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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 17:29:52 GMT -4
As per an article in the paper yesterday the edza east rep Louis Gaudet stated that there are big changes coming along at the midget major level and that mctn will have 2 midget major teams and then went on to add there would be 3 bantam major as the feeder teams for the midget major programs. This would be a very bold move coming from HNB and the midget and bantam major leagues. I think they should go 2 steps further and limit the amount of 3 yr kids in midget major and limit the amount of 20 year olds in Jr A this will emphasis development in midget and Jr A and graduate kids into major junior and the cis. This might even keep the local talent here at home. The Junior A teams would be against that. It would put them at a disadvantage with all the other junior A leagues across the country. Yes I know they would be against it but that doesn't make it wrong, the teams are principally looking at this from a business perspective not an development perspective with the end goal to graduate their kids to the CIS ranks.
Using bantam and midget and Jr A hockey to graduate kids to the next level should be the end goal shouldn't it  ??
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 30, 2017 18:05:56 GMT -4
As per an article in the paper yesterday the edza east rep Louis Gaudet stated that there are big changes coming along at the midget major level and that mctn will have 2 midget major teams and then went on to add there would be 3 bantam major as the feeder teams for the midget major programs. This would be a very bold move coming from HNB and the midget and bantam major leagues. I think they should go 2 steps further and limit the amount of 3 yr kids in midget major and limit the amount of 20 year olds in Jr A this will emphasis development in midget and Jr A and graduate kids into major junior and the cis. This might even keep the local talent here at home. The Junior A teams would be against that. It would put them at a disadvantage with all the other junior A leagues across the country. Plus HNB has no power over teams in NS and PEI. |
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Post by interested on Mar 30, 2017 18:29:42 GMT -4
The bid process has brought out all kinds of crazy ideas. No way will there me more than four teams in NB. And Miramichi and the Island teams will always struggle, but the point really is development. Top players need to play with top players. Two Moncton teams would be as thin as the two Island teams, and that benefits no one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 19:17:22 GMT -4
The bid process has brought out all kinds of crazy ideas. No way will there me more than four teams in NB. And Miramichi and the Island teams will always struggle, but the point really is development. Top players need to play with top players. Two Moncton teams would be as thin as the two Island teams, and that benefits no one. 2 mctn teams would create more opportunities for kids to play major midget in the area thus encouraging player development and regional player retention. I don't get your argument about top players need to play against top players, the 2 mctn teams would play against the same teams and players as everybody else and it would achieve more parity across the league. It would also resolve the 1 regional power house issue statue quo. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 19:19:33 GMT -4
If this goes ahead what do you think will happen to the high school ranks ?
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Post by yurireeka on Mar 30, 2017 19:55:34 GMT -4
Hasnt been mentioned in the thread thus far, but the best solution in Canada would be to change the age of the leagues back to close to what they were before:
Junior 17*.18.19 ( UA16, OA20)
Midget 16.17*
Bantam 14.15
PeeWee 12.13
Atom 10.11
Novice 8.9.10
Initiate II 6.7
Initiate 1 4.5
What this does, of course is makes the Jr leagues draft out of Bantam, where the teams are plentiful and less subject to ice time issues as the players are the oldest in their age category not the youngest. It also gives kids 1 more year of skill dev before contact in Bantam, and 1 more year to level the physical playing field for that.
You will never be able to come up with an umbrella solution to solve all the issues with 15yo being in Major Midget unless you get them out. There will always be exceptions every year, but the vast majority of players would benefit from a different model where they get the most ice.
