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Post by forrest on Nov 3, 2008 17:18:42 GMT -4
It may hurt Roski or whoever is the 13th forward at the time, but it's a small price to pay to have the other 18 guys in the lineup not having to worry about guys taking liberties with them. If there was no use for guys like Lane then NHL teams would not carry enforcers...and neither would Flynn. How the hell can Lane keep opponent players honest with these new rules. I'm not saying there can't be any fighting at all, but everytime Lane has fought, it was right after a whistle. It was an orchestrated fight. He has no impact when it matters. If players want to take liberties on our player, they can do so and they won't have to face lane. They don't even have to be afraid that he will catch them with their head down or something because he can't even throw a bodycheck. If I was playing against the cats, I would be more afraid of getting caught with my head down againnst Lessard, Sill, Brannon, Roski, Brown and even MacAusland. If anyone takes a liberty at one of our players and doesn't want to fight, there is not a damn thing Lane can do without getting a suspension. Any years prior to this one, I would agree it is worth having a guy like Lane in the lineup, but now, I don't think it gives much more confidence to his teamates. And don't throw the record at me stating they are 16-0-2 with him playing 4 shifts per game in 8 games. We will never know if they would have done the same without him or not.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 3, 2008 18:34:02 GMT -4
It may hurt Roski or whoever is the 13th forward at the time, but it's a small price to pay to have the other 18 guys in the lineup not having to worry about guys taking liberties with them. If there was no use for guys like Lane then NHL teams would not carry enforcers...and neither would Flynn. How the hell can Lane keep opponent players honest with these new rules. I'm not saying there can't be any fighting at all, but everytime Lane has fought, it was right after a whistle. It was an orchestrated fight. He has no impact when it matters. If players want to take liberties on our player, they can do so and they won't have to face lane. They don't even have to be afraid that he will catch them with their head down or something because he can't even throw a bodycheck. If I was playing against the cats, I would be more afraid of getting caught with my head down againnst Lessard, Sill, Brannon, Roski, Brown and even MacAusland. If anyone takes a liberty at one of our players and doesn't want to fight, there is not a damn thing Lane can do without getting a suspension. Any years prior to this one, I would agree it is worth having a guy like Lane in the lineup, but now, I don't think it gives much more confidence to his teamates. And don't throw the record at me stating they are 16-0-2 with him playing 4 shifts per game in 8 games. We will never know if they would have done the same without him or not. You can send a pretty clear message without getting a suspension. Do you think the only way enforcers do their job is to jump guys? The potential of a 240lbs guy going ape shit on your ass is a pretty good deterrent to 99% of the players in the league. The other 1% maybe a guy like Lane needs to take a penality or suspension, no big deal...I'll kill of the 5 minutes if it means our guys play 2-3 inches bigger out there.
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Post by forrest on Nov 3, 2008 21:41:01 GMT -4
You can send a pretty clear message without getting a suspension. Do you think the only way enforcers do their job is to jump guys? The potential of a 240lbs guy going ape shit on your ass is a pretty good deterrent to 99% of the players in the league. The other 1% maybe a guy like Lane needs to take a penality or suspension, no big deal...I'll kill of the 5 minutes if it means our guys play 2-3 inches bigger out there. Please, tell me how... He can't throw a decent body check, so he can't do anything during the play, and any instigating he's going to get will get him suspended, so all a player has to do is turtle away and they have just handle Lane's case.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 4, 2008 0:11:35 GMT -4
You can send a pretty clear message without getting a suspension. Do you think the only way enforcers do their job is to jump guys? The potential of a 240lbs guy going ape shit on your ass is a pretty good deterrent to 99% of the players in the league. The other 1% maybe a guy like Lane needs to take a penality or suspension, no big deal...I'll kill of the 5 minutes if it means our guys play 2-3 inches bigger out there. Please, tell me how... He can't throw a decent body check, so he can't do anything during the play, and any instigating he's going to get will get him suspended, so all a player has to do is turtle away and they have just handle Lane's case. Get in the guy's face...give him a top quality facewash after the whistle, threaten to rearrange his facial features. I doubt you average Q player is thinking about suspensions if some 6'8" guy that might be nuts is threatening to rip your head off. There are very stiff penalities in the real world also, but people get beat up and killed anyways...point being that people can still be intimidated if you really need to.
