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Post by SteveUL on Dec 17, 2008 11:38:04 GMT -4
It's chosen by Hockey Canada. Not according to Hockey Canada: From yesterday's TJ: Murray (Al Murray, Head Scout for Hockey Canada) was polite, professional and courteous and wanted to make a point a few of weeks ago when he called to comment on a column that suggested Saint John Sea Dog Michael Kirkpatrick should have been considered when it came to replacing the injured Chris DiDomenico on the roster for the Canada/Russia ADT Challenge at Harbour Station.
We suggested that Kirkpatrick was not on the Hockey Canada radar because he hadn't been identified by its scouts and therefore they wouldn't look too good if he slipped through the cracks and was named to the team.
Not so, says Murray.
Murray pointed out that the rosters for the ADT Challenge, which saw the Russians face off against a team of Quebec Major Junior Hockey League all-stars in two games, were finalized with the help of general managers from around the QMJHL.
"We have a conference call with the GMs and myself, and they put forward names they'd like to see. Some leagues reward 19-year-olds and others like to put names of young players up."
Hockey Canada does have a core that it wants to see in the games but that number is usually only about 10. The rest, Murray says, is up to the league. It has nothing to do with whether they've been identified by Hockey Canada.
"We didn't see him as a viable candidate for the world juniors at this time," Murray said matter-of-factly.
When Di Domenico was injured, teammate Steven Anthony replaced him.
"These teams are chosen for the now," said Murray, who has seen all 60 major junior teams in the country play at least once this season.
"The late bloomer is always eligible to come in," he said. "It's for the immediate. We want the best players right now at this time. We don't want kids feeling that because they're not part of the [Hockey Canada] program, they have no chance. That's totally false."That description makes it an even more curious result ... how they left off guys like Barberio, Riopel, Doyle in favour of the guys that were originally announced ... and the guys added due to injuries. It is for the "immediate" ... "We want the best players right now at this time."
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Post by MikeC on Dec 17, 2008 12:01:43 GMT -4
That description makes it an even more curious result ... how they left off guys like Barberio, Riopel, Doyle in favour of the guys that were originally announced ... and the guys added due to injuries. It is for the "immediate" ... "We want the best players right now at this time." To me, it reeks of the league's doing. Danny Flynn must have put Riopel's and Barberio's name forward. I can't imagine how he wouldn't have. But to me, when the league puts in guys like Anthony, Gormley and Labrie over the players mentioned, it's like they're trying to say to the world "Hey look, we've got young players who are good enough to play in these games too, just like the OHL and WHL". But what they fail to realize, or at least care about, is that the 17 year olds that the O and W play, actually have legitimate shots at playing for Team Canada at the U20. 17 year olds like Schenn, Kane, Ellis, and Hall are lighting up their respective leagues. Steven Anthony has a half-point-per-game. And when only Team QMJHL loses to the Russian B team, it looks really bad. In 2 years, or even right now, the casual observer isn't going to know that team QMJHL left a bunch of good 18-19 year olds off in favor of younger players who will be good later on, but the casual observer will remember that team QMJHL lost, and that they have the worst record of the 3 leagues in these games.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 17, 2008 12:16:45 GMT -4
That description makes it an even more curious result ... how they left off guys like Barberio, Riopel, Doyle in favour of the guys that were originally announced ... and the guys added due to injuries. It is for the "immediate" ... "We want the best players right now at this time." To me, it reeks of the league's doing. Danny Flynn must have put Riopel's and Barberio's name forward. I can't imagine how he wouldn't have. But to me, when the league puts in guys like Anthony, Gormley and Labrie over the players mentioned, it's like they're trying to say to the world "Hey look, we've got young players who are good enough to play in these games too, just like the OHL and WHL". But what they fail to realize, or at least care about, is that the 17 year olds that the O and W play, actually have legitimate shots at playing for Team Canada at the U20. 17 year olds like Schenn, Kane, Ellis, and Hall are lighting up their respective leagues. Steven Anthony has a half-point-per-game. And when only Team QMJHL loses to the Russian B team, it looks really bad. In 2 years, or even right now, the casual observer isn't going to know that team QMJHL left a bunch of good 18-19 year olds off in favor of younger players who will be good later on, but the casual observer will remember that team QMJHL lost, and that they have the worst record of the 3 leagues in these games. Very well put.