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Post by Ragin' Cajun on Mar 30, 2017 20:12:03 GMT -4
Personally I'd like to see this. I tend to think the flyers are generally a bit too strong and don't use their 15s as much as they could. I think in terms of player development it'd the right move. Halifax has 3 major midget teams, so I think Moncton can probably handle 2. Greater Moncton population is around 144k, greater Halifax is 403k. 3-1 ratio makes sense The Moncton population base to make 2 teams is much larger than greater Moncton. You cannot use population. You have to take a ratio of available players in the pool to the amount of teams made. the last several years there have not been very many first year players make the team let alone play. Many of them are going the prep school or high school route and once they leave they sometimes do not come back. So in the end there are only 3 to 5 first year players on the Flyers and the rest of the top talent for that birth year has play elsewhere. Question is do they develop elsewhere as well as they would at the Major level. |
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Post by Ragin' Cajun on Mar 30, 2017 20:28:14 GMT -4
I have kids in Dieppe minor hockey and I can tell you that Dieppe has this dilution issue at almost every level of hockey. The problem is not really the association - it is the parents being a victim of their own arrogance. For example even in Atom hockey there is AA team, A, and 2 B teams. I hear constant complaints from parents that those teams are getting destroyed at tournaments. You have all these competitive teams that are so diluted that they can't compete and then the house league program has no talent left over to compete either. The association wants to fix this but the parents keep saying "No no no my kid is too good for house league, we want more competitive teams." There has been a back an forth the last 5 years. 2 years ago in Pee Wee they had too many comp teams(4) and could not compete, the year before it was too few(2). The province has pretty accurate guidelines, if you have more than x players you should have so many competitive teams. I agree that some of this is the parents, especially at a young age(Pee Wee and Atom) where they spend a fortune on camps and spring hockey without realizing that they mostly just take the kids with parents willing to pay the $$$. Unfortunetly the guidelines in the HNB provincial regs has not mandated the amount of teams an association makes or the level the make them at for the last 2 years. Even before this it was not checked or enforced. In NS it is simple math, x players registered in a level then you must do that. no questions asked. Dieppe can compete if they respect the stream of having the proper amount of kids. the real issue in Dieppe is no ice time to develop the kids. Comp temas in other associations get 3 hours of ice per week as opposed to half that in dieppe! |
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Post by Ragin' Cajun on Mar 30, 2017 20:36:21 GMT -4
Hasnt been mentioned in the thread thus far, but the best solution in Canada would be to change the age of the leagues back to close to what they were before: Junior 17*.18.19 ( UA16, OA20) Midget 16.17* Bantam 14.15 PeeWee 12.13 Atom 10.11 Novice 8.9.10 Initiate II 6.7 Initiate 1 4.5 What this does, of course is makes the Jr leagues draft out of Bantam, where the teams are plentiful and less subject to ice time issues as the players are the oldest in their age category not the youngest. It also gives kids 1 more year of skill dev before contact in Bantam, and 1 more year to level the physical playing field for that. You will never be able to come up with an umbrella solution to solve all the issues with 15yo being in Major Midget unless you get them out. There will always be exceptions every year, but the vast majority of players would benefit from a different model where they get the most ice. this would go a long way to fix the problem. bottom line is that it is tough for first year kids to find a good spot to play. 3 years at this age is a big gap. |
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Post by Citris on Mar 30, 2017 22:57:10 GMT -4
From what I hear, Minor Midget could be a good solution. It will be a similar system to what they have in Quebec with Midget AAA and Midget Espoir, the elite 16s will still play Major Midget, but the bubble guys will play Minor Midget, where they'd get a bunch more ice time, as teams will be made up of 18 15 year olds and 2 16s.
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Post by interested on Mar 31, 2017 6:58:09 GMT -4
From what I hear, Minor Midget could be a good solution. It will be a similar system to what they have in Quebec with Midget AAA and Midget Espoir, the elite 16s will still play Major Midget, but the bubble guys will play Minor Midget, where they'd get a bunch more ice time, as teams will be made up of 18 15 year olds and 2 16s. It was tried, for many many years, and failed. Kids who don't make major midget should go to minor to develop, but they don't. The go to high school teams, and play in front of crowds. The last several years NB had midget minor, the team's were mostly players who got cut from both major midget and high school. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Mar 31, 2017 7:02:59 GMT -4
From what I hear, Minor Midget could be a good solution. It will be a similar system to what they have in Quebec with Midget AAA and Midget Espoir, the elite 16s will still play Major Midget, but the bubble guys will play Minor Midget, where they'd get a bunch more ice time, as teams will be made up of 18 15 year olds and 2 16s. It was tried, for many many years, and failed. Kids who don't make major midget should go to minor to develop, but they don't. The go to high school teams, and play in front of crowds. The last several years NB had midget minor, the team's were mostly players who got cut from both major midget and high school. There are a lot of guys that played HS at 15 then MAAA at 16 and went on to play in the Q. The key is they have to play regularly. |
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Post by interested on Mar 31, 2017 7:07:33 GMT -4