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Post by forrest on Nov 4, 2008 8:25:44 GMT -4
Please, tell me how... He can't throw a decent body check, so he can't do anything during the play, and any instigating he's going to get will get him suspended, so all a player has to do is turtle away and they have just handle Lane's case. Get in the guy's face...give him a top quality facewash after the whistle, threaten to rearrange his facial features. I doubt you average Q player is thinking about suspensions if some 6'8" guy that might be nuts is threatening to rip your head off. There are very stiff penalities in the real world also, but people get beat up and killed anyways...point being that people can still be intimidated if you really need to. How many facewash did you see this year. Next to none, especially compared to previous years. This is not a shcool playground. I agree they are teenagers and the first thing they think might not always be the suspension, but most players can learn to live with the threats when they know they are protected by the league officials.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 4, 2008 9:01:59 GMT -4
Get in the guy's face...give him a top quality facewash after the whistle, threaten to rearrange his facial features. I doubt you average Q player is thinking about suspensions if some 6'8" guy that might be nuts is threatening to rip your head off. There are very stiff penalities in the real world also, but people get beat up and killed anyways...point being that people can still be intimidated if you really need to. How many facewash did you see this year. Next to none, especially compared to previous years. This is not a shcool playground. I agree they are teenagers and the first thing they think might not always be the suspension, but most players can learn to live with the threats when they know they are protected by the league officials. How many times have you felt they were warranted ? Nobody is taking runs at our guys ... nobody is intimidating us at all. Do you think that having Lane in the lineup plays a factor in that ? Lane sits out half the time ... but he'll sit out against teams that don't have any toughness. And who cares if Lane gets suspended for a game ... he doesn't play every game anyway. Lane is disposable ... a guy like Boyle is not ... if we lose Boyle for a game then our team is weakened. Also .. right now Roski is the only one being disadvantaged. He is 16 and a bit of hot head ... and Flynn uses the opportunity to make him a healthy scratch to get him to stay in line ... as right now he is a bit of a loose cannon out there. Roski has tons of time for development ... Eagles didn't play much at 17 (his first year) and he turned out just fine. Ted Stephens seems to have developed just fine and he played very little in the 1st half ... same as MacAusland who is now a regular guy that gets better every game. Kelan herr didn't hurt their development. Don't worry about Roski ... Flynn knows what he is doing.
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Post by hockey1981 on Nov 4, 2008 9:18:24 GMT -4
How many facewash did you see this year. Next to none, especially compared to previous years. This is not a shcool playground. I agree they are teenagers and the first thing they think might not always be the suspension, but most players can learn to live with the threats when they know they are protected by the league officials. How many times have you felt they were warranted ? Nobody is taking runs at our guys ... nobody is intimidating us at all. Do you think that having Lane in the lineup plays a factor in that ? Lane sits out half the time ... but he'll sit out against teams that don't have any toughness. And who cares if Lane gets suspended for a game ... he doesn't play every game anyway. Lane is disposable ... a guy like Boyle is not ... if we lose Boyle for a game then our team is weakened. Also .. right now Roski is the only one being disadvantaged. He is 16 and a bit of hot head ... and Flynn uses the opportunity to make him a healthy scratch to get him to stay in line ... as right now he is a bit of a loose cannon out there. Roski has tons of time for development ... Eagles didn't play much at 17 (his first year) and he turned out just fine. Ted Stephens seems to have developed just fine and he played very little in the 1st half ... same as MacAusland who is now a regular guy that gets better every game. Kelan herr didn't hurt their development. Don't worry about Roski ... Flynn knows what he is doing. Roski's 17...
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 4, 2008 9:32:37 GMT -4
How many times have you felt they were warranted ? Nobody is taking runs at our guys ... nobody is intimidating us at all. Do you think that having Lane in the lineup plays a factor in that ? Lane sits out half the time ... but he'll sit out against teams that don't have any toughness. And who cares if Lane gets suspended for a game ... he doesn't play every game anyway. Lane is disposable ... a guy like Boyle is not ... if we lose Boyle for a game then our team is weakened. Also .. right now Roski is the only one being disadvantaged. He is 16 and a bit of hot head ... and Flynn uses the opportunity to make him a healthy scratch to get him to stay in line ... as right now he is a bit of a loose cannon out there. Roski has tons of time for development ... Eagles didn't play much at 17 (his first year) and he turned out just fine. Ted Stephens seems to have developed just fine and he played very little in the 1st half ... same as MacAusland who is now a regular guy that gets better every game. Kelan herr didn't hurt their development. Don't worry about Roski ... Flynn knows what he is doing. Roski's 17... Correct you are ... but the point remains.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 4, 2008 9:41:38 GMT -4
I'm not disputing the presence of an enforcer, I'm disputing the presence of a goon who does nothing else. Very rare to find a goon on an NHL team these days that provides nothing else. Lane is a liability in other areas of the game. And, if the counter is that he isn't a liability only playing 2 minutes a game, his liability is that he is taking a roster spot from other players (Roski). At no point did I suggest Flynn doesn't know what he's doing. I'm just second guessing and adding to the discussion. You know... the point of a message board. Sheesh. People on this board are awfully negative. Not regarding the team, but toward other posters. All I did was join the discussion and AceKikr and SteveUL go on the offensive. At least be respectful and engage in intelligent conversation and not just act like a sarcastic jerk. C'mon people. Negative ? Respectful ? You call Jordan Lane a bum and then you get a little whiney because people challenge you on that ? You get treated with respect when you earn that ... all you have earned is ridicule for the posts you have made so far. Feel free to have the opinion that Lane isn't working out ... I have the opinion that he is working just fine ... we are both allowed to have our opinions ... and allowed to express them ... but be respectful to the players that are pouring their hearts out out there and in practice to try to improve. Lane knows his role and he seems to accept it willingly ... one of the toughest roles in all of sports. Just remember the late John Kordic and the late Trevor Ettinger and you'll know how tough a role it is being a hockey enforcer.
