything else back allow you to spread things across 2 PP units? Dont like the aav but for 1 year i'm cautiously optimistic.
Bertuzzi, Reaves, and even Domi to some extent should compliment the group in terms of some grit and compete level. Does that elevate the group? History so far says no. But we'll see if it becomes contagious and if some of our talent is finally ready to push back a bit.
The bad: Term. Locker room issues?
Reaves brings elements we lack. I just question whether he can play enough when it really matters as he gets older.
Whats the real story on O'Rielly? Sounded like the same deal was there if he wanted to come back but he had no interest. Did the short term stay not go as well as perceived? Or is it a case of wanting to get far away from the fish bowl after a small taste of it?
I understood not wanting to give Schenn the term but sucked to see him go after such a solid playoff. There's still a big physical element missing on that back end.
Now get some actual news in place for Matthews and Nylander. To let all this get to July 1 and give yourself no options is a very stupid move in my opinion but hopefully the extensions prove me wrong and we're not now just going to bend over to let Matthews sign short term while Nylander looks for Marner money.
If these guys weren't being signed July 1...someone should have been moved ahead of that.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 4, 2023 21:25:48 GMT -4
Lots to digest on day 4 of free agency. The good: the short term deals. Some toughness. Bertuzzi has a lot to prove. If he fits in well could be a candidate for a longer term deal once some other things are settled. Domi is a nice replacement for a Kerfoot on a 1 year deal. Klingberg...hopefully finds his game. But bigger picture does having him and bringing everything else back allow you to spread things across 2 PP units? Dont like the aav but for 1 year i'm cautiously optimistic. Bertuzzi, Reaves, and even Domi to some extent should compliment the group in terms of some grit and compete level. Does that elevate the group? History so far says no. But we'll see if it becomes contagious and if some of our talent is finally ready to push back a bit. The bad: Term. Locker room issues? Reaves brings elements we lack. I just question whether he can play enough when it really matters as he gets older. Whats the real story on O'Rielly? Sounded like the same deal was there if he wanted to come back but he had no interest. Did the short term stay not go as well as perceived? Or is it a case of wanting to get far away from the fish bowl after a small taste of it? I understood not wanting to give Schenn the term but sucked to see him go after such a solid playoff. There's still a big physical element missing on that back end. Now get some actual news in place for Matthews and Nylander. To let all this get to July 1 and give yourself no options is a very stupid move in my opinion but hopefully the extensions prove me wrong and we're not now just going to bend over to let Matthews sign short term while Nylander looks for Marner money. If these guys weren't being signed July 1...someone should have been moved ahead of that. Not sure if true but Nylander at 10M seems nuts... Willyston Riellander @nylanderthews Chris Johnston on the CJ Show says it's not going well between the Leafs and William Nylander, they just see the world differently. Nylander believes he should be a $10 million player or just a little above that on his next contract, whereas the Leafs have come at him with a number in the $8 million range. 4:22 PM · Jul 3, 2023 · 960.5K Views
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 5, 2023 10:19:53 GMT -4
Lots to digest on day 4 of free agency. The good: the short term deals. Some toughness. Bertuzzi has a lot to prove. If he fits in well could be a candidate for a longer term deal once some other things are settled. Domi is a nice replacement for a Kerfoot on a 1 year deal. Klingberg...hopefully finds his game. But bigger picture does having him and bringing everything else back allow you to spread things across 2 PP units? Dont like the aav but for 1 year i'm cautiously optimistic. Bertuzzi, Reaves, and even Domi to some extent should compliment the group in terms of some grit and compete level. Does that elevate the group? History so far says no. But we'll see if it becomes contagious and if some of our talent is finally ready to push back a bit. The bad: Term. Locker room issues? Reaves brings elements we lack. I just question whether he can play enough when it really matters as he gets older. Whats the real story on O'Rielly? Sounded like the same deal was there if he wanted to come back but he had no interest. Did the short term stay not go as well as perceived? Or is it a case of wanting to get far away from the fish bowl after a small taste of it? I understood not wanting to give Schenn