What's Old is New Again

[yoyomamajoe]

Dec 1, 2019 20:31:30 GMT -4 juliansteed said:

Dec 1, 2019 19:17:56 GMT -4 Slap Shooter said:

This thread could have also been called fire Georgie or both.

I was happy with the work that Trevor had done up until this past draft but since then he has made some bad decisions.

I think his decisions at the draft were wrong. Taking all of the NCAA guys were wasted picks and Roy. I know it's a little early to say that Roy is a bust but he does not look like a first overall pick. I hope he proves me wrong and has a better second half.

Then he drafts another 17 year old d man in the Euro draft instead of taking a high end Forward.

He should have brought in at least one very good 19 or 20 year old d man.

He should have hired a proven coach to work with the defense. Someone that has played the position.

And if all of those reasons are not good enough then what about his record as president on the business side. Attendance continues to get worse every game.

Edit:
I must add that I should give him credit for signing Patenaude. He has looked good his last couple of games.

Also the team has been playing better of late.

Hard to fault Georgie for taking the guy who was rated #1 most of the year. Most GMs would have taken him. How he's being developed so far leaves a bit to be desired but is another matter. I think he's being under-used and should have had some stints on the top 2 lines. But I don't recall anyone complaining about the pick at the time. If anything, I remember people being relieved.

From what I heard from multiple independent sources, there is a very good chance of at least one of the high profile NCAA guys reporting next season. And if we did not take him when we had this chance, there was a strong possibility of a certain provincial rival doing so and he would have been just as likely to have reported there. People would have been calling for Georgie's head if that happened. I'm willing to wait to see how that draft plays out before judging him too much either way for that one.

I was disappointed we weren't able to find a better 19 year old somewhere to play D but let's not forget that 2 veteran D no-showed at training camp for whatever reason. Roy is 20 so no guarantee there would have been a spot for him since we already have 3 good 20s but at least he brought in that option. Hard to say how Sibley would have fit into this group but I thought he looked pretty good defensively at 16 and 17 on some not so great teams so he could have been exactly what was needed. Unfortunately by the time he learned they weren't coming, options were limited. I'll see what he does to address it at the Christmas trade period when more options should be available to him.

I'm not sure bringing in an experienced D (19 or 20) is going to lift these boys to a higher level. They tried that last year with Campoli and at Christmas by bringing in Gagne and they were considered good, experienced D. It didn't bring the stability nor lifted the young guys to better results.
It's how the boys are being coached. Always letting the other team touch the puck first and hoping to poke check the puck away. Not going into the corners to retrieve pucks. Being skated by as if they were standing still by the opponents, leaving the path to the goal. And that time after time after time. Coaches should pick up on that and correct it.

[Score]

Interesting the way things are going in SJ with so many high profile players.

Is Stefan Legein still there behind the bench? Any thoughts on him and what he brings ...or doesn't bring to the team.

I remember when they signed Patenaude there was a lot of hype...especially with his play at the 2019 Hlinka Gretzky Cup. How has he been this season to date?

[hockeywatcher]

This started last year when the young  - new players wanted to run the team and the dressing room.When young hockey players are walking away because they are not getting coached and or played, management has to look at the reasons why....LOOK WITHIN.. Its the job of the coach to teach these young men to play at the this and the next level. Stop collecting a paycheck and start coaching. This goes for management also. Stop promising the world to get players to come. Make a great development program and the kids and there parents will come.

[Slap Shooter]

Dec 2, 2019 8:38:17 GMT -4 Score said:

Interesting the way things are going in SJ with so many high profile players.

Is Stefan Legein still there behind the bench? Any thoughts on him and what he brings ...or doesn't bring to the team.

I remember when they signed Patenaude there was a lot of hype...especially with his play at the 2019 Hlinka Gretzky Cup. How has he been this season to date?

Patenaude got off to a rocky start and had a couple of bad games and then got hurt and was out for a few weeks. His last two starts have been wins and he has looked good.

Can't really comment on Stefan Legin's coaching abilities.

[juliansteed]

Dec 2, 2019 7:37:31 GMT -4 yoyomamajoe said:

Dec 1, 2019 20:31:30 GMT -4 juliansteed said:

Hard to fault Georgie for taking the guy who was rated #1 most of the year. Most GMs would have taken him. How he's being developed so far leaves a bit to be desired but is another matter. I think he's being under-used and should have had some stints on the top 2 lines. But I don't recall anyone complaining about the pick at the time. If anything, I remember people being relieved.