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Post by forrest on Nov 4, 2008 13:14:49 GMT -4
As many time as previous years.
There might be a small difference with previous years, I don't see a huge difference than previous years. I don't think having Lane in the lineup is the reason for that. The Wildcats have won games with and without lane, and they have lost one with him in the lineup and one with him out of the lineup. So there is no strong evidence that you can bring that shows he has a significant impact.
... Thanks for agreeing with me.
I wasn't the one complaining that Lane was taking Roski's spot. You don't need to quote me and throw that at me.
What I don't like about having Lane in the lineup is it makes it more difficult to give quality icetime to the other two players on the 4th line, Bissonnette and Famin.
Don't get me wrong, if he was dominating his fights at least, I wouldn't mind, but so far, I don't see what he brought to the team.
I will agree on few things however... I am one of the first fan to stand up and cheer when he drops the gloves. People do talk about him and it might help sell a few tickets.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 4, 2008 13:32:03 GMT -4
As many time as previous years. There might be a small difference with previous years, I don't see a huge difference than previous years. I don't think having Lane in the lineup is the reason for that. The Wildcats have won games with and without lane, and they have lost one with him in the lineup and one with him out of the lineup. So there is no strong evidence that you can bring that shows he has a significant impact. ... Thanks for agreeing with me. I wasn't the one complaining that Lane was taking Roski's spot. You don't need to quote me and throw that at me. What I don't like about having Lane in the lineup is it makes it more difficult to give quality icetime to the other two players on the 4th line, Bissonnette and Famin. Don't get me wrong, if he was dominating his fights at least, I wouldn't mind, but so far, I don't see what he brought to the team. I will agree on few things however... I am one of the first fan to stand up and cheer when he drops the gloves. People do talk about him and it might help sell a few tickets. When I say a guy like Lane is disposable ... I mean it does not hurt us if he is suspended for a few games ... but it does hurt us if a guy like Boyle is. So I'm saying we need to have a disposable guy on the team. Bissonnette and Famin get plenty of shifts without Lane ... they get more icetime than Lane does so he isn't holding them back either. If anything ... Bissonnette and Famin are cutting into the icetime of Brown and Macausland. We roll 4 lines but our 4th line is usually Famin, Bissonnette and another guy like Petterson. We always need to have toughness in the lineup ... we needed Herr last year ... and we need Lane this year. It doesn't matter that Lane isn't destroying anybody ... the fact that he will fight anybody and do well is good enough. Its not like the league is full of Kevin Cormiers anymore ... Lane is good enough. If we could find some toughness that had better hockey skill that would be great ... but that isn't really out there ... and then those guys become even less disposable. Lane's hockey skills have improved noticeably since the pre-season ... probably a conditioning and Coaching combination.