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goon
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 465
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Post by goon on Dec 17, 2008 13:44:40 GMT -4
So add the QMJHL GM's to the NHL GM's and Hockey Canada that don't seem to think Barberio can exceed at an elite level. We all know they are wrong, largest conspiracy of all time! And Riopel. I don't know what to think of Riopel. I think he likely may have been screwed over, but than again I don't. I've seen him play many times and his stats are outstanding, but I never get that feeling he is an elite goalie like i did with the likes of Fleury, Luongo, Pavlec, Bernier, and Halak. Part of this is likely he's not as flashy as them, but the other part is he's a positional goalie playing in a good defensive system. I just get the feeling that if he took his game to the next level he would get exposed. When the teams started moving the pucks around like they can at the AHL/NHL level, I just don't know if he could keep up to that. He rarely makes those " I can't believe he just stopped that" type of saves. Either way, it would have been nice to see him get a tryout at that level to see if he's a a good goalie made to be a great goalie as a product of a system, or truly an elite goalie.
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goon
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 465
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Post by goon on Dec 17, 2008 13:46:50 GMT -4
That description makes it an even more curious result ... how they left off guys like Barberio, Riopel, Doyle in favour of the guys that were originally announced ... and the guys added due to injuries. It is for the "immediate" ... "We want the best players right now at this time." To me, it reeks of the league's doing. Danny Flynn must have put Riopel's and Barberio's name forward. I can't imagine how he wouldn't have. But to me, when the league puts in guys like Anthony, Gormley and Labrie over the players mentioned, it's like they're trying to say to the world "Hey look, we've got young players who are good enough to play in these games too, just like the OHL and WHL". But what they fail to realize, or at least care about, is that the 17 year olds that the O and W play, actually have legitimate shots at playing for Team Canada at the U20. 17 year olds like Schenn, Kane, Ellis, and Hall are lighting up their respective leagues. Steven Anthony has a half-point-per-game. And when only Team QMJHL loses to the Russian B team, it looks really bad. In 2 years, or even right now, the casual observer isn't going to know that team QMJHL left a bunch of good 18-19 year olds off in favor of younger players who will be good later on, but the casual observer will remember that team QMJHL lost, and that they have the worst record of the 3 leagues in these games. To me it also has a faint smell of Wildcat marketing/Irving prefering to market their star of the future (Gormley), rather than a couple guys that will only likely be with the Cats for one more year. I could definitely see Gormley being pushed for by the Cats.
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tal
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 327
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Post by tal on Dec 17, 2008 14:55:20 GMT -4
So add the QMJHL GM's to the NHL GM's and Hockey Canada that don't seem to think Barberio can exceed at an elite level. We all know they are wrong, largest conspiracy of all time! And Riopel. Riopel's only "problem" is that he isn't a proven winner under pressure - and if you're Hockey Canada, looking to pick a gold-medal team, and only get to pick 2 goalies - you go with goalies who have shown they perform well in that environment - U17, previous U20, etc. A large part of goaltending is mental, and I can understand a WJC coach opting for the "safe" bet in a technical sound goaltender who has shown he can perform under pressure. It doesn't mean he's better than Rio - but it's the "safer" choice. I don't agree with it - I think those of us who have seen Rio play would be comfortable with him under the microscope of the world stage - but I understand why he was passed over.
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tal
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 327
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Post by tal on Dec 17, 2008 14:58:12 GMT -4
To me it also has a faint smell of Wildcat marketing/Irving prefering to market their star of the future (Gormley), rather than a couple guys that will only likely be with the Cats for one more year. I could definitely see Gormley being pushed for by the Cats. You don't think that the #1 overall pick would be objectively considered to deserve a spot on the Q team? A #1 pick would have to be hurt or seriously tank to NOT be assured a spot on that team.