From what I heard from multiple independent sources, there is a very good chance of at least one of the high profile NCAA guys reporting next season. And if we did not take him when we had this chance, there was a strong possibility of a certain provincial rival doing so and he would have been just as likely to have reported there. People would have been calling for Georgie's head if that happened. I'm willing to wait to see how that draft plays out before judging him too much either way for that one.

I was disappointed we weren't able to find a better 19 year old somewhere to play D but let's not forget that 2 veteran D no-showed at training camp for whatever reason. Roy is 20 so no guarantee there would have been a spot for him since we already have 3 good 20s but at least he brought in that option. Hard to say how Sibley would have fit into this group but I thought he looked pretty good defensively at 16 and 17 on some not so great teams so he could have been exactly what was needed. Unfortunately by the time he learned they weren't coming, options were limited. I'll see what he does to address it at the Christmas trade period when more options should be available to him.

I'm not sure bringing in an experienced D (19 or 20) is going to lift these boys to a higher level. They tried that last year with Campoli and at Christmas by bringing in Gagne and they were considered good, experienced D. It didn't bring the stability nor lifted the young guys to better results.
It's how the boys are being coached. Always letting the other team touch the puck first and hoping to poke check the puck away. Not going into the corners to retrieve pucks. Being skated by as if they were standing still by the opponents, leaving the path to the goal. And that time after time after time. Coaches should pick up on that and correct it.

Well I was responding to someone else's claim that Georgie should have brought in an experienced d-man for this season, and the fact that he did not as being part if the reason maybe he should be fired as well, so given the context all that is kind of beside the point.

That being said, I disagree that the Sea Dogs wouldn't be better with a veteran d-man joining them. Campoli was with them since the start last year so we have nothing to compare them to but the team played significantly better in the 2nd half after acquiring Gagne. Conversely, think back to 5 years ago and how much worse the team played in the 2nd half after trading away Leblanc. Coaching is also an issue for reasons you've stated but the 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

[ysj28]

Dec 2, 2019 8:38:17 GMT -4 Score said:

Interesting the way things are going in SJ with so many high profile players.

Is Stefan Legein still there behind the bench? Any thoughts on him and what he brings ...or doesn't bring to the team.

I remember when they signed Patenaude there was a lot of hype...especially with his play at the 2019 Hlinka Gretzky Cup. How has he been this season to date?

Patenaude had a slow start - adjusting to the league I assume. But since he’s come back from injury he’s been playing well. He had first star honours last night. He seems to be playing with more confidence now.

[Briwhel]

Dixon was fired this morning

[alpagino]

SAINT JOHN, NB - The Saint John Sea Dogs announced today that Head Coach Josh Dixon has been relieved of his coaching duties. Associate Coach Jeff Cowan has been named the Club’s interim Head Coach.

"These are the toughest days because you hate to see good people go. Josh is a consummate professional, he’s well-liked in the organization, and he works tirelessly at his craft” said Sea Dogs President & General Manager, Trevor Georgie. “This was a check-in point for us and after almost 30 games this season, we aren’t where we need to be as a team, and collectively we decided that it was time for a change.”

“We want to thank Josh for all the time and energy he put into this team the past two and half seasons. He is one of the hardest working people that I have had the pleasure of working with and will surely have future opportunities in hockey.”

Jeff Cowan joined the Sea Dogs as Assistant Coach to Mike Kelly in 2013-2014. He won a President Cup as an Assistant Coach in 2016-2017 and was promoted to Associate Coach in 2017-2018.

“Jeff has been behind the bench with us for seven seasons as an assistant coach or associate coach. He has worked under four different head coaches, we won a President Cup together in 2017, and now want to give him the opportunity to lead behind the bench and in the room. He has lots of playing experience and life experience that he can share with our young group. He has lived the highs and lows of a pro hockey player and knows what it takes.”

As a player, Cowan suited up for 444 NHL games with the Calgary Flames, Atlanta Thrashers, Los Angeles Kings, and Vancouver Canucks. He also played 417 AHL games, mostly with the Saint John Flames. His junior career included two seasons with the Guelph Storm and one season as Captain of the Barrie Colts.

