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Post by SteveUL on Nov 12, 2008 11:53:31 GMT -4
His price would be huge; 1) He is 19 and will be back and 2) It is Val D'or His price must be dropping quickly ... goalies trade value seems to be much more closely linked to what they have done lately than position players .... at this point, his play this year would make him a gamble to contending team ... you don't pay a huge price on a gamble. Maybe you make the trade as a conditional deal ... linked to his S% being above or below 0.900 on his new team ... above gets you this much at the draft ... below gets you nothing at the draft.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2008 11:55:18 GMT -4
His price must be dropping quickly ... goalies trade value seems to be much more closely linked to what they have done lately than position players .... at this point, his play this year would make him a gamble to contending team ... you don't pay a huge price on a gamble. Maybe you make the trade as a conditional deal ... linked to his S% being above or below 0.900 on his new team ... above gets you this much at the draft ... below gets you nothing at the draft. Highly doubt either team would make that type of deal.
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Post by mikeb on Nov 12, 2008 13:23:17 GMT -4
Gougeon is horrible. He always was. Yetman is better and I have seen Yetman as many times as you and Gougeon more. Don't you remember how many, many times you posted how the Titan ruined Gougeon. Yetman is an upgrade on Gougeon, but just not big enough. Rim need someone much better than both those guys. When Gougeon was 17 you saw him more than I did for half a season ... but he is now 20 and has improved since then. I don't think Gougeon is great either ... I think he is better than Yetman but not by much ... but even if he was slightly weaker the trade makes no sense ... just a shuffling of the deck chairs. Gougeon has poor technique. He flops around like a trout on the shore. Yetman is the better of the 2 IMO but like you said neither is who I'd want in nets on a contender.
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Post by mikeb on Nov 12, 2008 13:25:49 GMT -4
Gougeon is a sunk cost ... what they paid should not be relevant to their current decision ... if they decide they need to upgrade, they should do it ... take the loss on Gougeon and move on, the loss only becomes bigger, not smaller, if they keep him for the year and he torpedoes their chances ... I don't disagree with you ... but dumping Gougeon is the type of thing that gets GM's fired when they don't achieve the ultimate goal. And for that reason ... a GM is reluctant to do it. Gougeon hasn't been bad for Rimouski ... 2.67 and 0.889 ... but they could do better. I think if they are going to make a move ... Yetman is a foolish choice ... Nadeau would be the smarter choice ... or a 19 YO to open up a 20 slot for another player. Don't use goalie stats to try to win that argument. They play on different teams and Gougeon's stat of .889 on that team is appalling.
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Post by mikeb on Nov 12, 2008 13:27:55 GMT -4
His price must be dropping quickly ... goalies trade value seems to be much more closely linked to what they have done lately than position players .... at this point, his play this year would make him a gamble to contending team ... you don't pay a huge price on a gamble. Maybe you make the trade as a conditional deal ... linked to his S% being above or below 0.900 on his new team ... above gets you this much at the draft ... below gets you nothing at the draft. The rules (at least a few years ago) was that conditional trades can't be linked to performance. Only to if a player showed up or not.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 17, 2008 12:01:46 GMT -4
I don't disagree with you ... but dumping Gougeon is the type of thing that gets GM's fired when they don't achieve the ultimate goal. And for that reason ... a GM is reluctant to do it. Gougeon hasn't been bad for Rimouski ... 2.67 and 0.889 ... but they could do better. I think if they are going to make a move ... Yetman is a foolish choice ... Nadeau would be the smarter choice ... or a 19 YO to open up a 20 slot for another player. Don't use goalie stats to try to win that argument. They play on different teams and Gougeon's stat of .889 on that team is appalling. .889 is not that bad given that Rimouski is not a great defensive team. Their defense is mostly skilled and offensive.
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Post by P-O on Nov 17, 2008 12:15:45 GMT -4
How can you say Rimouski are not a great defensive team?
They play the trap and have the most defensive system along with Chicoutimi & Lewiston
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 23, 2008 10:13:57 GMT -4
Mike Kirkpatrick is St.John's best player, I can't see them trading him in anything more than a future considerations deal. 15 goals in 27 games and top faceoff guy.