the term but sucked to see him go after such a solid playoff. There's still a big physical element missing on that back end. Now get some actual news in place for Matthews and Nylander. To let all this get to July 1 and give yourself no options is a very stupid move in my opinion but hopefully the extensions prove me wrong and we're not now just going to bend over to let Matthews sign short term while Nylander looks for Marner money. If these guys weren't being signed July 1...someone should have been moved ahead of that. Not sure if true but Nylander at 10M seems nuts... Willyston Riellander @nylanderthews Chris Johnston on the CJ Show says it's not going well between the Leafs and William Nylander, they just see the world differently. Nylander believes he should be a $10 million player or just a little above that on his next contract, whereas the Leafs have come at him with a number in the $8 million range. 4:22 PM · Jul 3, 2023 · 960.5K Views He should be a $10 mil player or close to it. 40 goal scorer, point per game, and producing in the playoffs at the same rate basically. There's enough comparables around $10 mil from the last 2 offseasons that if you project just 1-2 years and a $90 mil cap or so in the summer of 2025 that a point per game 40 goal scorer is a $10 million player. Does that mean I give it to him? No. In this situation he's a luxury that I let someone else pay $10 mil for on a long term deal. It makes sense for Toronto to push for a home town deal while Willy pushes for his upper limit. In the end they determine whether he's a luxury they can afford or not. But this "X player isnt worth what they want" talk with 0 context or discussion about it is just pointless. To me its simple that in a $90+ million cap world that a 40 goal scorer is worth $10 mil. Thats a top 15 goal scorer in the world who is also a top 20 point producer.
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Post by scotiahockey on Jul 5, 2023 16:43:08 GMT -4
Not sure if true but Nylander at 10M seems nuts... Willyston Riellander @nylanderthews Chris Johnston on the CJ Show says it's not going well between the Leafs and William Nylander, they just see the world differently. Nylander believes he should be a $10 million player or just a little above that on his next contract, whereas the Leafs have come at him with a number in the $8 million range. 4:22 PM · Jul 3, 2023 · 960.5K Views He should be a $10 mil player or close to it. 40 goal scorer, point per game, and producing in the playoffs at the same rate basically. There's enough comparables around $10 mil from the last 2 offseasons that if you project just 1-2 years and a $90 mil cap or so in the summer of 2025 that a point per game 40 goal scorer is a $10 million player. Does that mean I give it to him? No. In this situation he's a luxury that I let someone else pay $10 mil for on a long term deal. It makes sense for Toronto to push for a home town deal while Willy pushes for his upper limit. In the end they determine whether he's a luxury they can afford or not. But this "X player isnt worth what they want" talk with 0 context or discussion about it is just pointless. To me its simple that in a $90+ million cap world that a 40 goal scorer is worth $10 mil. Thats a top 15 goal scorer in the world who is also a top 20 point producer. I really think people get too caught up in the $ amount and don’t consider the % of the cap enough. We hear about all these “team friendly” contracts that players sign. The reality is, they weren’t team friendly at the time. They maximized their value based on the cap at the time and then the cap went up. It’s how this sports contracts work (unless it doesn’t go up) and it’s how most of these “team friendly” deals come to be. I didn’t hear a lot of people talking about how great the Draisaitl deal was when he’d never had a 30 goal or 80 point season but as the cap went up and he got better, he became a player who took a “team friendly” deal. Same with MacKinnon who’d never scored 25 goals or hit 65 points and had a terrible 1st year of his extension at 6.6 but then the cap went up and he improved and everyone said he took a “team friendly” deal. Nylander and the Leafs were vilified when they signed this last deal but over time, he became team friendly. Now this isn’t the same situation because Nylander is likely closer to the end than the beginning of elite production but if Meier at 8.8 is a good comparable (even though they play different styles and Nylander has been more productive) then when the cap is closer to 88 million next year when a Nylander extension would kick in, then Nylander’s contract should be worth 9.25. It’s not the same $ amount but it’s the same contract. As the cap grows, so does the expectations of salary. There’s no reason to compare past contracts to ones signed now, unless you’re comparing a % of cap hit. Now the reality