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Post by jimmy on Dec 17, 2008 15:14:47 GMT -4
To me it also has a faint smell of Wildcat marketing/Irving prefering to market their star of the future (Gormley), rather than a couple guys that will only likely be with the Cats for one more year. I could definitely see Gormley being pushed for by the Cats. You don't think that the #1 overall pick would be objectively considered to deserve a spot on the Q team? A #1 pick would have to be hurt or seriously tank to NOT be assured a spot on that team. At 16? Look Gormley is awesome for his age, but does anyone really think he is among the top 6 eligible d-men in the Q as far as Team Canada U-20 goes?
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 17, 2008 15:22:02 GMT -4
Riopel's only "problem" is that he isn't a proven winner under pressure - and if you're Hockey Canada, looking to pick a gold-medal team, and only get to pick 2 goalies - you go with goalies who have shown they perform well in that environment - U17, previous U20, etc. A large part of goaltending is mental, and I can understand a WJC coach opting for the "safe" bet in a technical sound goaltender who has shown he can perform under pressure. It doesn't mean he's better than Rio - but it's the "safer" choice. I don't agree with it - I think those of us who have seen Rio play would be comfortable with him under the microscope of the world stage - but I understand why he was passed over. Apart from Allen, there are no other Q goalies who fit that description. At the very least he should have been on the Q vs Russia roster. The other goalies invited to the final camp were all WHL.
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goon
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 465
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Post by goon on Dec 17, 2008 16:13:27 GMT -4
To me it also has a faint smell of Wildcat marketing/Irving prefering to market their star of the future (Gormley), rather than a couple guys that will only likely be with the Cats for one more year. I could definitely see Gormley being pushed for by the Cats. You don't think that the #1 overall pick would be objectively considered to deserve a spot on the Q team? A #1 pick would have to be hurt or seriously tank to NOT be assured a spot on that team. That makes no sense at all. The WJHC is essentially a 19/18 year old's tournament (more 17 year olds are getting looking now because of more rookies jumping straight to the NHL as a result of the salary cap). 16 year old's are generally not advanced enough skillwise or physically to participate. A few exceptional players make it at 16 (Crosby, Boumeester, Spezza, etc.), but they never have a big role and are usually just used on the PP. Gormley isn't even a top 10 dman in the Q yet. Hockey Canada has 3 more years to look at Gormley, just because he was the first overall pick in the Q doesn't mean he should get an automatic invite to the Canada/Russia games. I bet the Cats were wanting him there though to create some buzz for the team even though their likely were a couple other players that probably deserved it more.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 17, 2008 16:25:09 GMT -4
You don't think that the #1 overall pick would be objectively considered to deserve a spot on the Q team? A #1 pick would have to be hurt or seriously tank to NOT be assured a spot on that team. That makes no sense at all. The WJHC is essentially a 19/18 year old's tournament (more 17 year olds are getting looking now because of more rookies jumping straight to the NHL as a result of the salary cap). 16 year old's are generally not advanced enough skillwise or physically to participate. A few exceptional players make it at 16 (Crosby, Boumeester, Spezza, etc.), but they never have a big role and are usually just used on the PP. Gormley isn't even a top 10 dman in the Q yet. Hockey Canada has 3 more years to look at Gormley, just because he was the first overall pick in the Q doesn't mean he should get an automatic invite to the Canada/Russia games. I bet the Cats were wanting him there though to create some buzz for the team even though their likely were a couple other players that probably deserved it more. I hope it was not the Cats pushing Gormley ahead of Barberio and Riopel, that would be a lack of respect on their part for their top players. Gormley had no chance at making this year's team. Barberio and Rio could have earned at least an invite to camp with strong showings.