The bid process has brought out all kinds of crazy ideas. No way will there me more than four teams in NB. And Miramichi and the Island teams will always struggle, but the point really is development. Top players need to play with top players. Two Moncton teams would be as thin as the two Island teams, and that benefits no one. 2 mctn teams would create more opportunities for kids to play major midget in the area thus encouraging player development and regional player retention. I don't get your argument about top players need to play against top players, the 2 mctn teams would play against the same teams and players as everybody else and it would achieve more parity across the league. It would also resolve the 1 regional power house issue statue quo. Power houses don't hurt anyone, except parents who get caught up in their children winning or losing. I did say development requires players play against top players, and it does. In every game and sport. I also said players should play with top players. Little Johnny on the first line is fun, and great for his parents. But he's usually better off, developmentally, on the third line and battling for ice. Elite players have to learn intensity, and they don't learn it being one of three to five players on the team who can play. Major midget hockey is not and should not be about "creating more opportunities for kids to play". That's rec hockey. I'd change some things, if I could, just wouldn't grow the number of teams. I'd lengthen the season, and Telus Cup be damned. Development requires play, and elite teams ending their season a month or more before rec teams is ridiculous. I'd also mandate a minimum number of first-years per team, and a max number of thirds. Just saying: we can improve development, but making it so every Little Johnny makes a team is not the way. |
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Post by viper on Mar 31, 2017 7:31:33 GMT -4
2 mctn teams would create more opportunities for kids to play major midget in the area thus encouraging player development and regional player retention. I don't get your argument about top players need to play against top players, the 2 mctn teams would play against the same teams and players as everybody else and it would achieve more parity across the league. It would also resolve the 1 regional power house issue statue quo. Power houses don't hurt anyone, except parents who get caught up in their children winning or losing. I did say development requires players play against top players, and it does. In every game and sport. I also said players should play with top players. Little Johnny on the first line is fun, and great for his parents. But he's usually better off, developmentally, on the third line and battling for ice. Elite players have to learn intensity, and they don't learn it being one of three to five players on the team who can play. Major midget hockey is not and should not be about "creating more opportunities for kids to play". That's rec hockey. I'd change some things, if I could, just wouldn't grow the number of teams. I'd lengthen the season, and Telus Cup be damned. Development requires play, and elite teams ending their season a month or more before rec teams is ridiculous. I'd also mandate a minimum number of first-years per team, and a max number of thirds. Just saying: we can improve development, but making it so every Little Johnny makes a team is not the way. Lengthening the season is not going to happen. Rinks are not going to keep their ice in for one team. Imagine the cost of that. And the Telus Cup is not going anywhere. Adding a team in Moncton isn't making it so everyone can play. Looking at the number of teams in NS and PEI and the population sizes it just makes sense. |
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Post by jimmy on Mar 31, 2017 7:49:39 GMT -4
Power houses don't hurt anyone, except parents who get caught up in their children winning or losing. I did say development requires players play against top players, and it does. In every game and sport. I also said players should play with top players. Little Johnny on the first line is fun, and great for his parents. But he's usually better off, developmentally, on the third line and battling for ice. Elite players have to learn intensity, and they don't learn it being one of three to five players on the team who can play. Major midget hockey is not and should not be about "creating more opportunities for kids to play". That's rec hockey. I'd change some things, if I could, just wouldn't grow the number of teams. I'd lengthen the season, and Telus Cup be damned. Development requires play, and elite teams ending their season a month or more before rec teams is ridiculous. I'd also mandate a minimum number of first-years per team, and a max number of thirds. Just saying: we can improve development, but making it so every Little Johnny makes a team is not the way. Lengthening the season is not going to happen. Rinks are not going to keep their ice in for one team. Imagine the cost of that. And the Telus Cup is not going anywhere. Adding a team in Moncton isn't making it so everyone can play. Looking at the number of teams in NS and PEI and the population sizes it just makes sense. Rink ice isn't the issue - plenty of rinks have ice in well into the spring. His point is, if you look at the major midget league, there are teams (like Fredericton) whose season has been over for almost a month now ... meanwhile rec teams are just finishing up last weekend or in some cases this weekend. I don't think it is reasonable to expect the Telus Cup to move ... but maybe the playoff format needs to be re-examined so as to keep all teams playing longer ... maybe add two weeks to the regular season, and cut the playoffs back to best of three or five from the current best of seven (technically first to 8 points, but essentially best of seven). Depending how it all shakes out, perhaps the boundaries get re-jigged as well - if Miramichi moves to Bathurst and they add a second team in Moncton, maybe the Rexton area players go back to Moncton as they used to until they were re-allocated to Miramichi a few years back to try and even things. |
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