probably is that Nylander is worth more to another team then he is to the Leafs because of the $ they pay everyone else. Nylander is better then a lot of people want to give him credit for and he’ll probably get paid more then a lot of people want to admit. He’s in a strange position where there’s 31 other teams that would want a 40 goal, 80 point winger for something around what he likely gets but the Leafs can’t do it because of the salary constraints they put on themselves (along with a flat cap) and a lot of other teams are in the same position with the flat cap. If he wants to stay in Toronto he probably has to take less what he can get else where but it isn’t because he doesn’t deserve a higher salary. It’s that he’s played himself out of their price range because they have too many other players that they have to pay.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 6, 2023 8:45:02 GMT -4
He should be a $10 mil player or close to it. 40 goal scorer, point per game, and producing in the playoffs at the same rate basically. There's enough comparables around $10 mil from the last 2 offseasons that if you project just 1-2 years and a $90 mil cap or so in the summer of 2025 that a point per game 40 goal scorer is a $10 million player. Does that mean I give it to him? No. In this situation he's a luxury that I let someone else pay $10 mil for on a long term deal. It makes sense for Toronto to push for a home town deal while Willy pushes for his upper limit. In the end they determine whether he's a luxury they can afford or not. But this "X player isnt worth what they want" talk with 0 context or discussion about it is just pointless. To me its simple that in a $90+ million cap world that a 40 goal scorer is worth $10 mil. Thats a top 15 goal scorer in the world who is also a top 20 point producer. I really think people get too caught up in the $ amount and don’t consider the % of the cap enough. We hear about all these “team friendly” contracts that players sign. The reality is, they weren’t team friendly at the time. They maximized their value based on the cap at the time and then the cap went up. It’s how this sports contracts work (unless it doesn’t go up) and it’s how most of these “team friendly” deals come to be. I didn’t hear a lot of people talking about how great the Draisaitl deal was when he’d never had a 30 goal or 80 point season but as the cap went up and he got better, he became a player who took a “team friendly” deal. Same with MacKinnon who’d never scored 25 goals or hit 65 points and had a terrible 1st year of his extension at 6.6 but then the cap went up and he improved and everyone said he took a “team friendly” deal. Nylander and the Leafs were vilified when they signed this last deal but over time, he became team friendly. Now this isn’t the same situation because Nylander is likely closer to the end than the beginning of elite production but if Meier at 8.8 is a good comparable (even though they play different styles and Nylander has been more productive) then when the cap is closer to 88 million next year when a Nylander extension would kick in, then Nylander’s contract should be worth 9.25. It’s not the same $ amount but it’s the same contract. As the cap grows, so does the expectations of salary. There’s no reason to compare past contracts to ones signed now, unless you’re comparing a % of cap hit. Now the reality probably is that Nylander is worth more to another team then he is to the Leafs because of the $ they pay everyone else. Nylander is better then a lot of people want to give him credit for and he’ll probably get paid more then a lot of people want to admit. He’s in a strange position where there’s 31 other teams that would want a 40 goal, 80 point winger for something around what he likely gets but the Leafs can’t do it because of the salary constraints they put on themselves (along with a flat cap) and a lot of other teams are in the same position with the flat cap. If he wants to stay in Toronto he probably has to take less what he can get else where but it isn’t because he doesn’t deserve a higher salary. It’s that he’s played himself out of their price range because they have too many other players that they have to pay. It's clear some people don't watch a lot of hockey when the comments on a Nylander are like it's still 2017 and we don't know what he can be. We know now. He's at his ceiling as a 40+ goal scorer while not being the top scoring option on his team....and not even a 1st line player necessarily. Like you said...every team craves that type of offense. But the timing means we can't pay him and also can't maximize a trade return. So we're left hoping for a Hall for Larsson type of need for need kind of thing. Is there a physical top 4 defensemen to be had for a Nylander? I'd like to think so. And think that dynamic does more for the overall group vs what Willy brings.