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goon
Blue-Chip Prospect
Posts: 465
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Post by goon on Dec 17, 2008 16:30:45 GMT -4
That makes no sense at all. The WJHC is essentially a 19/18 year old's tournament (more 17 year olds are getting looking now because of more rookies jumping straight to the NHL as a result of the salary cap). 16 year old's are generally not advanced enough skillwise or physically to participate. A few exceptional players make it at 16 (Crosby, Boumeester, Spezza, etc.), but they never have a big role and are usually just used on the PP. Gormley isn't even a top 10 dman in the Q yet. Hockey Canada has 3 more years to look at Gormley, just because he was the first overall pick in the Q doesn't mean he should get an automatic invite to the Canada/Russia games. I bet the Cats were wanting him there though to create some buzz for the team even though their likely were a couple other players that probably deserved it more. I hope it was not the Cats pushing Gormley ahead of Barberio and Riopel, that would be a lack of respect on their part for their top players. Gormley had no chance at making this year's team. Barberio and Rio could have earned at least an invite to camp with strong showings. I don't know if they did or didn't, but I can see the posibility that could have happend and also see why it would have happened (create some buzz for the team). If the GM's of the Q had a say in this, I can't see for the life of me how Gormley was included over Barberio/Riopel unless their team was pushing for it. On a side note, I don't think either 1 of the 3 would have made it.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Dec 17, 2008 16:37:42 GMT -4
I hope it was not the Cats pushing Gormley ahead of Barberio and Riopel, that would be a lack of respect on their part for their top players. Gormley had no chance at making this year's team. Barberio and Rio could have earned at least an invite to camp with strong showings. I don't know if they did or didn't, but I can see the posibility that could have happend and also see why it would have happened (create some buzz for the team). If the GM's of the Q had a say in this, I can't see for the life of me how Gormley was included over Barberio/Riopel unless their team was pushing for it. On a side note, I don't think either 1 of the 3 would have made it. A lot of people said Cormier and DiDomenico had no chance also, Rio and Barberio are having much better years than those 2. They at least deserved a chance to be seen in the Q-Russia games...that's the part that's a travesty.
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Post by mikeb on Dec 18, 2008 8:11:21 GMT -4
I don't know what to think of Riopel. I think he likely may have been screwed over, but than again I don't. I've seen him play many times and his stats are outstanding, but I never get that feeling he is an elite goalie like i did with the likes of Fleury, Luongo, Pavlec, Bernier, and Halak. Part of this is likely he's not as flashy as them, but the other part is he's a positional goalie playing in a good defensive system. I just get the feeling that if he took his game to the next level he would get exposed. When the teams started moving the pucks around like they can at the AHL/NHL level, I just don't know if he could keep up to that. He rarely makes those " I can't believe he just stopped that" type of saves. Either way, it would have been nice to see him get a tryout at that level to see if he's a a good goalie made to be a great goalie as a product of a system, or truly an elite goalie. Two other CHL goalies played the same way in junior, Corey Crawford and Carey Price. I think they turned out okay.
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Post by mikeb on Dec 18, 2008 8:19:01 GMT -4
I hope it was not the Cats pushing Gormley ahead of Barberio and Riopel, that would be a lack of respect on their part for their top players. Gormley had no chance at making this year's team. Barberio and Rio could have earned at least an invite to camp with strong showings. I don't know if they did or didn't, but I can see the posibility that could have happend and also see why it would have happened (create some buzz for the team). If the GM's of the Q had a say in this, I can't see for the life of me how Gormley was included over Barberio/Riopel unless their team was pushing for it. On a side note, I don't think either 1 of the 3 would have made it. Why would pushing Gormley create more buzz than pushing the top goalie in the Q? It makes no sense. By pushing Barberio and Riopel they'd have just as much publicity. I seriously doubt that the Wildcats would insult their best players. I would be out of character for them. I think you're more than way off base with that SPECULATION. And I'm not even a Wildcat fan. (I was hoping for a CB regulation time win last night but not for any reason that the average fan would think of)
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