“We will be evaluating as we go and take our time on deciding on our coaching staff. We will be rigorous in our due-diligence to ensure that we have the right group in place to take the next step in our evolution - winning, and leading this team to our next Memorial Cup.”

In parts of three seasons under Dixon, the Sea Dogs posted a record of 39-108-12-6 in 165 regular season games. They failed to make the playoffs during that time.

No other changes to the Sea Dogs coaching staff will be made at this time.

[Briwhel]

I feel bad about the situation because it is never easy to see someone leave, but his entire coaching strategy changed this year and I don't know why. We went from forechecking and rolling four lines to trapping and playing top heavy.

We still need someone to coach the D but I'd be okay with seeing what Cowan can do. Legein appears to be our X's and O's coach.

[Slap Shooter]

Hopefully Jeff can motivate these guys and use them in better situations and get them winning some more hockey games. We need to see more out of some of these guys. Hopefully this move will turn things. IMO there is lots of blame to go around Coach, players, GM.

[ldub23]

While I feel sorry that Josh Dixon lost his job - he was always pleasant and engaging when we spoke - it was clear to so many that a change was needed.

The two most disappointing losses this season were blowing a 5-0 lead in Cape Breton and then the kick in the guts by blowing a 3-0 lead against Shawinigan - arguably the Sea Dogs biggest rival in Quebec and the team most closely aligned in development cycles. If the Sea Dogs had won both of them plus one or two others, the team would actually be where most expected them to be in the standings.

I'd love to see a coach like Guy Boucher brought in as head coach. If the Sea Dogs are going to attract high-end recruits, I believe that their parents and advisors want to see a coach with a proven record at the helm.

[ldub23]

Dec 2, 2019 9:46:19 GMT -4 Briwhel said:

I feel bad about the situation because it is never easy to see someone leave, but his entire coaching strategy changed this year and I don't know why. We went from forechecking and rolling four lines to trapping and playing top heavy.

We still need someone to coach the D but I'd be okay with seeing what Cowan can do. Legein appears to be our X's and O's coach.

I agree, especially about the need for a defence coach. I cannot comment on Stefan Legein either way though.

[hockeywatcher]

We always feel so bad for the coach when he gets fired but we have to remember these young hockey players are trying to make it as professional hockey players and its the coaches job to help them get there. Sitting young players in the audience all year certainly doesn't help those players chance... This is not only a business for the coaches and management...its also a job for the players.

[juliansteed]

Dec 2, 2019 10:11:22 GMT -4 ldub23 said:

Dec 2, 2019 9:46:19 GMT -4 Briwhel said:

I feel bad about the situation because it is never easy to see someone leave, but his entire coaching strategy changed this year and I don't know why. We went from forechecking and rolling four lines to trapping and playing top heavy.

We still need someone to coach the D but I'd be okay with seeing what Cowan can do. Legein appears to be our X's and O's coach.

I agree, especially about the need for a defence coach. I cannot comment on Stefan Legein either way though.

One of the bright spots of the team has been the PP. Apparently Legein is the PP coach.

With Cowan only named as interim coach, it might be hard to find someone to become the D coach not knowing when Cowan might return to that role. Ideally Cowan would be named new head coach without "interim" in front of the title so that a permanent assistant to work with the D could be hired. Maybe since Randy Jones is local they can bring him in to at least help in practice as I believe he did the last time Cowan was interim coach before the 2017-2018 season.

[radarc]

Dec 2, 2019 10:41:07 GMT -4 juliansteed said:

Dec 2, 2019 10:11:22 GMT -4 ldub23 said:

I agree, especially about the need for a defence coach. I cannot comment on Stefan Legein either way though.

One of the bright spots of the team has been the PP. Apparently Legein is the PP coach.

With Cowan only named as interim coach, it might be hard to find someone to become the D coach not knowing when Cowan might return to that role. Ideally Cowan would be named new head coach without "interim" in front of the title so that a permanent assistant to work with the D could be hired. Maybe since Randy Jones is local they can bring him in to at least help in practice as I believe he did the last time Cowan was interim coach before the 2017-2018 season.

Randy Jones is coaching in Ontario with the Brockville Bears. Scratch him from the list.