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Post by Score on Jul 6, 2023 9:11:51 GMT -4
Can't wait to see Xhekaj dummy Domi...
🤣
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Post by jordo999 on Jul 6, 2023 11:39:20 GMT -4
I really think people get too caught up in the $ amount and don’t consider the % of the cap enough. We hear about all these “team friendly” contracts that players sign. The reality is, they weren’t team friendly at the time. They maximized their value based on the cap at the time and then the cap went up. It’s how this sports contracts work (unless it doesn’t go up) and it’s how most of these “team friendly” deals come to be. I didn’t hear a lot of people talking about how great the Draisaitl deal was when he’d never had a 30 goal or 80 point season but as the cap went up and he got better, he became a player who took a “team friendly” deal. Same with MacKinnon who’d never scored 25 goals or hit 65 points and had a terrible 1st year of his extension at 6.6 but then the cap went up and he improved and everyone said he took a “team friendly” deal. Nylander and the Leafs were vilified when they signed this last deal but over time, he became team friendly. Now this isn’t the same situation because Nylander is likely closer to the end than the beginning of elite production but if Meier at 8.8 is a good comparable (even though they play different styles and Nylander has been more productive) then when the cap is closer to 88 million next year when a Nylander extension would kick in, then Nylander’s contract should be worth 9.25. It’s not the same $ amount but it’s the same contract. As the cap grows, so does the expectations of salary. There’s no reason to compare past contracts to ones signed now, unless you’re comparing a % of cap hit. Now the reality probably is that Nylander is worth more to another team then he is to the Leafs because of the $ they pay everyone else. Nylander is better then a lot of people want to give him credit for and he’ll probably get paid more then a lot of people want to admit. He’s in a strange position where there’s 31 other teams that would want a 40 goal, 80 point winger for something around what he likely gets but the Leafs can’t do it because of the salary constraints they put on themselves (along with a flat cap) and a lot of other teams are in the same position with the flat cap. If he wants to stay in Toronto he probably has to take less what he can get else where but it isn’t because he doesn’t deserve a higher salary. It’s that he’s played himself out of their price range because they have too many other players that they have to pay. It's clear some people don't watch a lot of hockey when the comments on a Nylander are like it's still 2017 and we don't know what he can be. We know now. He's at his ceiling as a 40+ goal scorer while not being the top scoring option on his team....and not even a 1st line player necessarily. Like you said...every team craves that type of offense. But the timing means we can't pay him and also can't maximize a trade return. So we're left hoping for a Hall for Larsson type of need for need kind of thing. Is there a physical top 4 defensemen to be had for a Nylander? I'd like to think so. And think that dynamic does more for the overall group vs what Willy brings. Carolina could still end up being a trade partner if we go that route for Nylander. Carolina desperately needs scoring, and Nylander can give them that. I'd still personally dislike having to move on from him but I think Pesce + Jarvis could potentially be a starting point of a deal. Pesce is in his prime and a solid stay at home D, right hand shot, and can actually put up some points here and there. Jarvis is till young and has potential to be a 20-25 goal scorer who could "replace" Nylander up front. It's hard to judge the values of this trade overall because both Nylander and Pesce bring different elements to the game.