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Nov 4, 2008 13:44:10 GMT -4
As many time as previous years. There might be a small difference with previous years, I don't see a huge difference than previous years. I don't think having Lane in the lineup is the reason for that. The Wildcats have won games with and without lane, and they have lost one with him in the lineup and one with him out of the lineup. So there is no strong evidence that you can bring that shows he has a significant impact. ... Thanks for agreeing with me. I wasn't the one complaining that Lane was taking Roski's spot. You don't need to quote me and throw that at me. What I don't like about having Lane in the lineup is it makes it more difficult to give quality icetime to the other two players on the 4th line, Bissonnette and Famin. Don't get me wrong, if he was dominating his fights at least, I wouldn't mind, but so far, I don't see what he brought to the team. I will agree on few things however... I am one of the first fan to stand up and cheer when he drops the gloves. People do talk about him and it might help sell a few tickets. When I say a guy like Lane is disposable ... I mean it does not hurt us if he is suspended for a few games ... You are completely contradicting yourself here. Having Lane out of the lineup makes no difference to your team? Arent you arguing that with him, the fans show up, the team is protected, there is nobody taking liberties etc? But when he's not in the lineup, you dont miss him? Sounds like he brings very little to the table if you say his loss means nothing. You are only making a case for those who feel the young/skilled should be using that icetime.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 4, 2008 13:55:52 GMT -4
When I say a guy like Lane is disposable ... I mean it does not hurt us if he is suspended for a few games ... You are completely contradicting yourself here. Having Lane out of the lineup makes no difference to your team? Arent you arguing that with him, the fans show up, the team is protected, there is nobody taking liberties etc? But when he's not in the lineup, you dont miss him? Sounds like he brings very little to the table if you say his loss means nothing. You are only making a case for those who feel the young/skilled should be using that icetime. We don't need him against all teams ... just teams that have a few guys that like to grease it up. Lane hasn't been suspended yet but that day will probably come sooner than later. And on those days ... guys like Boyle, Lessard and Sill will answer the bell when needed ... being careful to stay within the rules to prevent suspensions. Our young skilled guys get more icetime than they would on a lot of other teams ... even with Lane in the lineup. Roski gets more icetime than his twin brother does in Shawinigan ... the one drafted higher than him. Andrew Roski has played 9 games here and missed a bunch due to injury ... while his brother has 7 gp in Shaw and I have no idea if he has been injured. Roski even gets PK time here ... how many rookie forwards get that elsewhere ? The only guy on our team not getting icetime is Bell ... and Lane has no affect on his icetime since Bell is a Dman. Are you suggesting that Danny Flynn doesn't know what he is doing ? Do you think Flynn would rather go with no enforcer ?
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Post by CrazyJoeDavola on Nov 4, 2008 14:03:43 GMT -4
You are completely contradicting yourself here. Having Lane out of the lineup makes no difference to your team? Arent you arguing that with him, the fans show up, the team is protected, there is nobody taking liberties etc? But when he's not in the lineup, you dont miss him? Sounds like he brings very little to the table if you say his loss means nothing. You are only making a case for those who feel the young/skilled should be using that icetime. We don't need him against all teams ... just teams that have a few guys that like to grease it up. Lane hasn't been suspended yet but that day will probably come sooner than later. And on those days ... guys like Boyle, Lessard and Sill will answer the bell when needed ... being careful to stay within the rules to prevent suspensions. Our young skilled guys get more icetime than they would on a lot of other teams ... even with Lane in the lineup. Roski gets more icetime than his twin brother does in Shawinigan ... the one drafted higher than him. Andrew Roski has played 9 games here and missed a bunch due to injury ... while his brother has 7 gp in Shaw and I have no idea if he has been injured. Roski even gets PK time here ... how many rookie forwards get that elsewhere ? The only guy on our team not getting icetime is Bell ... and Lane has no affect on his icetime since Bell is a Dman. Are you suggesting that Danny Flynn doesn't know what he is doing ? Do you think Flynn would rather go with no enforcer ? lol again with the all-knowing Flynn comment... I am a fan of having a tough guy on the bench, even if he's a limited skilled 4th liner, for many reasons you mention (although I think you give his presence a bit too much weight considering he doesnt play a regular shift, hit etc). I am just saying you are arguing all the great things his presence does, but then turn around and say if he gets a suspension and/or misses a few games, its no loss.
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Post by SteveUL on Nov 4, 2008 14:23:08 GMT -4
We don't need him against all teams ... just teams that have a few guys that like to grease it up. Lane hasn't been suspended yet but that day will probably come sooner than later. And on those days ... guys like Boyle, Lessard and Sill will answer the bell when needed ... being careful to stay within the rules to prevent suspensions. Our young skilled guys get more icetime than they would on a lot of other teams ... even with Lane in the lineup. Roski gets more icetime than his twin brother does in Shawinigan ... the one drafted higher than him. Andrew Roski has played 9 games here and missed a bunch due to injury ... while his brother has 7 gp in Shaw and I have no idea if he has been injured. Roski even gets PK time here ... how many rookie forwards get that elsewhere ? The only guy on our team not getting icetime is Bell ... and Lane has no affect on his icetime since Bell is a Dman. Are you suggesting that Danny Flynn doesn't know what he is doing ? Do you think Flynn would rather go with no enforcer ? lol again with the all-knowing Flynn comment... I am a fan of having a tough guy on the bench, even if he's a limited skilled 4th liner, for many reasons you mention (although I think you give his presence a bit too much weight considering he doesnt play a regular shift, hit etc). I am just saying you are arguing all the great things his presence does, but then turn around and say if he gets a suspension and/or misses a few games, its no loss. He played about 10-12 shifts vs Halifax the other night ... more than Alex MacDonald had for Halifax ... us Moncton fans were hoping to see more of macDonald. As Lane improves his conditioning and skill level he will get more icetime ... but will always be a 4th liner and the forward with least minutes played.
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