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Post by Gman on Nov 23, 2008 10:28:12 GMT -4
Mike Kirkpatrick is St.John's best player, I can't see them trading him in anything more than a future considerations deal. 15 goals in 27 games and top faceoff guy. Kirkpatrick is 18, and at the rate he's improving, it's unlikely he'll be around at 20. I can't see why we would want him in exchange for MacMillan. The only thing that makes sense is if he comes as part of a package, then we turn around and flip him to a contender next year.
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Post by oilers4ever on Nov 23, 2008 13:10:46 GMT -4
When is MacMillian expected back in the line up? Really can't see them getting much for a player who has missed this much time in the last 2 seasons
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Post by Captain Obvious on Nov 23, 2008 14:05:25 GMT -4
Mike Kirkpatrick is St.John's best player, I can't see them trading him in anything more than a future considerations deal. 15 goals in 27 games and top faceoff guy. Kirkpatrick is 18, and at the rate he's improving, it's unlikely he'll be around at 20. I can't see why we would want him in exchange for MacMillan. The only thing that makes sense is if he comes as part of a package, then we turn around and flip him to a contender next year. He's undrafted and like 5'10", I'd say there is more of a chance he is there at 20 than not IMHO. Why would you want him...hmm, well he is only 18, undrafted and playing excellent both ways right now, I think any team would want him on their team.
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Post by bois on Nov 25, 2009 14:30:47 GMT -4
just for you Murph.. great reading here
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Post by Murph on Nov 25, 2009 15:20:27 GMT -4
just for you Murph.. great reading here What does any of that prove, other than you have way too much time on your hands? It's basically 6 pages, of La-la and CP going back on forth discussing MacMillian/Saint John/Anthony. For one, the market last year turned out to be significantly less than the previous 10 years. How is La-la supposed to forecast that? The thread took place 13 months ago!! Live in the past much? Second, Saint John ended up selling.... and the thread was fueled by SNB's GM talking about MacMillian. Who knows what they would have paid? The deal never happened. That was essentially the basis of the thread. What would Saint John give up to get MacMillian, and what would Patenaude accept. You're initial point.... the one you brought up today (or yesterday).... the present time.... based on actual relevant discussions..... was that Halifax fans were disapointed last year when the MacMillian deal happened, because they didn't get as much as they were hoping for (and that Knotek would be more of the same). That's what you said, right? Since you have nothing better to do, why not dig up all the poster's reactions to the value MacMillian brought in? That would prove the point you made. That was your claim just a couple posts ago, was it not?.
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Post by bois on Nov 25, 2009 15:52:12 GMT -4
didn't take much time to go find a thread entitled MacMillan trade rumours heat up Murph
the point was posters expectations for their players often don't wind up being fulfilled.... this thread showed what people were expecting for MacMillan... we all know what they actually got... and my point was the same is likely to be for Knotek... while he is your most valuable asset and only legit scorer right now.. his trade value is less than a 19 year old Canadian kid playing on the bottom feeders in Baie Comeau or Chicoutimi or Val D'or ie Sauve, Deschamps, Lagace, Bourque etc
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Post by Murph on Nov 25, 2009 16:28:22 GMT -4
his trade value is less than a 19 year old Canadian kid playing on the bottom feeders in Baie Comeau or Chicoutimi or Val D'or ie Sauve, Deschamps, Lagace, Bourque etc That's an assumption on your part, which you're basing on past history of trading in the league. Something you faulted Halifax fans for, when they projected what MacMillian would be worth this time last year. They based their values on MacMillian, going on trade deadline history. Your claim that Knotek isn't worth as much, because history would indicate euros aren't, is essentially the same thing, right? I don't personally fault you for that. That's human nature. However, if there are multiple teams out there with euro vacancies (which their are..... unknown though if Knotek would be willing to move to all of them) and only 1 high end 19 year old euro on the market (which there is), then it would seem likely that Knotek's value would be higher than traditional wisdom would say, because him being a euro, doesn't really affect the structure of the interested teams.
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