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Post by Jack Bauer on Jul 6, 2023 11:50:18 GMT -4
It's clear some people don't watch a lot of hockey when the comments on a Nylander are like it's still 2017 and we don't know what he can be. We know now. He's at his ceiling as a 40+ goal scorer while not being the top scoring option on his team....and not even a 1st line player necessarily. Like you said...every team craves that type of offense. But the timing means we can't pay him and also can't maximize a trade return. So we're left hoping for a Hall for Larsson type of need for need kind of thing. Is there a physical top 4 defensemen to be had for a Nylander? I'd like to think so. And think that dynamic does more for the overall group vs what Willy brings. Carolina could still end up being a trade partner if we go that route for Nylander. Carolina desperately needs scoring, and Nylander can give them that. I'd still personally dislike having to move on from him but I think Pesce + Jarvis could potentially be a starting point of a deal. Pesce is in his prime and a solid stay at home D, right hand shot, and can actually put up some points here and there. Jarvis is till young and has potential to be a 20-25 goal scorer who could "replace" Nylander up front. It's hard to judge the values of this trade overall because both Nylander and Pesce bring different elements to the game. Agreed. There's a domino effect here too. Carolina has talked to Tarasenko. But there's a belief that if/when Debrincat goes to Detroit that Tarasenko may sign in Ottawa. If that happens do more teams come looking for Nylander? Once the FA market dries up in terms of scoring...Nylander suddenly looks pretty good as a trade target...but maybe not if you still have hope as a B option for a Tarasenko.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Jul 7, 2023 16:03:41 GMT -4
It's clear some people don't watch a lot of hockey when the comments on a Nylander are like it's still 2017 and we don't know what he can be. We know now. He's at his ceiling as a 40+ goal scorer while not being the top scoring option on his team....and not even a 1st line player necessarily. Like you said...every team craves that type of offense. But the timing means we can't pay him and also can't maximize a trade return. So we're left hoping for a Hall for Larsson type of need for need kind of thing. Is there a physical top 4 defensemen to be had for a Nylander? I'd like to think so. And think that dynamic does more for the overall group vs what Willy brings. Carolina could still end up being a trade partner if we go that route for Nylander. Carolina desperately needs scoring, and Nylander can give them that. I'd still personally dislike having to move on from him but I think Pesce + Jarvis could potentially be a starting point of a deal. Pesce is in his prime and a solid stay at home D, right hand shot, and can actually put up some points here and there. Jarvis is till young and has potential to be a 20-25 goal scorer who could "replace" Nylander up front. It's hard to judge the values of this trade overall because both Nylander and Pesce bring different elements to the game. You think Carolina would give that much to pay Nylander 10M AAV?
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Post by hal on Jul 7, 2023 16:10:02 GMT -4
Carolina could still end up being a trade partner if we go that route for Nylander. Carolina desperately needs scoring, and Nylander can give them that. I'd still personally dislike having to move on from him but I think Pesce + Jarvis could potentially be a starting point of a deal. Pesce is in his prime and a solid stay at home D, right hand shot, and can actually put up some points here and there. Jarvis is till young and has potential to be a 20-25 goal scorer who could "replace" Nylander up front. It's hard to judge the values of this trade overall because both Nylander and Pesce bring different elements to the game. You think Carolina would give that much to pay Nylander 10M AAV? There is a belief amongst the NHL Inside Guys that The Carolina Owner has shown that he will pay the Big Money ........his problem is the Term Lengths . Carolina first and foremost has to be on his 10 Team Trade List .
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Post by jordo999 on Jul 8, 2023 13:37:05 GMT -4
Carolina could still end up being a trade partner if we go that route for Nylander. Carolina desperately needs scoring, and Nylander can give them that. I'd still personally dislike having to move on from him but I think Pesce + Jarvis could potentially be a starting point of a deal. Pesce is in his prime and a solid stay at home D, right hand shot, and can actually put up some points here and there. Jarvis is till young and has potential to be a 20-25 goal scorer who could "replace" Nylander up front. It's hard to judge the values of this trade overall because both Nylander and Pesce bring different elements to the game. You think Carolina would give that much to pay Nylander 10M AAV? why wouldn't they? Also I don't think Pesce and Jarvis are that far off in terms of equal value. Carolina is also littered with talented D-men and are still trying to bring DeAngelo back. Jarvis is young and has potential yes but he's not elite. Nylander would be their best scorer even above Svechnikov and could really push them over the edge. Svechnikov/Aho/Nylander could end up being on of the top lines in the league. Plus to get a 40 goal scorer you have to give something up as well. Nylander is in his prime.
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Post by jordo999 on Jul 8, 2023 13:46:24 GMT -4
19 players scored 40 or more goals this past season. 9 of which are centermen, so Nylander is 1 of 10 true wingers to score 40 goals. His value is up there.
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Post by Score on Jul 18, 2023 14:33:02 GMT -4
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